A couple of issues with V4
Printed From: Just Flight Forum
Category: Just Flight Products
Forum Name: Tornado GR1
Forum Description: Discussion area for the Tornado GR1
URL: http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=32026
Printed Date: 18 Apr 2024 at 9:47am
Topic: A couple of issues with V4
Posted By: Panny
Subject: A couple of issues with V4
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 11:13am
|
Hello, Finally got back to flying the Tonka again in V4. Now with a 4K monitor and new GPU things run a lot better. However, seem to have a couple of things that aren't right. Firstly, it appears that when I load a flight plan on the left TV Tab, the instant I do so the flight simulator just instantly crashes and closes. No freeze or anything. Secondly TFR doesn't seem to function properly. Despite the fact it has been set up correctly when I engage it, it doesn't keep clearance relative to the ground. Instead if I set 500ft clearance, it will fly 500ft MSL instead, regardless of the ground. Is there something going wrong here, am I doing something wrong? Otherwise, very much enjoying the product. Also, it would be great in the future if you thought about Tacpacking the product. The Tornado Gr.1 just has so much potential, whether that's form the JP233 attack, to laydown and loft modes. If so, could the ordnance manager have more options such as?: Can load just a single GBU on port and starboard shoulders instead of 2 to replicate the 3 GBU loadout of the Gulf War. Carry training bombs, bombs on the inner wing pylon, ALARM, TIALD. Needless to say it's a lot there, and I would be very happy personally to pay for a 'professional upgrade' for these things. Happy New Year's, Peter
|
Replies:
Posted By: Panny
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 11:20am
| Also I noticed that when on the TV TAB to select a tanker, there is no tanker present. Can this be resolved? |
Posted By: Herky
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 7:18pm
I have the same issues. I have submitted s ticket. The terrain following has never been satisfactory. The radar needs to follow terrain maps. The SSW Tornado has freely available downloadable terrain maps that can be integrated into the simulation. Just using the P3D terrain doesn't seem to work. But SSW have terrible problems with their forum being hacked and their installer is hopeless for P3dv4, but that's another subject! Re TacPack, I 100% agree. TacPack the JF Tonka and I'd buy it twice! I am not holding out for a JP 233, that would knock DCS for six!  Here's hoping everything gets sorted. Regards David ------------- You Tube at HERKY231 or David Herky |
Panny wrote:Posted By: Panny
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 9:29pm
|
I have the SSW Tornado as well. I won't compare the two, but it does seem SSW has the TFR nailed, and I like their moving maps(the default map the JF Tonka uses, is just ugly and doesn't have much application IMO). I think the other thing I forgot to mention would have to be a visual model at least of the TIRRS Tornado.
|
Posted By: kevinh
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 11:54pm
| TFR has only ever worked once for me in the JF GR-1. Always dives the GR-1 straight for the terrain. The one time it worked it had a continuous, rapid pitch oscillation. RH mode also continuously oscillates in pitch, though it seems a bit better in P3D. |
Posted By: Martyn
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 11:52am
|
We're investigating both issues at the moment. We'll update you ASAP. Thanks Martyn
------------- Martyn Just Flight Ltd |
Posted By: Herky
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 12:47pm
Much Obliged!  ------------- You Tube at HERKY231 or David Herky |
Posted By: Herky
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 9:59pm
I agree the moving map in the SSW Tornado was a great feature. They use separate maps for the terrain elevation and topography, then use these to integrate the terrain following, this worked well. What didn't work well was the complicated install process and the autopilot! Missing targeting modes, awkward key assignments and their statement that the product would get no further development? Well at least they were honest there! Also no rear seat position, so no multi function displays. It felt like a half finished experiment that was abandoned for some reason. So it's no longer on my system. I had it on my P3dv3 sim, so it kept crashing due to oom! Like all these complex simulators if you could have all the best features in one, it would be magnificent, but then it would probably cost £100+? I hope the JF Tornado continues to develop. A TacPack add on with a JP233 weapon would be superb. A moving map and terrain following radar linked to the AP with the maps from the SSW product.  Cheers. ------------- You Tube at HERKY231 or David Herky |
Posted By: Panny
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 10:23am
|
Well I think the way to solve these issues is to take the approach that Milviz has done with their F-4s. Considering how long they've been available for they give the equivalent to DLCs within the F-4. Say the initial F-4E release was in July 2015(so two and a half years old) and costs $60. Thereafter about a year and a bit ago they released Tacpack with it which costs $15 and then finally more recently the ADV version of the F-4E which adds more functionality, costing another $19. In essence, if you bought bit by bit, it would cost $95 for the finished product, which I personally think is fair as it has all the bells and whistles. However if you wait, the whole bundle is $80 for the base and expansions. I think these days functionality and systems complexity is the name of the game, and for top tier military addons to be effective they should do what Milviz has done here. With a base pack you can provide an intermediate finished product, and then over time add more functionality to it. Considering addons from PMDG and FSLabs push up to $140 these days I find it somewhat pedantic people get uppity on costs of the FS fighters. I would pay $140 for a PMDG standard Tornado for sure, and I believe that it is similarly complicated. Peter
|
Posted By: Herky
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 11:20am
Seemingly we are of like mind here. Good plan to provide incremental development models as per Milviz F4. I would pay FSLABS or PMDG prices for a fully developed and TacPack enabled Tornado. If done incrementally, the developer should have some security in that he will not have all the eggs in one basket, so profits will always be there in the sale of the model range. I paid $90 for the Tackpac + Superbug, as a Christmas present to myself. This was money well spent! The systems in the F/A 18 E are well modelled. The overall level of immersion is deeper (for myself) than the PMDG or FSL aircraft. The aircraft can be enjoyed without TacPack, having the full range of navigation avionics. However, adding TacPack brings a whole new level of complexity, interest and challenge. We have precious few advanced military simulation models for Prepared V4. The Monopoly of DCS (they make devs sign a contract to not sell on other platforms) means that we will not be seeing aircraft like the Metal to Mesh Mirage 2000. So aircraft like the Superbug and hopefully JF Tonka, will be our current modern military jets. Regards David ------------- You Tube at HERKY231 or David Herky |
Posted By: paul day
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 12:23pm
|
I have the same problems as many other posters on this forum ie 1) No HUD 2)No functuality in the rear cockpit 3)See through airspeed gauge in the rear cockpit 4)Attitude indicator gauge missing in the rear cockpit 5)Gauge to the right of the HUD not working Also could somebody explain why in the CFG for the German liveries the kb_checklists=Eurofighter_check Regards Paul Day. ------------- paul day |
Posted By: Martyn
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 2:11pm
|
Hi Paul, Please download the latest installer from your account and then check to see if the gauges are still missing. If you are using FSX or P3D v1-v3 then you'll need to enable the rear seat using the configuration tool. If you have the simulator open then you'll need to restart it before the changes take effect. The Tornado uses its own custom checklist panel so you can ignore the default checklist/reference kneeboard tabs. Thanks Martyn
------------- Martyn Just Flight Ltd |
Posted By: Herky
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 12:03pm
|
Just an update on my crash to desktop issue upon loading a flight plan? Today I loaded the Tornado and was able to load a flight plan without any CTD? Trouble was after taking off the aircraft struggled with all the auto pilot functions. Also the 15 waypoints were not visible on the navigators screen in the back? Selecting altitude hold caused a roll and dive into the deck? The terrain following feature did not work whatsoever. So I don't understand what's going on with the 64 bit version if this sim. Regards David  ------------- You Tube at HERKY231 or David Herky |
Posted By: Mr Paul Michael Rose
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 10:49am
|
Guys are there any updates with the Tonka The big ones for me are the kamikaze TFR which initiates a death dive as soon as engaged and the CTD when flight plan is selected in rear pit I'm sure there are others but these are the ones killing it for me. |
Posted By: Herky
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 12:11pm
+1 My Tonka is in the hangar. Seems like its not going to get any better? Regards David ------------- You Tube at HERKY231 or David Herky |
Posted By: Mr Paul Michael Rose
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 10:40am
|
@ the JF guys Any idea for when either a patch or workaround is either due or being worked upon. I know that you guys are really busy. I love the Tonka and I have waited so long to fly one in VR and the SSW just doesn't have the feel yours does and therefore i am loath to hanger queen her but the problems we have at the moment are really affecting the feel of the product. The flight plan info is essential to navigation and for me the TFR issue is a bit of a killer. I always had a dream of a VR flight on TF through the lake district. Can someone just reply with a yes we will look at it or there is something due to happen, I think people are just getting a tad tetchy as nothing is ever heard. I hope someone answers. Paul |
Posted By: Herky
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2018 at 5:55pm
I read they are working on an F3. Perhaps the Bomber will get fixed along with the Fighter? Not much active service time left now, before the powers that be "retire" it.....like the Harrier?  ------------- You Tube at HERKY231 or David Herky |
Posted By: Rich
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2018 at 8:15pm
|
Sorry for the delay in answering. As Herky has correctly stated, we have an F3 in the works at the moment. It's currently still being modelled, but when the time comes for coding work the plan is to give the GR1 an overhaul at the same time. ------------- http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Just-Flight/15266573498" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: kevinh
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2018 at 11:13am
Possibly but as the F3 doesn’t have TFR, that probably still won’t get addressed. Come on Just Flight, the GR1 isn’t complete without TFR. It was the main reason I bought it. |
Posted By: Delta558
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2018 at 11:22am
|
But the Vulcan does have TFR, though not as complex as the one in the Tornado (giving indications to the pilot rather than actually flying the aircraft). However, for sim purposes the avoidance of terrain is the main issue, and with the fact that both Tornado systems and TFR are being looked at this year I would think it likely that it will be addressed! |
Posted By: kevinh
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2018 at 12:29pm
Well if so it’s about time. TFR was heavily trailed in the GR1 pre release hype. Successive SP’s failed to address it. All this time later it still doesn’t work, any more than RA hold works. I wonder if they’ll fix the nose down attitude problem flying at low level in autopilot compared to manual flight. The last problem leads me to suspect there is something fundamentally wrong with the flight model. |
Posted By: Delta558
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2018 at 2:22pm
Well, as that hasn't (to the best of my knowledge) been reported, it certainly hasn't made its way back to me, perhaps it is something that can be looked at. Regarding your comment about something being fundamentally wrong, please remember that this simulator only allows for one wing shape. That is defined within the fde, it is specific and does not allow for alteration of wing shape at all. The Tornado effectively has 4 wing positions, so 4 different wing shapes. The following is from memory, so may not be exact but is not far off: With the Tornado, there is a defined change of attitude based on wing sweep angle (because the CoL shifts rearwards) as well as speed. I think that attitude is 3 degrees for each main sweep movement - fore to mid, mid to aft. That balances itself as the speed alters, so you have two items affecting the pitch of the aircraft, rather than the more usual one (speed) which the sim is set up for. The change of pitch with wing sweep has been created within the fde, and as an initial thought I would suggest that maybe the AP is bypassing that. Something to look at, certainly, but when you create things the sim wasn't intended to account for there is always the risk of finding an unwanted side-effect. Paul. |
Posted By: kevinh
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2018 at 8:10pm
|
Hi Paul, I have reported it and supplied screenshots to show the problem. When flying manually pitch attitude is normal. If you engage autopilot in RA or TFR mode, pitch attitude is several degrees nose down in comparison. I understand the problem you have with variable sweep, but for the same weight and speed, pitch attitude in level flight should be the same whether AP is engaged or not. This is in addition to the pitch oscillations that occur in these modes but which don't affect vertical flight path. The GR1 pitch oscillates but VS is zero and altitude is rock solid. I don't know what is going on, but it doesn't feel right. Cheers, Kevin |
Posted By: Herky
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2018 at 2:09pm
Yay! Looking forward to it. Fix the navigation systems, specifically waypoints displaying or not displaying correctly and the rear seat displays. The Terrain Following would be nice. If you can do something similar to SSW Terrain Following that would be super. Although I know they use their own terrain maps and that's keyed in to their simulation. Seemingly the P3d/Orbx terrain read straight from the simulator, is a bit difficult to program in. In my opinion, the VRS Superbug reigns supreme in the P3d combat jet league(Tacpack). Then I believe the Aerosoft F14 would be up there, but I haven't bought it (Yet!). Definitely on the list. I do have the SWS F-4. I am disappointed in that, mainly because its not compatible with P3d Simdirector, so I cant script any mission scenarios...Nothing to bomb you see? Their support is great, but not much I can do with it without Simdirector, but that's just me. Happy simming. Best regards David ------------- You Tube at HERKY231 or David Herky |
Posted By: Mr Paul Michael Rose
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2018 at 8:49am
|
Hi Guys Do we have any news on the Tonka GR-1 update. I have left it a few months but am really curious if its a dead issue now? |
Posted By: Craig.Haskell
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2018 at 9:55am
The F3 is still in development and as previousy stated by Rich, when the time comes the GR1 will have its overhaul at the same time. Be assured it has not been forgotten about. |
Posted By: Mr Paul Michael Rose
Date Posted: 13 Dec 2018 at 9:59pm
|
Hi Guys Possibly a silly question, any news on the Tornado update??? Is there any chance of it before or even for Xmas. I have jusat got Marham working perfectly and the working Tonka would be wonderful. Coningsby too for the F3. |
Posted By: Mr Paul Michael Rose
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2019 at 1:26pm
|
Hi Guys I had a conversation with one of the JF guys at Cosford and he said if I do a full reinstall maybe that will work. I did and alas no change, when trying to access the flightplans from the rear seat it dies. I know this isn't an issue for everybody but if you guys need a beta bod to test different configs I am happy to be the guinea pig. Looking forward to the update but If I can be of any help I am happy to be. Paul |