Vulcan Auto Pilot
Printed From: Just Flight Forum
Category: Just Flight Products
Forum Name: Avro Vulcan B Mk. 2
Forum Description: Discussion area for Avro Vulcan B Mk. 2
URL: http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=32556
Printed Date: 18 Apr 2024 at 8:28pm
Topic: Vulcan Auto Pilot
Posted By: petesmiffy
Subject: Vulcan Auto Pilot
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 8:41am
|
For a new release, this aircraft has a remarkable lack of bugs. However, I cannot get the AP ALT Hold to work. Is it a bug, or is it me missing something? Is there a correlation between the AP and the MSF selector? Do the PFCs and auto-trims or artificial feel switches have anything to do with ALT Hold?
|
Replies:
Posted By: Rich
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 4:29pm
|
Hi, I an confirm that the AP ALT hold does have a bug and it will be fixed in the update that will be released today/tomorrow.
Thanks ------------- http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Just-Flight/15266573498" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: buspelle
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 4:41pm
|
Lovley Rich! Thanks! |
Posted By: petesmiffy
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 4:59pm
| Thanks |
Posted By: Chuck_Owl
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 5:06pm
Did you also notice that you can't click on the DIVE/CLIMB knob control for the AP? |
Rich wrote:Posted By: Voice of Reason
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 11:12am
|
That update is now live, you just need to re-download the full product from your accounts. Changes made: - New custom sounds added (bomb doors, air brakes and entrance door) - Non-functional click spots on some controls (FSX only) - fixed - Autopilot ALT/IAS clickspot - fixed - XH558 ATC_ID incorrect - fixed - Bomb doors can now be operated using the 'Water rudder (up/down)' control assignment - Bomb door animation speed increased to better match real aircraft - Cabin temperature control (right console) can now be used for manual selection of temperature. Mouse wheel up/down is used to toggle the switch between AUTO and MANUAL, and left/right click is used to move the switch between the COLD and HOT position. - GPS mode can now be selected by rotating the navigation selector (centre instrument panel) to the REMOTE position. Any other position selects NAV mode. - Cockpit lighting can now be selected on at any time of day using either of the white flood light switches Hope that helps guys. More updates soon I believe |
Posted By: WarHorse47
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 2:53pm
|
How does that impact the K2 Expansion? Does that need to be reinstalled? --WH |
Posted By: Oskar3058
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 10:27pm
| Great model well done indeed. However, have used the update and nothing has changed. Changing nav mode to remote doesn’t work as it still just defaults to hdg mode. Still no altitude hold or ability to to use the climb or descend function. I don’t think I will be alone I think. Great product despite the bugs in it |
Posted By: Chuck_Owl
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 3:37am
|
At the moment, the Alt Hold mode creates excessive pitch oscillations which always end up in an "Aircraft Overstressed". The AP is currently completely unusable. Could a developer give an example of the autopilot operation to see if there's something wrong I'm doing on my side (a simple heading select and altitude hold) and if the pitch oscillations are a mistake on my part or a real bug? Another point: the READY and ENGAGED indications on the Autopilot Elevator Servo Load gauge don't seem to work correctly. When the Autopilot panel shows the READY MI, I get the "ENGAGED" indication on the Elevator Servo Load gauge. When I disengage the AP, the ENGAGED switch still works. |
Posted By: Oskar3058
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 1:44pm
| Just redone a complete clean install into p3dv4 with the latest version. Still no joy on alt hold at all or the ability to hold gps course using the way that you said. Maybe it’s just p3dv4 if so then it’s not compatible. Sitting in the hanger now until you make it work to a satisfactory level |
Posted By: CavalierDuck
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2018 at 8:35pm
|
I can get the ALT HOLD to work in a fashion in P3D v4.3. However, you have to bring the aircraft level and trimmed, and engage ALT HOLD when VS is no more than probably +/- 50 FPM. Otherwise, the AP has to hunt for the altitude, which results in an oscillation of increasing amplitude until disaster strikes. I don't know how well ALT HOLD functioned in the actual aircraft, but this is more than a bit tricky to operate in the simulator. Once the altitude has been acquired though, it has held it well over several hundreds of miles flown including through some tight turns. I note that it doesn't look as though the autopilot pitch control switch (dive/climb) is implemented; at least, there aren't any working clickspots on it. My switch is permanently pegged at Climb, but it appears to be inop. Like one or two others I'm also seeing odd behaviour from the Autopilot trim indicator / elevator servo load gauge; not quite sure what to make of it yet. The gauge seems to be indicating trim set well back, and I haven't seen it change under any circumstances. I can trim the aircraft fine manually though. All these issues involve AP-controlled elevator trim so there might be a theme here. These issues aside though, it's a wonderful model and I'm thoroughly enjoying sitting in that cockpit finding out all of the quirks of the Vulcan. The flight model takes a little getting used to, but I was very impressed when I was able to perform a landing with aerodynamic braking almost the whole length of the runway at Waddington! I can imagine that behaviour took some effort to achieve. So thank you and congratulations to all the project members at Just Flight. |
Posted By: Martyn
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2018 at 9:30am
|
- We are looking into the altitude hold issue - The dive/climb and bank selectors are currently inop but will be added - We are fixing the autopilot indicator on the centre instrument panel Glad to hear you are enjoying the aircraft! Thanks Martyn ------------- Martyn Just Flight Ltd |
Posted By: Oskar3058
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2018 at 11:21am
| Have just installed new update 1.02. Have tried but still no alt hold. Only holds where you trim it. Constant adjustments needed so effectively nothing working still. Absolutely no way that it will also hold a gps course. So can you please tell what I am doing wrong as it's not working for me as per instructions. Great product for buzzing control towers not for long distance. Please look at this |
Posted By: CavalierDuck
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 8:54am
|
Unfortunately I have to agree. On a test flight last night of update 1.02, alt hold still isn't usable under most circumstances. When I have more time this evening I'll open a support ticket to go through it in more detail. |
Posted By: Martyn
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 11:57am
|
The autopilot element of the FDE is still being worked on and wasn't included in the recent update. The update change log provided on the support page shows the included fixes. Anything not listed there can be considered as on-going. Thanks Martyn ------------- Martyn Just Flight Ltd |
Posted By: Oskar3058
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 4:04pm
| Thanx Martin for the info. Long haul is also my thing. The vulcan is stunning and I can appreciate the time spent producing it. I will carry on buzzing towers for the moment. |
Posted By: CavalierDuck
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 7:32pm
|
Thanks for letting us know Martyn, I'll stop wrestling with the AP! |
Posted By: Delta558
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 11:55pm
|
I think the AP alt hold problem stems from the unusual configuration of this aircraft. I have built the fde as a tailless delta - may seem obvious but the sim really does not seem to like it in many ways and I have had to work around a few areas where the obvious fix would throw something else totally out of whack. A perfect example, the pitch damping: I've had to build the real aircraft's pitch dampers into the fde. However, their response is dependant upon altitude and mach number - the latter can be allowed for, the former cannot. Simple method - increase the damping. That big wing, the lift it creates and the ground effect left it sitting nose-high and even full forward stick at 10kts wasn't enough to get it to drop. So I have increased the damping considerably for higher mach numbers, whilst leaving it at sensible levels for lower mach number (those likely to be encountered at lower altitudes). It's a balancing act, in so many ways. I think the AP will need to be adjusted quite heftily, as the default pitch mode relies on trim and the aircraft's trim amount has been adjusted down a fair bit to allow for the realistic figures used in the basic setup. I'll get to it once I am totally happy with the engine files I'm currently working through, hopefully it shouldn't take too long. Cheers, Paul.
|
Posted By: trindade
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 8:30am
I'm pretty sure this shouldn't be an easy task, so many variables to work and harmonize to replicate the real thing. Thanks for the explanation, Paul. Keep the good work.
Cheers |
Posted By: Debowing
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2018 at 7:50am
| I am enjoying the Vulcan more and more. Just need to add that yes the autopilot needs to be given a bit more 'authority' to actually hold ALT and dampen the oscillations. I think things get a bit funky as the aircraft transitions from sub sonic to trans sonic but yeah the autopilot has no authority....Even if I try and trim the aircraft perfectly the A/P holds it in a 1k FPM climb or dive and that on a good day. Please have a go at it I am sure it can be fixed. Remember there were similar issues with the BAC 111 and you managed to solve it. It's such a gorgeous aircraft it deserves to be fixed. |
Posted By: Martyn
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2018 at 1:25pm
|
Please rest assured that any remaining issues will be fixed, including the instability with altitude hold mode. Thanks Martyn ------------- Martyn Just Flight Ltd |
Posted By: Debowing
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 4:10pm
| Tried v1.04 but the autopilot is still without any authority. In fact, if engaged the plane slowly goes into a shallow irrecoverable dive. I hope for some improvement in v1.05. |
Posted By: Delta558
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2018 at 6:48pm
|
It is not in the bugfix list for v1.04 because it hasn't been fixed. Unfortunately, I have a problem with P3D on my machine and until I can fix that I'm not even going to be able to start looking at the autopilot. Sorry not to be the bearer of better news, but believe me I find it just as frustrating as you! Cheers, Paul.
|
Posted By: Gary M
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 4:03pm
|
Appreciate the issues you are having but is the autopilot problem still a consideration and if so any timescales. For me it's an issue that spoils an otherwise superb rendition of this aircraft. Regards.
|
Posted By: Delta558
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2019 at 11:36pm
|
It's definitely going to be sorted, not 'a consideration' but something which will be done. However, I have no timescale on it unfortunately. I'm struggling with a consistent CTD caused by kernelbase.dll in the system32 folder (rather than syswow64) on a 64bit Win7 install  . The CTD occurs within about the first ten minutes of loading the sim, which doesn't really give me any time to do much other than get the gear up if I'm lucky!I'm on the verge of a full re-install of Windows, but that is going to involve a mass of work (probably close on a week around my shifts) before I even look at putting the sim back in just to get to a point where I can do anything with it. I understand your frustration with this - the Vulcan has always been my favourite aircraft; during development, I've had the opportunity to play with 655 at Wellesbourne, chat with several Vulcan pilots and use all of that to help get it into the sim. I haven't yet managed a full circuit in it since release  .Cheers, Paul.
|
Posted By: trindade
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2019 at 8:53am
| Paul, have you tried to rebuild your P3D CFG file and delete the shaders folder? |
Posted By: Herky
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 3:07pm
How refreshing to see honesty! Hope you get the system crash sorted. Is the Vulcan sim the same model as FSX? Just a thought, since you mention the 32 folder? I know some devs have to re do sims for 64 bit P3d. Then again LM keep messing around with updates, which causes issues with sim models which previously worked and as a result, the devs have to alter the previously working model? Best regards ------------- You Tube at HERKY231 or David Herky |
Posted By: Delta558
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 5:23pm
Yes, tried that and no joy. I've bitten the bullet and completely re-installed Windows, P3D and am now running through all the different requirements of my development tools (specific versions of simconnect, dot net, various C++ redistributables) to allow them to work and interface with the sim; The Event Viewer has never seen so much use! Slowly approaching the point of being able to get into it all again, bear with me 
It was happening with every aircraft, for some reason that dll file in the 32bit folder was causing a 64bit sim on a 64bit OS to crash I'm not a computer programmer, so there's probably a very good reason but to me that just seems plain daft - 32bit should not enter into it anywhere. Anyway, things are heading in the right direction so to get back on topic I should be able to start hunting down the problem. Might allow myself a couple of circuits first, mind . . . .  Paul.
|
Posted By: Delta558
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 9:00pm
|
Okay, I've just been flying around on Autopilot in the Vulcan and it seems to hold height quite nicely. If some of you having the problem could check the following and let me know what you find, it may help track down any issues. First things to check, bearing in mind the AP needs selections made in two different places - Autopilot section at rear of fuel tray: AP power on (one white dolls eye). R,A and E switches all on (forwards). Alt/IAS switch to Alt (pointer rearwards) and then middle mouse to raise the switch (i.e. select the chosen function) MFS selector (centre instrument panel): Height selected Autopilot section at rear of fuel tray: Engage selected (two white dolls eyes). Secondly, I've copied and pasted my Autopilot section from the Aircraft.cfg file below - it should be unaltered from the release files, but if you could just check that it is identical to your own by opening in Notepad or the like (AP section about 4/5 of the way down, so right towards the end): [autopilot] autopilot_available = 1 flight_director_available = 1 default_vertical_speed = 1500 autothrottle_available = 1 autothrottle_arming_required = 0 autothrottle_max_rpm = 90 autothrottle_takeoff_ga = 1 pitch_takeoff_ga = 8 max_pitch = 20 max_pitch_acceleration = 1.2 max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt = 2.0 max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt = 1.5 max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint = 20000 max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint = 28000 max_bank = 18 max_bank_acceleration = 1.4 max_bank_velocity = 2.5 max_throttle_rate = 0.1 nav_proportional_control = 12 nav_integrator_control = 0.25 nav_derivative_control = 0.05 nav_integrator_boundary = 2.5 nav_derivative_boundary = 0 gs_proportional_control = 25 gs_integrator_control = 0.53 gs_derivative_control = 0 gs_integrator_boundary = 0.7 gs_derivative_boundary = 0 yaw_damper_gain = 1 default_pitch_mode = 0 default_bank_mode = 0 use_no_default_bank = 1 use_no_default_pitch = 1 yaw_slip_control_gain = 0.00 yaw_control_uses_trim = 0.00 Hopefully, we can get to the bottom of this fairly quickly. Cheers, Paul. |
Posted By: Delta558
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 1:27am
|
Just a brief update - here's a vid I cobbled together earlier while looking into the problem. You can see the process of selcting Alt hold, it sits level just above 20,000ft from a climb rate of roughly 4000fpm after a couple of oscillations (remember this is not your modern, precision autopilot that you can engage at any angle. You should really be within a few degrees of the attitude you want to maintain). The first turn (I have now adjusted to allow 45 degrees of bank in the turn - not in the release version) is hit by winds and you see the autopilot recovering. Later turns remain constant throughout, even at that high bank angle. Then you see I take it off Alt hold at roughly 300KIAS, engage IAS hold and pull the throttles back (later also popping the airbrakes). This causes the AP to use the pitch mode to control the descent rate based on airspeed. All of that is in the first seven-and-a-half minutes or so, the last few minutes are just a bit of low-level and landing. Other than adjusting the max bank angle, the autopilot section is as I pasted above. https://youtu.be/K6Hxn-pgE-Q Cheers, Paul.
|
Posted By: CavalierDuck
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2019 at 12:59pm
|
Paul, Thank you for persevering with this, and commiserations on your PC troubles! Running Vulcan v1.05 in P3Dv4.3. I can reproduce what you did in the video, and can confirm the altitude hold works well at ca. 22,000ft, including making turns. But this isn't the problem that I see. Try doing the same thing as you did in the video, but engage AP/altitude hold at say 8,000ft (a test I just did). The AP hunts for the altitude, inducing an oscillation of increasing amplitude. If you leave it to its own devices, the aircraft will eventually destroy itself by either overspeed, stall or ground impact. Any wind, or a turn, or any other perturbation seems to make it happen faster. I have never once been able to successfully engage altitude hold at a "low" altitude, but at higher altitudes I have never had a problem doing so. I level the aircraft and trim before engaging AP/alt hold. It is interesting to watch the AP elevator servo load gauge while the oscillation is going on. I see it travel over its full range. It's like it is over-adjusting, and setting up the oscillation? Hope this helps, and let me know if there's anything you would like me to test. Nick
|
Posted By: Gary M
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2019 at 5:29pm
|
Paul, thanks for the update - appreciate your efforts with this despite the other issues you have been having. regards. |