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"Ecstacy no more dangerous than horse riding"

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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Ecstacy no more dangerous than horse riding"
    Posted: 07 Feb 2009 at 2:19pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7876425.stm

You can't argue the facts. I'll bet more people take ecstacy every week than horse ride.

My biggest issue with drugs is the crime created by people getting money together for their next fix. Beyond that, if people want to kill themselves, that's for them to decide.

Smoking is legal, and is very deadly (look at how many people die from smoking related causes every year!) yet drugs are frowned upon.

I'm going to be extremely controversial here: I think drugs should be available via controlled outlets. It will cut crime, reduce the cost, and the government can even take tax out of it, thus increasing tax revenues.

Society can still slate drugs (i.e. make it an offence to operate any machinery beyond a coffee machine, drive, work, etc..) whilst under the influence of drugs, but otherwise, let people if they wish.

It's not going to change peoples behavior - those who would do it are doing so already. People can be helped to get off drugs through this method, too, as it is usually a sign of other deeper problems anyway (and creator of bigger problems, such as psychosis, schitzophrenia and other mental health issues).

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2009 at 3:26pm

Smoking is legal, and is very deadly (look at how many people die from smoking related causes every year!) yet drugs are frowned upon.

 

True Pointy, but the last thing we need is more drugs available that modify the way the brain functions and engender a state of utter idiocy. The ability to control our basic urges is a function of the region at the front of our brains, developed over millions of years; it's what separates us from instinctive animals. Makes no sense to turn it off. More mind altering drugs in society is bad news.

 

Your suggestions would vastly increase the amount of drugs use in society. There has to be a deterrent and the will to limit the number of mind altering substances out there.

 

if you look back in history to times and in regions where drug use was rampant and uncontrolled you see breakdown in society.

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Rich View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2009 at 3:59pm
 
I don't think there is any real crime that can attributed to people taking Cocaine or Ecstasy. Its not really an addictive habit for most takers (I'm excluding Crack Cocaine here) as it's most often taken as a recreational drug at the weekends. The only crime that can often be associated with it is the same sort of stuff as you get with the usual weekend boozing. In fact, Ecstasy is similar to Cannabis in that it's a pacifying drug rather than being violence inducing like alcohol is. The vast majority of drug taking causes no issues for the general public unless the user is doing something stupid like driving under the influence (I would suggest that the same ratio between drinkers and drivers probably applies here).
I've swung both ways on the issuing of legalising/relaxing drug control. The biggest question for me is which one is the biggest issue - people taking drugs or the staggering amounts of cash that dealers make through selling it (an old school friend of mine is a big time dealer and owns a string of houses and legit businesses now and I'd hazard a guess that he is a millionaire a couple of times over now Angry). People are always going to take drugs whether they are legal or not so I'd love to see an end to all the illegal income but on the other hand it sends the wrong message to "encourage" their use by legitimising them. Parents need all the help they can get keeping drugs away from their kids.
A very tricky subject!
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2009 at 5:08pm
Quote Your suggestions would vastly increase the amount of drugs use in society.

I said "from controlled sources", meaning if I just walked up and said "I want buy an oz of cannabis" they'd tell me to go away without prior proof of having taken it already.

I see this method of a way of reducing usage/depenedence, and making acquisition of it legal and prevent it escalating to more potent drugs.

Maybe I'm being too idealistic, and I realize it won't stop the illegal drug trade completely, but it might make illegal drug dealing not worth the risk.

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Vulcan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RossUK1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 2009 at 8:58pm

The thing with Ecstacy is you dont know what else is in that little tablet?  Rat poison, drain cleaner, viagra etc. 

In my job I have dealt with loads of people under the influence of Ecstacy and Cannabis and to say its a "pacifying" drug is not correct.  Although I must say the far worst drug that affects peoples behaviour and has the biggest impact on society is definitely alcohol.
 
Its a really tough one to crack this problem, what is the crime rate in Amsterdam?
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2009 at 1:16pm

I'm going to be extremely controversial here: I think drugs should be available via controlled outlets. It will cut crime, reduce the cost, and the government can even take tax out of it, thus increasing tax revenues.

 
You said ‘drugs to be available from controlled sources’ and that the government would 'take tax out of it’. So the drug addict would have to buy it. So where do they get the money from? Isn't that one of the factors that promotes crime? In that they have to commit crimes to get the money for the drug in the first instance? Unless you expect the tax payer to buy it for them?

 

We already have a situation where drugs are illegal, but heroine addicts are given methadone, that has a similar effect to get the addiction under control.

 

As for drugs like cannabis it's not that addictive. There's more 'choice' as to whether the user takes it. Illegality and enforcement encourages that.

 

We have enough trouble with drunken motorist without legalising other drugs that have a similar effect.

 

I AM for all mind altering drugs being illegal. And give a thought to people like Ross that have to clean up society's mess.


 

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767nutter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 767nutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2009 at 3:06pm
Well prof nutt certainly lives upto his name,
 
the fact that ;
horse-riding accounted for about 10 deaths a year and was associated with more than 100 road accidents
 
Is mainly down to drivers ignorance.
The highway code clearly states that driving past a horse should be done as slow as possible and in the lowest gear possible to keep noise to a minimum.
My wife has been riding horses since she was a little girl, she has told me plenty of times how drivers just zoom past, some are even real idiots and blast their horn if the rider does not get out of the way quick enough. Horses are easily startled and their insticnt is flight, not fight.
 
So i think this comparison is stupid
 
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737Chris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 737Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2009 at 3:40pm
Im edging towards the side of "against" your Idea vulcan, but I understand where you're coming from.

What irritates me is that if I had an eigth of weed in my pocket which i intend to go home and smoke

I could get charged with possession of a class B and have a criminal record.  But somebody could be carring a 200 pack of Marlboro and its completely legal.
Cannabis is conciderably less physically dangerous than smoking, or drinking I beleive. 
The reason why ciggrettes are legal ??   Money !  Money !  Money !
I know there are mental effects to cannabis, but I still beleive your way more likely to mess up your health with cigerettes.

Its the dealing and obtaining of any drug which concerns me.   It causes so much trouble to people and the local community

I cant really comment on ecstacy, dont know much about it.  But I think that "scientific" study needs reviewing.

Your idea of "controlled handouts"  . . . . .two words, "wishfull thinking" 
I think this would vastly increase drug use and that (which ever way you look at it) is a bad thing.

I also agree with 767nutter, comparing these two activities is laughable.

Best outcome for me?   Ban what causes so many cases of cancer and cloggs up he NHS. . . .ciggerettes
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2009 at 4:47pm
You've dragged that one up from February lads?
 
Big%20smile
 
Pointy has probably changed his mind since then.
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767nutter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 767nutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2009 at 11:35pm
Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

You've dragged that one up from February lads?
 
Big%20smile
 
Pointy has probably changed his mind since then.
 
Well i was looking for a topic i started a while back for another recent topic and i saw this and just laughed
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