Print Page | Close Window

Planning Delta and American flights to Sydney

Printed From: Just Flight Forum
Category: Just Flight Products
Forum Name: Traffic X / Traffic / Traffic 2005
Forum Description: Discussion area for Traffic titles
Printed Date: 21 Jan 2019 at 8:38pm

Topic: Planning Delta and American flights to Sydney
Posted By: Darren
Subject: Planning Delta and American flights to Sydney
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 9:56am
Hello flight simmers Trying to plan Delta and American airlines flights into Sydney but having trouble, I am using the 777s of both airlines but trying to plan them from Honoululu to Sydney I keep getting the red line and I am wondering if the international date line has some thing to do with the times. I have tried leaving at all times during the day and the night and also tried leaving Honolulu right on 23.59 but still get the red line when it comes to landing in Sydney. Is there a way around the date line or should that not have an affect on the game?

Posted By: RayM
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 2:52pm
Having looked thru all of the flights I have scheduled that go between PHNL and YSSY, I noticed that they are all planned as WEEKLY schedules.
So I tried this and - yes it works if you do it this way! It is to do with Dateline.
So to achieve your required schedules, do them as WEEKLY.
Good luck.

A long time FSXA and Traffic X user

Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 11:15pm
I concur.

It is VERY MUCH to do with the International Date Line. As your plane crosses it, the time can "go backwards" (usually to the previous day). This can cause Traffic X to show the error that this flight leg needs to start a minimum of 50 minutes after the previous leg ends; and even if the time on your Traffic X screen does appear to be correct and is indeed 50 minutes after the previous leg.

Ray is correct that the way to get around this is to set weekly schedules.

That said, there IS a way to "trick" the program and still have it work as a daily schedule, but it is an advanced technique involving manual text editing of the schedule file(s) and A LOT of painstaking increment and decrement adjustments using trial and error, which then need you to compile, followed by a subsequent running of the sim to test the result – each and every time. Rinse and repeat until you get it right. It can take ages. It revolves around using informed guesswork, a little bit of logic, and manually writing the times in the schedule file, resulting in Traffic X representing it using this strange format ... -12:- ... which you may have seen in some of the default schedules that shipped with the program. I still haven't worked out that weird format and what it represents (in fact it could even be a bug that it writes it like that). But, if you have the patience, you CAN get a schedule to work as a daily schedule if you persevere. I've done a handful of daily schedules which cross the Dateline using this method. But, truth be known, it is easier to just stick to doing weekly schedules.

Posted By: Darren
Date Posted: 06 May 2017 at 12:22pm
Thanks guys I will try that, I will see if I can plan LAX PHNL SYD PNHL LAX and do it weekly will let you know how I go.

Posted By: Soaranden
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 8:55pm
Hi, Darren,

Quite some time ago, I posted the below discovery, which you might find to be easier:

I was scheduling an overnight flight to be flown daily from EBBR in Brussels to ZBAA in Beijing, when I made a discovery. My first attempt at scheduling this daily flight (with an early-evening departure for the first leg) resulted in the following:

EBBR 18:25    ZBAA 10:06
ZBAA 13:33    EBBR 15:14

As you can see, the second leg was highlighted in red to indicate an error, and clicking on the highlighted line resulted in the dreaded error message, "The leg needs to start minimum 50 minutes after the previous leg end."

As a result of the error message (and out of a strong desire to maintain the first leg of the flight as an overnight leg), I deleted both lines of the schedule, selected "Weekly" instead of "Daily," and began the process of writing a schedule for the whole week in order to avoid the 50 minute error. The first two lines of the weekly schedule looked somewhat like this:

EBBR Sun/18:2    ZBAA Mon/10.0
ZBAA Mon/13:3    EBBR Mon/15.1

That's when I realized I had had a long day, the hour was late, and I didn't really feel like writing a schedule for the whole week, even though I wanted the flight to depart each and every evening from EBBR. So I decided to try a quick experiment. Under "Flight Plan repeats," I switched from "Weekly" back to "Daily." The result was this:

EBBR 18:25    ZBAA 10:06
ZBAA 13:33    EBBR 15:14

THERE WAS NO ERROR AND NO 50 MINUTE ERROR MESSAGE! So to avoid the error when the first leg of a daily flight is an overnight leg, initially select "Weekly," write a single departure leg and a single return leg, then, select "Daily."


Posted By: RayM
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 11:22pm
this is an exciting revelation that, to be honest, I don't remember being posted before.

EBBR to ZBAA would not normally be crossing the International Date Line though or would it?

I will definitely try this out when I next see this happening in any of my schedules - in fact I will look for an example next time I go into TrafficX. A huge time saver indeed!

A long time FSXA and Traffic X user

Posted By: RayM
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2017 at 12:22pm
Dan and Darren,

have done some extra testing following Dan's comments.

I repeated Dan's schedule of EBBR to ZBAA and return, using "Daily" and got the RED 2nd line. Switched to "Weekly" and edited return line to depart Monday. Line now BLACK with no error. Switched back to "Daily" and now no error.
Not sure why the original had a RED 50min error as the route would NOT have crossed the IDL.

Tried another test where the route would cross the IDL.

Daily -
KSFO    03:45      RJAA    06:03
RJAA    07:15      KSFO    00:-2        RED line / 50 min error

changed to "Weekly" and entries automatically change to
KSFO    Sun/03:4   RJAA    Mon/06:0
RJAA    Sun/07:1   KSFO    Sun/00:-     RED line / 50 min error

edit RED line (to change departure to Monday >50 min after arriving)
RJAA    Mon/07:1   KSFO    Sun/23:3     BLACK line / no error

revert to "Daily" and full listing now becomes -
KSFO    03:45      RJAA    06:03
RJAA    07:15      KSFO    23:33        BLACK line / no error

This is clearly only one set of times, etc. so I will wait and see what happens when I come across any similar circumstances. Still not sure whether the 'crossing of the IDL' is a significant situation.

A long time FSXA and Traffic X user

Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 3:20am
Soaranden's method of changing from Weekly back to Daily does work well, and is a method I myself have used from time to time.  As one of the initial responders to this thread, I probably should have mentioned it.  However, at the time, it simply didn't come to mind because I had literally been doing some trial-and-error work that day, using the "funny syntax" stuff mentioned in my post.  If you're having trouble with aircraft schedules, IDL, and the "needs to start minimum 50 minutes..." error, then Soaranden's method should certainly be the first thing you try.  If that method doesn't work (in my experience there are some rare times when it doesn't), then you can resort to manual editing and "funny syntaxes" along the lines of what I was writing about.

Posted By: RayM
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2018 at 1:25pm
For the last few days, as a result of down-loading and tinkering with Ray Smith's PHNL-Honolulu, I have had to do a load of extra scheduling (using TrafficX) to make the airport busier.

I have to say that Dan and Freddy's methods as described above are a brilliant time-saver when you are creating flights in this region. In the past, I would have done full weekly schedules to overcome the inevitable "The leg needs to start a minimum 50 minutes after the previous leg end" message. Now I just toggle the 'daily' and 'weekly' functions (as above) and, there you are, a quick 2-line schedule that works.

Credit where credit is due - many thanks to you both.

A long time FSXA and Traffic X user

Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2018 at 11:55pm

Posted By: Soaranden
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2018 at 8:29am
Thanks for the kind words, Ray. They're much appreciated.

Posted By: Soaranden
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 7:55pm
In an above thread, freddy mentioned there are some rare times when my method doesn't work. I encountered one of those rare times, today, when setting up a Qantas A380 nonstop flight between Dallas and Sydney. Although the flight compiled using the method I described above, the aircraft didn't show up at the airport (not even at the Dallas departure airport) when I ran FSX. I looked at the Traffic X compiler log and found that it contained a line referring to my flight with the phrase "...requires at least..." followed by the number of hours. Since Dallas to Sydney is such a long flight, there are just not enough hours in a day to force such a long flight into a Traffic X "daily" schedule.

I had to make the schedule "weekly."

Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 1:25am
Ah yes, I have encountered that very same issue many times ... and a weekly schedule was the only way to solve it. The good news is that with a bit of careful tinkering, it is possible to make a weekly schedule behave just like a daily one. Although, that said, there are many times when the "last day" of the weekly schedule doesn't behave (you encounter the "...requires at least..." problem on the seventh day of your weekly schedule). My trick here is to create TWO weekly schedules. One for the even numbered days, and one for the odd numbered days; each using the exact same aircraft. Note that doing this will mean that the aircraft not scheduled to fly on that day will remain parked at the airport until the next day. But, if you're creative enough with your times, and use morning scheduled times for the even days, and afternoon/evening scheduled times for the odd days, then you can (sort of) mitigate that too. Finally, if the dateline will allow it, you can even have one aircraft (the "even days" aircraft) take off and return only from/to airport A, and the other aircraft (the "odd days" aircraft) take off and return only from/to airport B.

Whenever you get a compiler error, it is usually still possible to get the exact result (or at least, close to the result) that you were initially trying to achieve with a little bit of "out of the box" thinking.

Print Page | Close Window