Military call Sign "0"
Printed From: Just Flight Forum
Category: Just Flight Products
Forum Name: Traffic 360
Forum Description: Discussion area for Traffic 360
URL: http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=20818
Printed Date: 28 Apr 2024 at 4:36pm
Topic: Military call Sign "0"
Posted By: FabioL
Subject: Military call Sign "0"
Date Posted: 03 May 2013 at 11:08am
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Hi,
Would you please consider changing the name or flight number of military traffic which is at present "0" (ZERO)? It somehow sounds wrong to hear "Zero, turn left onto....", as this call sign is unlikely in the RW. Alternatively, please could you indicate where I can change this aircraft's flight number (which aircraft.cfg it is)? Thanks, Fabio |
Replies:
Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 07 May 2013 at 6:01am
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This happens with aircraft that don't have a FLIGHT NUMBER associated with them in the flight plans. In other words, it is not just military planes.
FSX ATC uses a set of predetermined programmed rules to decide whether and when it should call out the airline name, the flight number, the aircraft registration/tail number, the aircraft type, etc etc. And, depending on a few different factors, it works out what it is going to say by drawing on the details from EITHER the aircraft.cfg files, OR, from within the compiled flight plans ... OR, in some cases, from BOTH. Sadly, that means that you will not resolve this issue simply by making some changes in the relevant aircraft.cfg files. The true problem here lies in the fact that NOT ALL PLANES IN JUST FLIGHT'S FLIGHT PLANS HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED A FLIGHT NUMBER. You can see this by opening Traffic 360 and looking at various flight plans - many of them will NOT have flight numbers. So the compiled Traffic 360 AI traffic file is the real issue here. An example to illustrate: A Cessna AI plane from Traffic 360, is flying in Flight Simulator. Depending on the FSX predetermined programmed rules for AI and ATC, and on a few other factors, the FSX ATC code determines that it needs to call out the FLIGHT NUMBER for this Cessna AI plane. But, this particular AI flight in Just Flight's flight plans has not been assigned a flight number. So FSX ATC says the word "zero". The fix for this is to go in and assign flight numbers for each and every AI plane in Traffic 360, followed by a recompile of the AI traffic file. I realise this might be easier said than done ... but, that's the way to fix it. For the record, it was the same with Traffic X too. I spent AGES fixing this issue in Traffic X, followed by a recompile. Unfortunately for me, I did the work on that long before I learnt that I could open and edit the appropriate traffic files (take backups FIRST) in programs like Notepad++, or Microsoft Excel, and use the SEARCH AND REPLACE tools to make the required changes much more quicker and far more easily than I could do using the Traffic X interface (hint, hint, hehehe). (But instructions, help, and guidance on how to do the task using programs like that is pretty much beyond anything that could easily be posted here.) Just remember, if you experiment with this idea/method, TAKE BACKUPS OF YOUR TRAFFIC 360 FILES AND FOLDERS FIRST. A "better" solution would be for Just Flight to fix this, once and for all, by adding flight numbers for all flights ... and releasing that with the forthcoming Service Pack. 
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Posted By: FabioL
Date Posted: 07 May 2013 at 8:17am
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Hi Freddy,
Many thanks for your very comprehensive answer; it's clear you have toiled with this issue for some time! How would you search for flights without a flight number, as a search for "ATC_flight_number=" would brings up all flights, those with and those without, and is missing airline names a factor in this? I use Agent Ransack. I would hope that JF updates the product with appropriate airline names and flight numbers too. Thanks, Fabio |
Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 07 May 2013 at 12:44pm
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The text "ATC_flight_number=" would be found in aircraft.cfg files. That text won't be found in the flight plans. And, because the problem lies in the flight plans, searching for that text won't be of any help.
Sadly, it is a long time ago that I worked on this, and therefore my memory on exactly how I resolved it is a little bit hazy. Suffice to say, you need to search inside the FLIGHT PLANS to make sure that each and every flight has a flight number associated with it (that is to say, a number which is not "0"). As I said, my memory is a bit hazy on it, but I vaguely recall that the issue occurs only for VFR flights (or was it the other way around, only IFR flights?). I seem to remember that the issue did not apply to AIRLINES because they ALL had flight numbers already. So I think it was only the GA flights and business flights which were affected (and, yes, the military flights). From memory, as I looked around at the flight plans in Traffic X, I began to notice that there was a pattern to this and it was always going to be "this kind" of flight, or "that kind" of flight in the flight plans. Having noticed there was a pattern, it then became easier to search and find the "problem" flight plans and thus correct them (by assigning a flight number to them). Again I stress that my memory on this is quite hazy. But I think what I've written in the above paragraph is something along the lines of how I did it. I do know that the issue is definitely caused by flights not having a flight number associated with them. And I do know that once you add flight numbers and recompile the AI traffic file, the problem goes away (it has for me in my FSX). I also know that I spent A DAMN LOT of time in the Traffic X interface adding flight numbers to fix the problem. Thankfully, the good news is that there's no need to edit every single individual flight plan ... there's literally hundreds (thousands?) of those. That would have been way too time consuming; and I know I didn't need to do that. In summary ... This issue is not related to the "ATC_flight_number=" line in the aircraft.cfg files. It is to do with the compiled Traffic 360 AI flight plans. Have a look at the flight plans in Traffic 360, find a few that have "zero" for a flight number, and see if you can work out a pattern (always VFR?, always IFR?, just GA?, only GA VFR flights?, only business IFR flights?). You may even need to run Flight Simulator a few times and listen to ATC to try to work out which planes it is happening to and then seeing if you can find those planes in the flight plans in Traffic 360. From there, once you discover a pattern of some kind, you can hopefully work out the best and most efficient way/method to search for the problem flight plans in Traffic 360 and then enter flight numbers for them to correct the issue (and of course don't forget to recompile of the AI traffic file after making the changes). In response to the question whether missing airline names could be a factor in this ... yes, that is a possibility. If ATC does not have an airline name to say, then it will say only the flight number. Note we are talking about the flight number that is compiled inside the AI traffic file from the flight plans; which is NOT the flight number from the aircraft.cfg file. If ATC has no airline name to say, AND the flight does not have a flight number in the compiled AI traffic file, then ATC will say "zero". Note that if ATC *DOES* have an airline name to say, but the flight number is zero, then you will hear "Virgin 0" or "American 0". And, because you do not hear that, I'd be reasonably confident that all the airline flights *DO* have flight numbers in Traffic 360. I am still using Traffic X (I do not have Traffic 360), and, as I said above, the flight number issue was NOT an issue for the airline flights in Traffic X because they ALL had flight numbers already. I'd expect that Traffic 360 would be the same. |
Posted By: Soaranden
Date Posted: 07 May 2013 at 11:51pm
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I have something that may be helpful with regard to flight numbers. Freddy, as I recall (and my recollection may be incorrect), you told me that you were using Excel. I have both Microsoft Office and the free LibreOffice. I used LibreOffice Calc in the image below. I no longer have any Traffic X flight plans that don't have flight numbers, but I can show how a Traffic X tab-delimited flight plan tcc file with flight numbers looks in a spreadsheet. (Yes, I know, this is the Traffic 360 forum, but I still use Traffic X). In the below spreadsheet, column "H" contains the flight numbers. Using a spreadsheet, therefore, it should be pretty easy to determine which flight plans do not contain flight numbers. I would think that if you have a flight plan tcc file that contains no flight numbers (and perhaps no column for them) whatsoever, you could insert a column (in the same position as the column that shows flight plans as seen below) and add flight numbers directly to the flight plan tcc file. Of course, if some of the flight plans showing in a spreadsheet already have flight numbers showning in the column, then it would be a simple matter to add flight numbers to the cells where no flight numbers exist. (You may notice that I still have some work to do, myself, since not all of the flight plans shown have unique flight numbers).  |
Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 08 May 2013 at 12:04am
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Yes, you are correct, I did use Excel as part of this task. In fact, I recall using BOTH (Traffic X *AND* Excel at the same time).
I am personally reluctant to try to explain HOW to use Excel (or Notepad++ etc) to do this kind of work. Without a good knowledge of which files to look in, how to get around in those files, and where exactly to look etc, it can lead to disaster. In my posts I did "hint"/"suggest" that the work can be done using these kinds of programs. And, of course, I have also warned in my posts that BACKUPS SHOULD BE TAKEN before doing any work. In my last post, I was careful to choose my words by saying "you can hopefully work out the best and most efficient way/method to search for the problem flight plans in Traffic 360 and then enter flight numbers for them to correct the issue". Bottom line, I am not trying here to be mean or unhelpful ... far from it. I want to help. It's just that I don't want to get myself embroiled in any long-winded instructional explanations about how to open and edit the files using external programs such as Excel or Notepad++. I fear such a discussion will get very difficult to explain, and can lead to MAJOR issues for someone if they make a mistake etc. Not to mention that people have varying levels of knowledge and skill when it comes to Windows, and programs like Excel etc. It's just a path that I personally prefer not to go down. Although I am happy to "hint" that it can be done.
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Posted By: FabioL
Date Posted: 08 May 2013 at 7:42am
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Hi Soaranden and Freddy,
I am really appreciative for your help, especially with respect to Excel and delimited file types; no worries there, I'm an Excel expert (a while ago that is - MCP V5.0!!!). I used to write basic VB for work to grab data about call management for service level stats etc. Now I understand this routine, there'll be no end to me tailoring T360. Thank you again, Fabio |
Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 08 May 2013 at 8:54am
| Ahhh. MCP hey? Knowledge of Excel huh? In that case, go for it. I am the senior customer service person at an IT company, and I have plenty of experience with how difficult it can be trying to explain stuff like this to people with varying levels of skill and knowledge. Hence, my reluctance to do so here. But it sounds like you will be fine. Dan's screenshot should get you started. You can edit most (not all) of the Traffic 360 files using any program that will do ASCII edits (such as Notepad, Notepad++ [better], Excel, etc). Remember, as always, to take BACKUPS before doing anything ... and, remember that you must recompile the AI traffic file after making all the edits that you want to make. |
Posted By: FabioL
Date Posted: 08 May 2013 at 9:09am
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No worries, and thanks!
I've been in computing since before the IBM PC XT, before the age of Apricots, Osbornes, Sirius, Rainbow etc, even before CPM and Basic, when we had five-man teams to carry a single plastic CDC disc cartridge unit with 5Mb capacity (!), optical discs were 8", and engineers (err, me!) had to carry 8" floppy's 246K, oscilloscopes, toolkits, soldering irons, solder suckers etc. You could always distinguish an engineer in those days - we wore tie clips to stop our ties being eaten by pulley wheels, gears, and cogs, in the day of fixable photo electric cells, and HD heads that we polished with alcohol before fitting and aligning them with square form wave or cats eye patterns. Those were the days.... |
Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 08 May 2013 at 9:54am
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Hehehe, the first computer I ever used only had an 8-digit display, similar to an extremely large calculator.
Ahh yes, I know what you're talking about. The first computer program I ever wrote was done by using a pencil to color in on special cards. The cards were then scanned and punched by a machine. Hundreds of punch cards were required to write only a handful of lines of code. Feed the cards in to the special reader, and thus the computer program was entered. CPM was a dream compared to that. 8 inch floppy disks, cassette tapes to load programs, acoustic coupler modems at 75 baud, and my first word processor: WordStar. Not to mention Lunar Lander and this pretty damn cool Flight Simulator program, both on the school's Apple II. Those were indeed the days. I have fond memories of being connected to this thing called the "Internet", LONG BEFORE anyone else had even heard of it, using a coupler modem, and typing UNIX COMMANDS on a COMMAND LINE (no WWW back then) to download pictures of the moon directly from NASA. It took over two hours just to get a grainy, fairly small, black and white image. But my friend and I sat there, for the entire duration, simply fixated, staring at the monitor, and watching every line get drawn pixel by pixel, one after the other. We were getting this image, over the telephone line, through this strange coupler device thing, all the way from AMERICA, and we weren't even paying overseas dialing charges! I cannot even begin to describe how EXCITING that was! I even remember a time when it was VERY MUCH frowned upon if you tried to ADVERTISE or SELL something on the "Internet". Oh how you got "yelled at" on mIRC by the other folks who were lucky enough to have online connections back then. (I am sure today's Twitter is really just a slightly improved version of mIRC? Yes? My how things come full circle.) Still, you sound like you've seen and done far more than I have. I lost my programming skills years ago (programming never really grabbed me). But I never lost my interest in being a user. These days I do IT customer support and software interface design. There's a little bit of programming on the side (scripting really; I write installers). I'm surrounded by computers and programmers. And what do I do when I come home from work? I sit at a computer and do flight sim stuff (which includes not only flying, but also working constantly on the AI stuff in my sim, as well as writing and editing XML code to fix and improve the gauges in my aircraft, etc, etc). Hehe, you'd think I'd be sick of computers after being at it all day at work ... so the last thing I'd want to do is come home and do it ... but, no, I love it.
But, we digress. |
Posted By: RayM
Date Posted: 08 May 2013 at 6:01pm
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VFR vs IFR and flight numbers.
I am coming in to this discussion a bit late I know but here goes. If you use AIFPC to make up flightplans manually, the rule is, if a flight is VFR, then a code letter 'R' and a code '0' (zero) go into the flightplan data whereas if a flight is IFR then a code letter 'F' and a code 'xxx' (where xxx is the flight number) go into the data. I always use AIFPC when there is a particular flightplan that I want to see ALL of the time and is not affected by the random percentage value that is generated by the Traffic X compiler every time you use it. AC#4010,HB-KET,30%,24h,VFR,10:38,11:08,29,R,0,LSGN,14:38,15:08,29,R,0,LSGN AC#1881,1214,20%,24h,IFR,00:33,00:55,220,F,184,LSMM,07:00,07:22,230,F,184,LSGS Note the 'VFR' / 'R,0' and 'IFR' / 'F,184' bits in these 2 lines of code (don't worry too much about the rest for now). The 1st aircraft will not ask for IFR clearance before it starts up its engines and ATC will refer to it by its registration HB-KET. The 2nd aircraft will ask for IFR clearance before starting its engines and ATC will refer to it by its flight number. I BELIEVE THIS IS THE WAY THINGS SHOULD BE IN FLIGHT SIMULATOR AS IN THE REAL WORLD. One of the many problems with Traffic X (and I suspect Traffic 360 will be the same) is that when the flightplans are compiled, irrespective of whether you have entered VFR or IFR in the appropriate box, all of the compiled flightplans contain the 'F' coding and none have an 'R' code! This can be discovered by reverse engineering a Traffic X / 360 '.bgl' file using AIFPC when you will discover the above discrepancy. Perhaps if Just Flight could sort this out they could also make the compiler accept the registration letters that users put into the flightplans rather than churn out all aircraft in the same flightplan set with the identical registration!!! 
I hope this helps the discussion. Ray ------------- A long time FSXA and Traffic X user |
Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 08 May 2013 at 10:28pm
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Good to have your input Ray. Hmmm, intriguing.
Traffic X (and therefore I will assume Traffic 360) use the tools and utilities from Microsoft's TRAFFIC TOOLBOX to create and compile the flight plans. The file SCHEDULES.DAT is created by the Traffic X program (and, again, I assume Traffic 360) which is then used to compile the AI traffic file. Interestingly, the SCHEDULES.DAT file does not contain any 'R' code or 'F' code in it. And Microsoft make no mention of an 'R' code and an 'F' code in their SDK and respective documentation which explains the various TRAFFIC TOOLBOX files, tools and utilities (link provided below). It therefore looks like the 'R' and 'F' codes are native only to the AIFPC program, and I'd guess they are therefore used by that program somehow just for its own coded internal purpose. Here is a snippet taken from my SCHEDULES.DAT file showing two flights ... a daily scheduled IFR flight and a daily scheduled VFR flight. Note there's no 'R' code or 'F' code. AC1113,083,20,ONE_DAY,VFR { 2115,YBTL,250,83 0135,YPDN,250,83 0555,YBTL,250,83 1015,YPDN,250,83 } AC1172,089,20,ONE_DAY,IFR { 0030,YWLM,250,89 1235,YPDN,250,89 } Information on the TRAFFIC TOOLBOX set of tools, including details on the syntax and structure of the SCHEDULES.DAT file, can be found here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526965.aspx - Micorosoft ESP TRAFFIC TOOLBOX Hint 1: It is possible to use Traffic X to create and modify flight plans (and respective files) for you, and then use ASCII based utilities such as Notepad to edit the files that get created. With an understanding of aircraft.cfg files, as well as a knowledge of the syntax and structure of the AI files which get generated by Traffic X, you can make appropriate edits to ensure you see individual flight plans you want to see ALL of the time, you can "fix" the random percentage value that is generated by the Traffic compiler every time you use it, you can fix tail registration numbers, you can configure things so that aircraft don't ask for IFR clearance before they start up their engines with ATC referring to them only by their respective tail registrations, or you can get aircraft to ask for IFR clearance before starting engines with ATC referring to them by the flight number. This is how I use the Traffic X program ... first, get it to make or modify the files (which, depending on requirements, may or may not include getting Traffic X to do a compile so that appropriate entries get added to files such as SCHEDULES.DAT), then I edit the files, lastly followed by me MANUALLY compiling the AI traffic using the "_COMPILE.BAT" file found in the Traffic X "Compiler" folder (I do not compile them from within the Traffic X program because that would "undo" the file edits I've made). And, of course, ALWAYS MAKE BACKUPS before modifying and manipulating files. Hint 2: Yes, you may observe that the aircraft tail registrations shown in that snippet of my SCHEDULES.DAT file above are indeed numbers as opposed to letters. The two flights shown are military flights and I've given them numbers as registrations, which incidentally match their flight number, on purpose. |
Posted By: RayM
Date Posted: 09 May 2013 at 9:04am
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Freddy,
I hear (see) what you say about using the SDK methods but, as far as I am concerned, the AIFPC technique is much more user friendly and allows more flexibility. For example, if you wanted to write a plan for one aircraft that consisted of a mixture of VFR and IFR sections, then using SDK you would need to write separate sections whereas AIFPC allows for this by the inclusion of the R and F codes. This may be something that the originator of Ttools (Lee?) added when he originally came up with these handy tools. I suspect the SDK compiler automatically creates inherent R and F codes without actually mentioning them. I haven't tried the SDK method but will do a test and see how it works. Re: Hint 1 - yes this what I do in my own way. Use Traffic X to create flightplans (remember that Traffic X works in 'local times'), decompile using AIFPC (times are now in UTC) and then edit (I use Excel) to 'correct' any anomalies. Finally I recompile using AIFPC. Re: Hint 2 - I have never understood why Traffic X asks you for an aircraft registration which it then completely ignores. Is it because, as I suspect, that all flights are considered as IFR types, in which case they think that the registration is not required, with ATC calling each aircraft by its flight number which does get included in the .bgl. Ray ------------- A long time FSXA and Traffic X user |
Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 10 May 2013 at 7:15am
Of that I have no doubt. The way I am doing it can be slow and frustrating, and you need to keep your wits about you. For me though, it's all I know because I was someone who really only got started with AI using the SDK methods. And I've not attempted the TTools way purely because FSX uses the SDK method by default, so I'll stick with it. Thankfully, I've become reasonably good at it and I'm quite comfortable with it now.
Hmmm. You could be right. It may indeed create inherent R and F codes without actually mentioning them. Although that said, it is my understanding that Microsoft (Aces) rewrote a lot of the AI code and a new SDK for the latest version of the sim (FSX). TTools was the "old" way of doing things (FS2004 and earlier). The "new" way uses the TrafficDatabaseBuilder.exe and takes the syntax and structure mentioned in the http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526965.aspx - Microsoft ESP TRAFFIC TOOLBOX documentation/SDK. I'm not all fully up with the details and history of it ... but, perhaps the rewrite of the AI stuff that was done meant that they did away with the R and F codes. However, given that it is still possible to use TTools to create AI traffic files, and given that R and F codes are used for that, AND it all still works in FSX, I really have no idea.
Hehehe. And I suspect that there are other people out there who, like us, do it this way as well (use the Traffic X or Traffic 360 program to create files, but then manually edit those files before manually doing their compile).
I too have no idea why they ask for a registration which they seemingly do not use. Well, it does kind of get used, just not correctly. THIS is probably the very crux of the original post. Depending on the flight setup, the registration may or may NOT be used by the ATC in the sim. And, when the registration is not used, the flight number (generally) is. Therefore, because Just Flight have not provided flight numbers for some flights, the result is that ATC ends up calling out "zero". |
RayM wrote:Posted By: RayM
Date Posted: 10 May 2013 at 6:19pm
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Freddy,
there you are then - I think this topic has gone full circle! 
I am in the middle of doing experimental plans using Traffic X and seeing what actually happens re VFR and IFR with and without flight numbers - this is a bit of a mess when you put it into FSX. I am going to repeat the same plans using AIFPC to see what FSX does then. If the results look interesting, I will post here later. Ray ------------- A long time FSXA and Traffic X user |
Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 11 May 2013 at 12:41am
I was thinking the same thing.
Careful, (he says sarcastically), that's the way I started the journey toward trying to understand all things AI - experimentation and testing. But it's a lot of fun. |
Posted By: RayM
Date Posted: 15 May 2013 at 2:04pm
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I won't guarantee that my test results are totally conclusive, but, after 'exhaustive' testing, I have to say that when picking 'VFR' or 'IFR' for flightplans when programming in Traffic X (I assume the same is happening in 360), what you get depends on the existence of an entry "ATC_Airline=xxxxx" in the chosen aircraft's 'aircraft.cfg' file. (I do not think the "ATC_ID=" value plays any part in this.)
If there is no entry (or is blank after the equals sign) and you program VFR then the aircraft behaves for VFR i.e. starts engine, requests departure and uses registration for ident. It will do this even if there is a flight no. programmed. If you program IFR, the a/c will request IFR clearance, start engine and request taxi - it will still use the registration for ident. If there is an entry (which will be an airline ATC name, Air Force or such like) and you program VFR, but with a flight number as 0 (zero), the a/c will behave as a VFR i.e. starts engine and requests departure. But it will use 0 (zero) as its ident. If you do program a flight number, it will use that as ident. If there is an entry (which will be an airline ATC name, Air Force or such like) and you program IFR, but with a flight number as 0 (zero), the a/c will behave as a IFR, the a/c will request IFR clearance, start engine and request taxi - it will use 0 as the flight number. If you do program a flight number, it will then use that as ident. Be aware that, because the ATC_airline= entry exists for each variation of aircraft, you can, if you are the same as me, have some variations within one aircraft type that have entries and some that do not (e.g. default Cessna 208), which may throw this system into confusion if you allow Traffic X (or 360) to pick aircraft out for you by selecting in the "Aircraft Type" field and not a specific aircraft by selecting in the "Aircraft" field. But nothing is perfect is it? Hope this helps anyone who is still listening. Ray ------------- A long time FSXA and Traffic X user |
Posted By: FabioL
Date Posted: 15 May 2013 at 2:14pm
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Hi,
Yes, many thanks, this is most useful. I'm hoping that JF are also listening in on this, as this is an area that needs addressing in the SP. Thanks again, Fabio |
Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 16 May 2013 at 8:20am
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Nice work RayM. You will notice that the word "airline" is in the "ATC_airline=" entry. In FSX, airlines use flight numbers, and ATC will call the airline name (if it can match it in its ATC database) AND the flight number. Having something in the "ATC_airline=" field indicates to FSX that this aircraft is part on an airline (and thus its flight number should be used by ATC to identify it) ... regardless of whether it is VFR or IFR.
Along these lines, an issue arises when the "ATC_airline" field does have information entered, but that information does NOT match the airline names in the ATC database. In this case ATC will call only the flight number. And, if that is 0, then you will only hear ATC call "ZERO". Further, if the name entered in to that field DOES match the airline names in the ATC database, AND the flight number is 0, then ATC will call the airline name followed by the flight number, "zero" ... for example, "Singapore zero" or "Air Force zero". From this, obviously, it is important to make sure anything entered in the "ATC_airline=" field DOES match the ATC database ... if you want to hear the airline name correctly called out (followed by the flight number [which you want to make sure is not 0]). Or, you can be inventive and have it NOT match the ATC database (you may, on purpose, decide you do not want to hear it call out an airline name, but wish to use this field for your own other naming convention purposes) ... but in this case, make sure you DO have a flight number that is NOT zero. As you have noted, there are other variations that can be used and may come in to play depending on other circumstances, but the "airline" one is worth storing away in the memory banks as one works with AI. |
Posted By: Soaranden
Date Posted: 16 May 2013 at 3:52pm
Yes, kudos to you, Ray, for doing the testing and for posting the results of your testing here.
Yes, I recently experienced an unusual (or, as you say, "inventive") use of the "atc_airline=" line. I recently downloaded some additional liveries for the FSX default Cessna 208B. (As many of you already know, nearly all of the aircraft I use for AI flights are either user aircraft that I have downloaded/purchased or user aircraft that came with FSX/Acceleration). Each of the new liveries that I downloaded for the 208B were created by the same person, and each of the new liveries included an aircraft.cfg "atc_airline=" entry that contained the aircraft's registration number rather than an airline name. (No "atc_id=" entry was present). After using Traffic X to set up some VFR flights for the new liveries and to assign flight numbers for each AI flight plan, I found ATC would call out only the flight number that I had assigned. The inventive "atc_airline=" line containing the registration number, was ignored by ATC. Dan |
Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 16 May 2013 at 11:44pm
Yes, the "ATC_airline=" line containing the registration number would be ignored by ATC because the registration number DOES not have a valid match in the ATC database. So there's no airline name for ATC to say, and it thus simply skips that bit and says the flight number. Yep, this would be an example of an "inventive" way to use the "ATC_airline=" field for your own other naming convention purposes. ----------------------------- Another section of the airline.cfg file enables ATC to say the aircraft TYPE correctly ("Saab", "Fokker", "F-18", etc). Whilst that is not part of THIS discussion here, it's probably worth a mention. I posted some detailed information on this a while back in the Traffic X forum. Note that I said "Traffic X". The methods discussed in the post I've linked to below are about adding aircraft in to Traffic X ... the methods for adding aircraft in to Traffic 360 may be different. (As I do not have Traffic 360, I do not know if the methods are in fact the same, or not). Here is a link to the post ... http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=14602 - How to get FSX ATC to say/speak the name of the aircraft correctly |
Posted By: FabioL
Date Posted: 17 May 2013 at 7:15am
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Thanks, this is all very useful.
I must confess that I've not kept up with the discussion as it went slightly above my capacity. If the principle issues and fixes were to be re-listed as bullets, what would they be, with a view to eliminating the dreaded ZERO call sign, and if we're to search for blank entries in cfg files, what is the best way if achieving this? Fabio |
Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 17 May 2013 at 8:16am
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The original post was about ATC saying the word ZERO for flights. Or, specifically, how to FIX or STOP the ATC from saying the word "ZERO". It would be true to say that the thread has stayed basically on course, but has diverted a little here and there along the way.
For principal bullet points, I'd think that my opinion on what I'd consider to be the main point(s) MAY be different from what OTHERS who have contributed to this thread might think are the main points. I realise that would seemingly indicate there is probably more than one way to achieve the goal. Well, based on my experiences with AI, and the knowledge of how AI works in the sim that I have built up over time since the first day I ran Traffic X, I can assure you that yes, there is certainly more than one way to achieve the goal. That said, for me, the main point (not points, plural) would be the one which best provides a definitive way to stop the ATC from calling out ZERO. And, for me, that would be this: • Make sure that every single flight (ie, every single flight plan) in Traffic 360 is set with it's own unique flight number. Period. This way you can be sure that you never hear "ZERO" again, regardless of whether a flight is IFR, VFR, an airliner, a GA plane, has correct or incorrect details entered in to the aircraft.cfg file, or, whatever. If every single flight has a flight number, then you can be 100% certain, in every case, that you will never hear ATC call out "ZERO". OK, so that might be all well and good for me to suggest that, but the problem then becomes this: Well then, what's the easiest and best way to achieve that? Sadly, I don't have a simple answer to that question. Suffice to say, you can use Excel to open up the flight plan files and do your edits, or another fancy ASCII text editor such as Notepad++ ... and use the SEARCH-AND-REPLACE tools in such packages to achieve the results. But, as much as I am very good at using these packages in my IT work environment, that does not make me an expert who is able to provide a good method or guide on how to best achieve the goal. I recall doing the edits in Traffic X a long time ago, using a (clumsy) combination of Excel and the Traffic X interface. I don't remember the specifics of exactly what I did, but I do recall that it took me ages. Perhaps others here will have some bullet points and suggestions to offer ... |
Posted By: FabioL
Date Posted: 17 May 2013 at 8:36am
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Many thanks; I was, some time ago, the thread OP.
Whenever I hear flight numbers without airline names, or the call sign zero, I fire up Super Traffic Board to get a handle on the aircraft in question, with a view to providing me with an airline name that does not confirm to EditVoicePak's airline names text file (thus, with a made up example, "Thomson Old Colours" would be easy to find and adjust, but zero does not define anything searchable. I will post a screenshot to show what I mean). Populating all flight numbers is a never-ending Herculean task, especially if one then recompiles the T360 traffic BGL when adjustments are made, which essentially means adjusting textual data within the T360 database data files as opposed to the simobjects T360 installed data? I have already forwarded the screenshot to Martyn at JF. Basically, if JF are still following this thread, could you populate the fields according to the findings of this thread in the SP, and please post your thoughts on this issue? Thanks, Fabio |
Posted By: freddy
Date Posted: 17 May 2013 at 8:49am
Hehe, ahhh yes, so you were!
I use EditvoicePack. I understand what you're doing there.
Correct. You would edit the textual data within the database data files. Not the files in simobjects. I don't have Traffic 360, but if it is like Traffic X, the simobjects stuff that you are talking about is where you'd find the aircraft.cfg files, and liveries. There's no need to edit those if your plan is to add flight numbers to each and every flight. As far a compiling goes, at least with Traffic X, you take BACKUPS of all the files first, then make all of your edits, saving as you go ... and then compile ONCE only, when all the edits are done and finished. Editing the files to add flight numbers to ALL flights is Herculean as you say, but there's only one compile required, at the end, once the job is done (that is to say if Traffic 360 works similarly to Traffic X). |
Posted By: Soaranden
Date Posted: 17 May 2013 at 11:44pm
There seem to be two separate questions being asked here. The first question relates directly to flight numbers. The second question is more general in nature. With regard to the first question, freddy and I have emphasized that it is an airline's tcc file or a country's VFR or armed forces tcc file that contains flight plan flight numbers. Examining a tcc file in a spreadsheet provides both the opportunity to spot missing flight numbers and the opportunity to add a unique flight number to any flight plan that has a missing or non-unique flight number. Although the second question is unrelated to a tcc file's flight plan flight numbers, it's an interesting question, and I'll go ahead and provide an answer. Please understand that I am no longer discussing flight plan flight numbers. Per your second question, I am changing the discussion to blank entries in aircraft.cfg files (under the assumption that you were thinking "aircraft.cfg" when you mentioned "cfg" files...an assumption that I make because I had already shown how to spot blank flight numbers by opening a tcc file in a spreadsheet). In all likelihood, the only blank or missing entries in aircraft.cfg files will be contained within the sections that describe each livery. Although a text editor could be used, I find AI-Aircraft Editor to be easier and faster...both to spot missing or incorrect data and to make changes to that data. Here's a simple example: Within AI-Aircraft Editor, I selected B737_800. (I use the default 737 as an AI aircraft, and I have 69 liveries for it). Selecting B737_800 within AI-Aircraft Editor opened the 737's aircraft.cfg file. I noticed that there were differences among liveries for the "ui_createdby" entry. Most liveries showed "Microsoft Corporation," but there were some liveries where "ui_createdby" was blank. There was also one livery that showed Microsoft Corporation plus the livery painter's name. I wanted to make "Microsoft Corporation," and only "Microsoft Corporation," show in the "ui_createdby" entry of all 737 liveries. I double-clicked one of the liveries in the AI-Aircraft Editor's upper window. This enabled me to edit the "ui_createdby" entry within the "General data" tab. With "Microsoft Corporation" present in the editable "ui_createdby" field, I clicked the "A" button to the right of the field, which, as the caption in the screenshot below indicates, updates "ui_createdby" entries for all liveries within the 737's aircraft.cfg file. The below screenshot shows the results immediately after updating. Of course, not everything is visible at the same time in the upper window. There are scrollbars that must be used to see everything.  Although I've read documentation stating that a backup of the aircraft.cfg is made before AI-Aircraft Editor makes any changes to the file, I haven't been able to find the location of backup files after making changes. Therefore, I suggest manually backing up the aircraft.cfg file before making alterations to it with AI-Aircraft Editor. After using AI-Aircraft Editor to modify the 737's aircraft.cfg file, examination of the file in a text editor showed that "ui_createdby" entries showed "Microsoft Corporation" in the data for each and every livery. In cases where there had been no "ui_createdby" line for a livery, a "ui_createdby=Microsoft Corporation" line was appended to the end of the livery's data. The latest version of Martin Grossman's AI-Aircraft Editor can be downloaded from: http://www.interkultur.de/gossmann/fsx/tools.php - The Owl's Nest - AI-Aircraft Editor Dan |
Posted By: RayM
Date Posted: 18 May 2013 at 11:13am
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Freddy,
your suggestion of putting Flight Numbers into every flight plan (even if you are setting up a VFR flight) would carry on the Just Flight thinking - they seem to have gone down this path - I can't dispute this method even though it is not logical to have flt numbers for VFR. Soaranden, regarding AI-Aircraft-Editor, my system ALWAYS creates a backup file with a ".owl" extension. If you go to the Settings Menu and put a 'Tick' in the "Auto Backup aircraft.cfg", this should do the trick for you. FabioL, as you will have realised, not only is using FSX to dash all over the world in your favourite aircraft a stimulating experience, but if you get into the peripherals of flight programming, re-painting and modifying airfield layouts, there are hours of joy (???) and frustration to be had by all. Note for Just Flight's attention (if they look at this, that is) - would it be possible to put a code into each flight plan that forces the Compiler to put a low percentage figure into the bgl file so that the particular flight will ALWAYS show? I like to set up some special flights that I want to see every time I compile. At the moment , I use AIFPC to achieve this but Traffic X or 360 could also do this with a very minor change to the coding. Ray ------------- A long time FSXA and Traffic X user |
Posted By: FabioL
Date Posted: 18 May 2013 at 12:40pm
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Hi Ray,
I'm a long long long long term simmer, from IBM PC XT days, and I'm a lapsed PPL/IMC; flight sim is the closest that I can get to flying, so the better we can all make it with our combined know-how and determination, the better it will become. And it is very good indeed, IMHO. I remember Hercules monochrome (green on black) wire frame; simply compare that to what we have now! Best wishes, and many thanks, Fabio |
Posted By: Soaranden
Date Posted: 18 May 2013 at 2:57pm
Ray, thanks. Actually, everything in settings was ticked already. I think I know why I did not see the backup, yesterday (even though I had been looking in the correct location for the backup). I'm seeing the backup, today. Dan |