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TriStar [Pro] - Commissioning Log [P3Dv3]

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    Posted: 18 Oct 2016 at 9:29pm
Hi All,

I'd been hankering after a TriStar for a while [read: since about 20 minutes after getting back into simming], so took advantage of the fab weekend deal and added the TriStar professional to my fleet.

I will start by saying that very quickly, I've become very fond of it. So far, I've made short test flights, hand flying and with basic autopilot configuration (selections more than L&VNAV), and it's got under my skin. It's made me fall in love all over again with steam gauges and quirky & manic early automation. I think the vast majority of the package is great, and I fully expect to spend many happy hours on its flight deck. (In no small part smiling at the madness of it all!)

That said, I've made some observations of a few issues; none of them absolute show-stoppers, but perhaps the difference between pretty good and excellent.

First is the panel selection gauge. My initial thought, which I admit is quite subjective, is that the arrow button to open the selector is a bit of an eye-sore (particularly in external views); but I wasn't too phased given that this was only my opinion, and I figured I could probably fiddle with the texture so as to turn it into a transparent click spot. Unfortunately however, I haven't got that far, as the gauge is misbehaving a bit. I click the arrow button, and the selector opens, but clicking the 'X' to close it has no effect; dragging it away (and a bit more fiddling) yields a better view of what happens...

The first click on X actually removes the arrow button, another click brings it back; clicking the X again does nothing (closing the selector or removing the arrow). Right-clicking on the selector and closing the window closes the selector, leaving the arrow button which can be used to re-open the selector. When it re-opens, the arrow button vanishes again, so the X button must be clicked in order to restore it before closing the selector in the right-click menu (or when it closes there will be no way to re-open it). As it stands, it can be worked-around, but it's a bit clumsy; and it makes my idea for a transparent click spot infinitely more likely to frustrate, because you'd have to check the mouse pointer changed (to the hand) to ensure the click spot was reinstated before closing the selector. It feels like parent/child window stuff is getting mixed up in the loop; and probably wouldn't take much code to resolve?

I did consider fiddling with the panel to disable the selector gauge (and its persistent arrow button) completely, because as far as I've seen, everything of importance can be done from the VC (which in my opinion is very nice; it would do alright in a Pepsi challenge with the AS Airbus). Unfortunately, that idea is prevented by a little gremlin in the VC lighting.

I don't know whether this is the same for all configs (in all sims), but it seems that there's basically one main control for VC lighting; that being the leftmost of the two large knobs toward the lower right corner of the overhead (a bit above the first officer's wiper control) - labelled 'Panel' [NB: Not to be confused with the Interior Lights segment of the eyebrow panel]. Switchgear labelling is [nicely] illuminated, and instruments are readable for night flying; there is however a bit of a bug at dusk (and presumably, dawn). With these 'Panel' lights on, the FMC (or INS) isn't illuminated (and I notice, the engine instruments, clock, autopilot windows (not labels) too). I think, there's some SNAFU with their VC representations not respecting 'pilot controls aircraft lights', because as soon as the clock ticks over into sim-defined night, they light-up just fine. The workaround (again, a bit clumsy and somewhat of a let-down) is to use the panel selector to open the 2D FMC, which respects pilot command for illumination regardless of time (the INS is probably operable without illuminatiobn); unfortunately, this makes the previously discussed selector a necessity at dusk (& dawn). I hoped dancing down shift+1,2,3 etc. might bring-up the FMC (or even a previously closed panel selector gauge); which would at least be a little less clumsy a workaround, but no joy. Perhaps that could be hacked-into a .cfg somewhere? (Switch keyboard shortcut for 2D main panel to open the FMC/INS?)

Dusk vs. Night:




Lastly, well almost (the real last one is outside the sim), I found the TriStar (externally), while beautifully detailed, to look somehow a bit 'flat' (also queried by Alexein in this thread). On looking, I was quite surprised to find that the textures have no alpha(!?!). I think this lack of reflections [literally!] takes the shine off an otherwise nice exterior model. Alas I'm no artist, so my fiddling is far from what could be acheived, but there's noticeably more life to the curves with a bit of alpha added. [Actually, the effect is most visble when the camera/aircraft is moving, and the lighting shifts - even adding reflection to the windows makes it more lifelike.] It'd be amazing if Just Flight could bring their expert livery painters to bear on the task, and I'm sure the product would be that much better (and more saleable) if they did; but I appreciate this is probably a bit of a big ask, particularly as textures in the add-on liveries are also sans-alpha (sidenote: FLAT DETLA?!? :p). If not, maybe the Photoshop files for the liveries might somehow be made available (under NDA or something?) which would make the business of polishing the paintwork that much more do-able for one or more painters in the community? [Making new selection masks for the different surface finsihes (painted, polished, flat, etc.) is painful.]

[Crude!] Alpha-channel Additions:





And finally(!) - for a fairly comprehensive simulation, it does seem rather to be putting an elephant in the room to leave take off/approach speeds, and more so fuel planning, a bit of a mystery. For fuelling, I'm using an Excel sheet I found on AVSIM for 'the other' 1011 at the moment; it's probably better than guessing, but not by much. If Just Flight -or a community flight dynamics nut- can help me with the maths, I'll cheerfully code a fuel planner tool free & gratis. Take off & approach speeds too, if we can.

My apologies for waffling-on; I just wanted to make my observations clear, in the hope that maybe the issues can be worked-on to improve the product to everyone's benefit (again, I'm more than happy to help where I can!). Thanks for making such a [for the most part] lovely aircraft; and regards,

Rob.

[Observations made in P3D v3.4.9]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote FactionOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2016 at 6:32pm
Update:

I've sorted-out what I think is a better workaround for the persistent & misbehaving panel selector gauge, and the issue of reading the FMC at dusk/dawn.

I've hacked-at the panel.cfg to reprioritise the views, resulting in different panels being available via the standard Shift + Number (not Numpad!) keyboard shortcuts, so they now toggle panels which are probably more useful for VC pilots...

Shift + 1:  FMC/INS
Shift + 2:  Checklists (useful to have nearby in the TriStar!)
Shift + 3:  Panel Selector (to access Pushback, V-speeds, Stairs, etc.)
Shift + 4:  Flight Engineer - Hydraulics
Shift + 5:  Flight Engineer - Bleed Control
Shift + 6:  Flight Engineer - Electrical
Shift + 7:  Flight Engineer - Fuel
Shift + 8:  Flight Engineer - Other
Shift + 9:  GPS (for those who like a quick peek at a map)
I'll happily upload a zip somewhere for anyone who'd like them, if a Just Flight representative replies that it's OK.

There are a few things to note (though irrelevant if nobody else wants them/JF say no).

1) [So far] I've only modified the files for the -500 variants (INS & FMC); if people find my bodge useful and there's demand for the other variants, I'll add them.

2) The files will be provided with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY!

3) My tweaks will ALMOST CERTAINLY BREAK THE SIM ICONS ON THE 2D PANELS, or at the very least, cause them to open the wrong windows and maybe all kinds of other funky stuff. Keeping those working would require modifying the gauges, which is beyond the scope of this bodge; not least because they couldn't be redistributed.

On the subject of modifying gauges, as far as I can see that'd be required to make any change to default panel selector icon behaviour (removing it/making it transparent), but at least with this tweak it can be closed from the right-click menu when starting a flight, and toggled easily with the keyboard shortcut (Shift + 3) for access to its tools without having to fiddle with the misbehaving X/arrow stuff.

I think it restores a bit of 'immersion' by reducing the fiddling one has to do, but popping-up a dirty great 2D FMC (glaring green backlighting through its daytime texture because the panel lights are on) still rather bursts the bubble. PLEASE!, Just Flight, can you fix the VC lighting?

EDIT: A bit of reading suggests the issue might be that some of the gauges' 'Emissive' property are not set to 'Additive' mode (user controlled) - which is required for correct operation during dawn & dusk.


Anyway, JF, over to you!

Much love,

Rob.

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Martyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 7:50am
Hi Rob,

We are currently looking into the issues that you've reported, as well as those in some other forum posts, and will get back to you asap. 

As it's an older product we can't guarantee that we'll be able to add functionality but we'll certainly address any issues.

Thanks
Martyn

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote FactionOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 3:12am
Hi Martyn,

Thanks very much for your reply.

I completed my first proper flight in the TriStar last night, and I love it. The VC lighting drove me nuts (but I had to smile when [most of] everything lit up just as I set the parking brake at LEVC!); and the effect of DLC scared me to death (was it really that severe?); but that not withstanding, I love it. I think it captures the TriStar 'vibe' very well; conjouring great nostalgia for somehow more characterful idiosyncrasies, and seemingly unlimited fuel. (..and ozone layer!)

Of course adding new functionality after release is always a big ask (even for a newer product); but I don't think there's really any significant 'new' stuff needed apart from maybe a load/performance tool, but not having one isn't a show-stopper, it just makes things a bit more approximate & fiddly. While grateful for anything like that which JF might do, I don't expect anything, or feel I(/we) are owed anything; and as above, I would happily get involved and contribute whatever I can.

I'm pleased (and grateful!) to read that the more problematic things are being looked at. After last night's flight, I'd say the one and only thing which is a real problem, is the VC lighting. It seemed like I could get part illumination (as shown in 1st post) at dusk when I first tested, but during daytime and most of dusk on last night's flight, the only thing which happened when I selected the panel lights was the FMC glowing green. It was getting pretty dark on the ground at my destination before anything else lit up (and the FMC went dark!).

If your testing concurs that repairs to lighting are needed, I would say that in an ideal world:

  • Inset instrument lighting (labels & windows) - including on the Engineer's panel, and the small 'flood' lights over the primary instruments, would respond to the light switch at all times of day (even day & night).
  • The FMC texture & lighting would be tweaked a bit - the weathering on the texture looks a bit ropey, and the green back-lighting would probably be better limited to just the text/icons on the buttons (perhaps with just a bit of overspill glow on the rest of the button surface).
  • The main flood lighting to the flight deck (behind captain/engineer) would ideally be separately switchable, but I appreciate that would probably require significantly more work, so vastly dimming it (it's way too bright panning around the VC on approach) - or frankly just removing it - would probably still make for better 'immersion' while being fairly uncomplicated to implement?

Missing Instrumentation Lighting (Gauges & Windows) [SIMILAR ON ENGINEER'S PANEL]:


Current FMC:


Suggested FMC:


Bright [Distracting] Flood Light (and missing FE gauge/window illumination):




As for the misbehaving panel selector gauge; it'd be nice if that were fixed, and I feel confident it wouldn't be much code, but [selfishly, I admit! (Though I'm prepared to share)] I'm not too worried about that one with my modified-for-toggles panel.cfgs

Anyway, looking forward to more flying in the wonderful TriStar, and any fixes you might effect.

Thanks again, and regards,

Rob.

P.S. Waffle over, gratuitous photos from my enjoyable flight: Big smile







P.P.S. One other thing you might be able to help with, which would be absolutely fantastic, is a tweaked paintkit (I'd like to have a go at some fictional-fleet/retro/update schemes, and maybe rebalance the hardcoded shading with some alpha). A 'whole fuselage' template (preferably with an outline/guides) to chop would be really helpful - there's a partial outline in some of the files, but aligning inside it seems to have windows out of whack. Ensuring shading, weathering, and details are definitely on separate layers would be helpful too (I think a couple are mixed-up); perhaps with labels on anything which is a 'night' texture (I'm wondering if the engine cowlings are night textured?, or if that's 'real' light from the fuselage illuminating them?)

P.P.P.S.(!!Confused) Do you know what the 'lump' is, on the lower fuselage [side(s)] under the flight deck windows, just behind the radome?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 3:53pm
Hi Rob,

I've just sent you an email with a fix for the panel selector issue. We'll wait for the other issues to be addressed before we update the product installer.

I'm going to need more time to investigate the lack of alphas and limited night lighting. Unfortunately I'm going to be away for the next week but I'll get back to looking into those issues when I return. 

In terms of lumps under the flight deck windows, are you referring to the naca air ducts?

Thanks
Martyn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FactionOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 6:00pm
Hi Martyn,

Email received; many thanks. I'll give that a try over the weekend.

As regards the other stuff; I think the lack of alpha in the textures is probably a fairly subjective thing, and use of that as a mechanism to add 'shape' to the model varies pretty well between developers. CS for example, don't use alpha channel (according to their manual), AS on the other hand make extensive use of pretty strong alpha, I think in a combination technique which puts the textures on top of a black [/dark] base model (as opposed to a highly reflective, chrome/mercury-like finish), enabling a much broader range of alpha values before things look blown out.

Because the TriStar model is highly reflective, and there's shadow shading baked into the RGB channels, I imagine it might be quite fiddly & time consuming to do much with alpha in this case; and as in my first post, I appeciate that we're talking about a lot of [detailed] liveries, and a subjective aesthetic issue. While you're away I might have a go at a subtle (230-240 or something) 'all-over' alpha, stronger on glass only, to see what the result looks like. Perhaps the tweaked paintkit might be a compromise which helps those of us who want to fiddle with alpha do so without creating lots of (perhaps fruitless) extra work for your artists?

Having spent more 'quality time' with the aircraft, I'd say the lighting is actually a much more pressing concern than alpha in the textures.

I did wonder if the lump I noticed was a seam on the NACA ducts, it may well be - I'll have a closer look in a lighter livery.

Thanks again & regards,

Rob.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote FactionOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 3:19pm
A bit of an update on things various...

First of all the modified .gau Martyn sent now has the panel selector opening and closing correctly; which is fab. I've modified my tweaked panel.cfg to toggle the arrow now, so I can have the gauge available during flight, and just toggle it out & back for the odd screenshot :)

Next, the lights - further to the above observations, I've found them to feel a bit 'FS95' - with things latching with the landing light; the logo light (for example) seems to come on with the landing light (of course this might be 'real' behaviour, but I can't see the point of a separate logo switch in that case?) - and their generally being a bit basic & flakey like lights were back then. Minor things like that aside, I feel the aircraft would be more than good enough to love with its panel/gauge lighting fixed, and maybe the dome light made switchable/dimmed/removed (I'd cheerfully buy FS Labs' Spotlights just for this TriStar to fill-in the gaps). I've enjoyed flying high density short/mid haul routes which sometimes see wide-bodies, but I'd like to fly the TriStar on some of the proper long haul routes its legend was built on; but these will very often see at least one dusk/dawn, that stage at which the VC lighting is most 'screwy' really puts a pin in the otherwise very good bubble of immersion that flying this TriStar puts one in.

Also, I've been fiddling with the paintkit a bit (I really fancy having a go at some quirky/fictional paints), and I've had real trouble. As you can see in the screenshot, I've got a whole-fuselage template pretty well lined-up (though I'm not completely convinced as there are slight differences in the outlines in each of the texture segments, and I can only use one for my datum and have a properly aligned merge) but I've found that to be mostly academic, as the bigger problem I've found is that on all but one of the fuselage PSDs, the shading (the technique I suppose chosen to supplement diffuse light (rather than alpha/combo) to make round stuff look round) is flattened into the details layer. This means that tweaks to either are basically impossible without re-drawing at least the details. It'd be fab if the original PSDs could be hunted around for, hopefully so the paintkit could have uniformly useful layering. I'd be willing to contribute a whole-fuselage template from re-layered sections if asking for one to be done for us is a bit much(!) -I figure it's easy enough to deal with the overlaps for the texture files by saving each texture area to selections in the file (in channels), making it simple to crop each for alignment in the 2048x2048 texture segments.



Finally, I'd really like to do something about fuel planning - I'm more than happy for the emphasis to be on *my* doing something; but I'd really apprecaite any clues/pointers anyone reading could give on how I might go about figuring [fairly] accurate fuel burn at various stages of flight/different gross weights, at least in ISA conditions. It feels like it should be possible - there must be maths somewhere for the Flight Engineer's CG stuff etc.? I think that like corrected lights, fuel and ideally speeds & trim planning would give the aircraft a big lift (boom boom!). Incidentally, it's a bit sore having a "Professional" TriStar which will blare a config alarm for 0 trim on take-off roll, while having to guess what it should be set at (or in practice on short/mid haul routes, setting it at about 2.5 degrees to avoid the alarm and hoping you've got the weight close enough for it to fly right).

Thanks again, much love,

Rob.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ThomasAH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 4:36pm
Nice, I really hope this will result in an even better 1011 :)
I often do flights at dusk, even for shorter flights, because when flying in real time, this is the time I have available for flying after work/dinner.

Regarding the fuel burn: PFPX has an included profile for the 1011. I don't know how accurate the resulting numbers are, but I'd say try it and report here if it fits with the flights you do.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FactionOne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2016 at 3:24pm
Thanks for the PFPX tip Thomas; I'd looked at it once or twice in passing having heard that it's very good, but not really considered it before because I use Pro-ATC/X to generate flight plans at the moment.

It's a bit on the steep side, but it does look very comprehensive. I might raid the piggy-bank and see how its numbers stack up.

Thanks again,

Rob.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThomasAH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Nov 2016 at 4:43pm
Maybe there will be a black friday sale for it soon.
You can load routes generated by other flight planners (or in your case ATC software), too, if they are in standard FSX format. Or just copy&paste the route string.

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