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British Muslim Opinions & Statistics NOPSurvey 06
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roachy View Drop Down
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Points: 1038 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roachy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2009 at 7:03pm
It depends entirely on what your opinion of extreme is really Embarrassed
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Originally posted by roachy roachy wrote:

It depends entirely on what your opinion of extreme is really Embarrassed


The ones that dont say suicide bombings were justified are non extreme in my book Smile i kinda took the others as thinking they would be enjoying theor virgins about now

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Odai View Drop Down
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Points: 3731 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2009 at 12:46am
I'm sorry for the late response, I'm currently supposed to be on holiday, but my workload hasn't shifted.
 
Quote What worries me is not the number, it could be 500. . . it could even be 100 for all I care, the fact is it was a survey of the general public and I beleive that there would be more who agree with the claims but have just not been recorded.
 
That response is completely unjustified Chris! It is a fundamental fact in mathematical statistics that a significantly large sample size is required to create an accurate statistical model of a population. 500 out of a couple million is not that!!! Heck, forget maths, it's common sense! So, you belief that there could be more Muslims who believe the attacks were justified is complete guesswork. No evidence whatsoever. If a decent survey was carried out, and according to a known statistical test the numbers of Muslims believeing the attacks to be justified is significant, then you could take this and apply it to the rest of the population. But this isn't the case, is it? Besides, you can tell from things we already know this is highly unlikely, without a statistical test.
 
And Chris, best to actually link the official source of the survey in question. We don't want any manipulations of what we're discussing in the first place.
 
Quote The only question you have never answered which I have asked you, is that if here in Britain we're all stupid and your homeland (which ever it may be) is fine and there are no problems with it e.g. regarding womens rights etc.  Why do you still live here?  There are a respectabl number of Muslims that complain about Britain, you see it all the time in the news or even in person, but they STILL choose to live here.
 
Two things. Firstly, the idea you and Vulcan have of a 'homeland'. You know already from previous discussions how I see this is a completely backward and illogical idea. Secondly, I've basically already responded to most of what you've written, haven't I?
 
Quote I have said this, but its people who think 7/7 was justifiable and people who think we should intergrate Sharia Law with British Law which makes my blood boil.
 
People trying to justify the murder of innocents is one thing, but to complain about people trying to implement a system of law (that you do not adequately understand) which could be an improvement on the current law, and to apply it to themselves, is another. You're trying to compare apples and towers (apples and oranges is stupid, they're both fruits).
 
Quote My worry is that if this survey was from the general public, even if the amount asked is small, how many more agree but just havnt been asked?
 
But the point is the survey is completely insignificant!!!! You should totally ignore it, that's what I'm saying. Let's assume there are a thousand white pedophiles in the world. By your logic, even though there are billions of other white people who aren't pedophiles, there should be concern about white people becoming pedophiles.
 
If I go to the poorest areas of Liverpool, and interview 100 chavs about the latest political issues, and form a model of how intelligible their responses are, would you say it's fair to conclude from this that because a vast majority of the participants were stupid, a majority of Northeners know nothing about the world around them? 
 
Quote Now you're getting personal. This is my country. It's my right to moan about it. Angry
 
Oh no.... This is actually quite worrying. Ouch Let me tell you something, you seriously need to get out of this mentality.
 
Do you own this country? Were you responsible for building everything here? Are you responsible for administering all of it's resources? Do you own absolutely any of it other than the land your house is sitting on?
 
Thought not.
 
Now, what makes it "your country" but not the country of the people who complain about it? Enlighten me, I clearly seem to be missing something? Confused
 
Quote I know i have said it before but i just want to know do the non extreme muslims belive that them suicide bombers really made it to paradise?

 
Like I told you a thousand times in the last thread about this, why don't you ask a genuine muslim source?
 
Lucky for you, I'll keep my patience. The people you refer to clearly believe they are martys, dying for a justifiable, religious cause. A martyr in Islam, AFAIK, does got to paradise. Whether they are martyrs or not however, is the question you should be asking. I think the answer is a no.  
 
 
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Flightboy View Drop Down
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Points: 7396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2009 at 7:16am
"genuine muslim source"

 Odai thanks for your reply, on thinking about it i know why i would never get a honest reply from 99% of muslims i could ask and to be honest i dont blame them! If i was in their position would i answer a fairly big built, blue eyed, blonde haired, white male from london and say that i honestly thought suicide bombers did go to paradise? i dont think so! .

Kinda answered my own question but thanks for the reply anyway

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Odai View Drop Down
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Points: 3731 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2009 at 11:22am
Eh? Confused The point of my response was that the vast majority would not believe the people you perceive as "terrorists" are martyrs, and would therefore not go to paradise. Or have I misunderstood your reply?
 
A good example is the children murdered by Israeli army operations. They are commonly referred to as "martyrs" as they have been murdered in this war.
 
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737Chris View Drop Down
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Points: 2247 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 737Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2009 at 6:02pm
Urch.  I cant keep up with this battle of opinion.

All I posted were some statistics, a couple of which worry me.  Odai your idea about intergrating Sharia Law is stupid, and luckily would never get through Pariliament.

I told everybody to interpret the post themselves and that you shouldnt base all opinion/thoughts around it.

This business about terrorists / martyrs I cant commend on because I lost interest in it.
 
Im entitled to my opinion and you can't take that away from me, even though I rekon secretly you desire us all here to believe what you want us to believe.

Regards.
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Flightboy View Drop Down
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Points: 7396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 7:06am
The point of my response was that the vast majority would not believe the people you perceive as "terrorists" are martyrs, and would therefore not go to paradise

I dont know if i agree with that but thanks for your opinion, as i said above even if they thought that were indeed martyrs i think it unlikley they wouldever say or admit it ( and neither would i )


 
A good example is the children murdered by Israeli army operations. They are commonly referred to as "martyrs" as they have been murdered in this war.

And im not even going there..........

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roachy View Drop Down
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Points: 1038 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roachy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 6:39pm
A good example is the children murdered by Israeli army operations
 
Please remember Odai, there's a huge difference between killing and murder. I'm sure children have been killed by Israeli army operations, but this would'nt've been intentional, so its definitely not murder!
 
They are commonly referred to as "martyrs" as they have been murdered in this war.
 
So the war is all about religion then? I thought you told me that it wasn't a war about religion when it was discussed in a previous thread.
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Odai View Drop Down
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Points: 3731 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2009 at 10:40pm

Roachy, no, not really. It's going a bit far to say just because they are considered martyrs, the whole war is about religion. There are religious elements, but they are far smaller than you'd expect, like I said.

As for intentional killings, this is a very widely known fact. Whilst the majority of deaths may not be attributed to deliberate murders, a vast number are. I'm quite shocked to say the least that you are not aware of this, some of the incidents were publicised quite a lot on the news duing the invasion of Gaza in January.
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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