This forum is in read-only mode for archive purposes, please use our new forum at https://community.justflight.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Just Flight Products > Tornado GR1
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - In flight refuelling - how to do it?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

In flight refuelling - how to do it?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
clivedrake View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Location: Woking, Surrey
Points: 51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clivedrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: In flight refuelling - how to do it?
    Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 11:32am
This is probably a silly request but does anyone have any advice on how to successfully connect the probe to the drogue?

I seem to either spend my time about 1 km behind the tanker, crashing into it or going up and down like a yo-yo.  I find the HUD speed display difficult to read against a bright sky.  I think red would be a better colour.

Any advice on settings or technique would be really appreciated.  I have seen some YouTube videos on starting and flying the Tornado, but none on refuelling successfully.

Do any exist?

Thank you.
Clive
Back to Top
Uncle Bucc View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff
Avatar

Joined: 08 Oct 2016
Location: Peterborough,UK
Points: 45
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Uncle Bucc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017 at 2:04pm
I do believe that there is a video on You Tube on In-Flight refuelling for the JF Tornado.

I used FSX Tornado as my 'fuzzy' search and it does exist.  Good luck, I do believe that it is quite a skill to master even on easy mode.

Back to Top
clivedrake View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Location: Woking, Surrey
Points: 51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clivedrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2017 at 5:34pm
Thank you for your help.  I have spent part of the afternoon looking for suitable YT videos, this is probably the most useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Hkwtmi0CY

P.S  for info I searched YT for " inflght refuelling + Just Flight " to find the initial video and then followed the ones presented hen that one had finished.
Clive
Back to Top
tucanto View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Points: 46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tucanto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 12:26pm
My problem is I can get the Fuel probe out (switch right panel) but can not get it to go back in when
 I close switch ? 
Back to Top
clivedrake View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Location: Woking, Surrey
Points: 51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clivedrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 8:59am
In the manual page 53, item 35 it explains about the in flight refuelling probe.

Using the mouse, 1 x left click extends the probe, 1 x RIGHT click retracts it.  BUT, if you left click the extension button a second time, the probe is in emergency mode and will not retract again.

So far no-one has said they can refuel.  I have seen a number of videos showing how it has been nearly done but no one has done it.

I think the throttle control is not precise enough to allow for the air speed to be adjusted to tanker speed +/- 1 knot.

Good luck,

Tregarth
Clive
Back to Top
tucanto View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Points: 46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tucanto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 2:52pm
Thanks for that, left click opened right click closed. Obviously AAR takes a lot of practice I wonder if using
Autopilot to regulate speed may help ?
Back to Top
clivedrake View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Location: Woking, Surrey
Points: 51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clivedrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 3:14pm
If you find a way to do it, please tell me.  I have tried using the Saitek Throttle quadrant to control the throttle as I think the X52 Pro stick throttle is too coarse but this does not make any difference.  I have set the seetings to Easy but still no ucces.

Good luck
Clive
Back to Top
Delta558 View Drop Down
First Officer
First Officer

Just Flight FDE Developer

Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Points: 383
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2017 at 5:05pm
One thing that caused problems with the aircraft in sim is the realistic throttle range - on the real thing, dry thrust is only the first 50% of the throttle movement and the rest is the variable afterburner. That is copied here, so in dry thrust you only have 50% of the range and therefore need to make smaller movements for the same percentage RPM change compared to other aircraft.

I'd suggest setting everything to max realism rather than easy and also make sure that your controller axes are set to max sensitivity with minimal null zones - that's how the aircraft was developed so should give you a firm base to start from, the default settings do not give you anywhere near the precision needed.

Cheers,
Paul.
 
Back to Top
clivedrake View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Location: Woking, Surrey
Points: 51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clivedrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 10:12am
Thank you very much for this useful advice which I have printed off. 

I accept that my piloting skill needs improvement (one reason why I try to do it) but do you have any other guidance to offer?

Thanks again.
Clive
Back to Top
mlb406 View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Location: Lincolnshire
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlb406 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 6:02pm
Totally stumped with this one guys. I have set everything to be as it should in the checklist, I hope anyway. I have tried multiple difficulty settings in the instructor TV screen, my settings are on realistic, I am completely clueless as to why it isn't working for me. I have just uploaded a video to show devs/people more knowledgable on the subject the config I was in, and if they can help with this: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct1HNeIrw9U&feature=youtu.be.

It would be interesting to hear from someone who has done this successfully, to see what we are missing.

Max

Back to Top
clivedrake View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Location: Woking, Surrey
Points: 51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clivedrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 4:05pm
I accept a "bad workman always blames his tools" but I have decided that I cannot do it and have stopped.

I think my problem is speed control:  To my mind this is in part because the IAS display on the HUD is very hard to read against a pale blue or white background, consequently I cannot easily see if the plane is too fast or too slow and am slow to make the necessary correction.

I asked JF if they could make the digits darker (different shade of green) or change them to red (the tanker distance info is shown in red and is very legible).  JF suggested flying with darker weather.

One other thought is to have an extra panel just for the small speed increment switch (manual page 76 #3 and display #5).  If you have the left forward console showing there is not a lot of space to see the rest of the cockpit so an extra, small panel would be good.

I would like to see  a video produced by JF's test pilots showing how they do it.  It is interesting that the images used in the Tornado sales page only show the plane near the drogue, but not connected to it.  (I doubt the RAF say to the trainee pilot, "There is a Tornado, go and refuel in flight - on your own.")

When I started to use the Tornado I could not find all the switches listed in the tutorial so I asked JF if they would produce a promotional "how to start" video which they did.  This was distributed on the PCPilot cover disc.  Hopefully an inflight refuelling video will follow.

If you want to see how the RAF do it have a look at these two You Tubes and one recommended by JF.

In Flight refuel tutorial

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Hkwtmi0CY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAryyxyaDAw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU-o6CiPu5c#t=3243.965369

Supplied by Just Flight 20/2/17
https://youtu.be/69Tl90d56HM?t=1m38s

Any guidance will be very gratefully received.
Clive
Back to Top
mlb406 View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Location: Lincolnshire
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlb406 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 6:19pm
Clive,

It should not be an issue that you cannot see the speed for in flight refuelling. You should be flying using the tanker aircraft as reference, so essentially not looking at the instruments at all. Still, I have tried time and time again to get this to work, so I am questioning its achievability.

Max
Back to Top
Delta558 View Drop Down
First Officer
First Officer

Just Flight FDE Developer

Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Points: 383
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 7:22pm
Don't forget, you will never get the probe to stay in the basket - in real life the drogue would move to an extent with the movement of the receiver aircraft in all three axes. In the sim, that movement is still present but because the probe and drogue cannot be 'held together' you just have to ignore that visual cue, stop trying to keep the two totally in contact and aim to keep your probe within the small imaginary box around the drogue which is where you can obtain fuel from.
Back to Top
clivedrake View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew


Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Location: Woking, Surrey
Points: 51
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clivedrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 10:14am
Max,

I agree completely, a good pilot flies by eye, not by gauges.  That said the HUD is still a useful indication of what is going on, if it is hard to read it just makes life that much harder.

I have tried to make my hardware that much more sensitive to control the thrust (and air speed) but cannot do it.  I find two things significant:

1.  The Tornado is equipped with a fine speed control for speed increments so presumably the RAF have found the Tornado's throttle control is too coarse.  They would not have this control in the plane for no reason.

2.  I have scoured YouTube for a video of successful flight sim in flight refuelling and cannot find one.  Not even JF or the developers have posted one (which if they could do it they would certainly have done simply to show off) so, like you I don't think it can be done.

Points for trying but I think it is more for the developers to show how good the code is than people to successfully refuel.

This leads me to the point that JF have said they will upgrade their addons for use with P3D v4.  Perhaps whilst doing this the HUD display cold be made more legible and a new speed increment gauge could be added.  It is already on the panel (manual page 76 #3 and display #5) so could it not be separated out to make it more usable?  PLEASE.
Clive
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down