parking LOWI

• The information contained within the aircraft.cfg file which includes the aircraft's wingspan width, parking type (gate, ramp, cargo, etc), and parking "code" (a code that contains the airline information such as British Airways, EasyJet, etc). Some aircraft have different values in their respective aircraft.cfg files meaning that a British Airways A320 might be set to park at the gate, but an EasyJet A319 might be set to park at the ramp … these two aircraft would therefore probably park in different spots at the airport.
   
• The details in the airport scenery file (AFCAD file). Each parking spot in the file is set to a type (gate, ramp, cargo, etc), has a particular size (wingspan width), and is usually set with parking codes. This is why the question above needs to be considered ... is this with the default LOWI or a LOWI from a download or scenery package … because the parking spots in the default LOWI might be configured differently from the parking spots in a download version or scenery package version of LOWI.
    
• When the aircraft lands and a parking spot is needed, the availability of free parking spaces at the airport which are the appropriate size for the aircraft. In other words the aircraft wingspan must fit in the spot and the spot must not already have an aircraft parked in it. An airport, for example, might have many free spots, but those spots might only be set in the airport file for smaller sized wingspan aircraft. A 747 (large wingspan size) can't park in those smaller sized spots and therefore it won't park there even if the spot is free.

Hey Guys I have from Aerosoft Approaching Innsbruck maybe this is the problem.Colin

Can anyone get in on this discussion? ("Hi" to Ray and Freddie).

Below is a link to some of the information about Flight Simulator X parking assignments that Freddie has probably read already. For anyone else who wants to delve into the details of FSX parking assignments, I think that it is a worthwhile resource.

Parking assignment - FSDeveloper Wiki

Soaranden! It is good to see a new post from you.

Hmmm, kevinh does have a good point there. I went down the whole "check for duplicates etc" path out of habit and experience. But a quicker "test" for a possible duplicated AFCAD would indeed be to disable the "Traffic 360 Airport Facilities". If that does work for you, then it will likely confirm you do have a duplicated LOWI AFCAD file as I was suggesting, and, of course, it will also resolve your issue. So that's a great suggestion from kevinh. Keep in mind though that doing this will also mean you lose all of the other updated airports that come supplied with Traffic 360. Therefore, if you want all of the updated airports that Traffic 360 provides, then turn the "Traffic 360 Airport Facilities" off purely as a test to see if your issue is resolved, thus confirming you probably do have a duplicated AFCAD, and then turn it back on and try to find the actual individual duplicated LOWI AFCAD ... or ... if you don't care much about having all the updated airports from Traffic 360, then just turn it off and leave it off.

Yeah!?

I didn't know that the AF2 files were "Helipad" files. I've just learnt something.

I've never bothered to open any of the AF2 files in an AFCAD editor. But now that you've mentioned this, I opened the "AF2_JFLI.bgl" file in an AFCAD editor ... and it does indeed confirm the file to be "Innsbruck Helipad" ... but, interestingly, it doesn't contain any helipads; only aircraft parking spots and information about the airport's ILS.

Considering these are AIRCRAFT parking spots, and not helipads, it is all a bit strange because helicopters wouldn't even be parking on these spots.

I guess only Just Flight knows the thinking behind what they've done here, and why.

Ray, with that in mind, you may wish to carefully consider which of these files you "turn off" by renaming them '.old'. You might possibly need to leave some of them "turned on"? If some of them don't have helipads, but instead contain AIRCRAFT parking spots, then they may form an important part of the aircraft parking at the respective airport(s). So you may be missing out on some aircraft parking at those airports.

Ahh. I have been using HeliTraffic 2009 for so long, I forgot that helicopters parked at RAMPs.

For the record, when you have HeliTraffic 2009 installed, helicopters will ONLY fly to, use, and land at HELICOPTER STARTS in the AFCAD (as opposed to RUNWAY STARTS). This means that, with HeliTraffic 2009 installed, helicopters will NOT park at RAMP parking spots.

OK ...

Just Flight would have done these "pseudo" helicopter airports because, unless you are using HeliTraffic 2009 and also decided to delete all the helicopters from the AI flight plans, helicopters in the simulator TAXI to the runway, lineup, and then accelerate down the runway to takeoff like a conventional aircraft. Quite unrealistic. So to set some (helicopter) parking spots very close to a short "fake" runway, in a "pseudo" secondary airport AFCAD, kind of makes sense in an effort to mitigate that unrealism.

For this to work, Just Flight's default AI flight plans would need to send AI helicopters to the "pseudo" airport, and planes to the main airport.

And, yes, the helicopters would be using that "pseudo" ILS for their landings. I haven't checked, but I'd be willing to bet the ILS in these "pseudo" airports is pretty short and steep (in an effort to mimick a vertical helicopter landing).

So, if this is what they are doing (or trying to do), then I think it kind of makes sense.

However, I do see a problem. A problem could potentially occur when the airport is first loaded, and, similarly, AI planes are also loaded at that time. Unless specific efforts are made with parking codes, and parking spot sizes, AI planes could be loaded on these "helicopter" RAMP spots and thus take up spots that helicopters would otherwise use.

And, also, an unsuspecting user, using the Traffic Control Centre to do their own flight plan edits etc, would most likely innocently set helicopter flight plans up to use the main airport (because these "pseudo" heli airports are not mentioned in the manuals or tutorials).

In short, it's a pretty cool idea. But, it is not without some potential problems.

The BEST way to fix ALL of the issues with helicopters in the simulator, is to simply use HeliTraffic 2009 (I cannot recommend this program enough). And, with HeliTraffic 2009 installed and running, you should delete all of the helicopters from the default flight plans provided with the Traffic X/360 product. With HeliTraffic 2009 the helicopters take off and land vertically, like REAL helicopters, and they land on HELIPADS (using the HELICOPTER STARTS in the AFCAD file). They don't park at RAMPS. They don't taxi. It all works REALISTICALLY. All much better than trying to use some "pseudo" airport trickery.

Now, having said all of this, I do give kudos to Just Flight for this. If I am right in what I've written above, then I can see what they are trying to achieve, and it is quite clever to say the least, albeit with some (probably minor) potential issues. Although, to be honest, I am not so sure this is their original idea - I think it has been done before.


(On a side note, isn't it good to be having a conversation again in these forums? ... it's been a while.)

Yes, there are three types of START: Runway, Water, and Helicopter. We have already mentioned Runway and Helicopter in this thread. The Water Start is for seaplanes (such as the default Beaver, for example). It is possible, with your AFCAD editor, to create working seaplane bases (airports) in the simulator. Water aircraft (such as the Beaver) can have flight plans set for them to and from these seaplane bases. They will taxi to and from docks and pontoons, take off, fly, land at the next seaplane base, and finally taxi back to a dock or pontoon. All of this just the same as normal AI at normal land-based airports. I have SEVERAL of these operational seaplane bases in some of my scenery packages, and I successfully managed to make one such working seaplane AFCAD of my own. However, if you are thinking of doing this, be sure to do a bit of research about how to do it as there are some "tricks" you need to know to make it work.

In keeping on topic ... if you have HeliTraffic 2009, you can download some AI helicopters on floats and set these up to land and takeoff at these seaplane bases.

The JFLI glideslope is 3 degrees huh?! Interesting.

Yes, do your research on the different types of AFCAD Starts. I've given you some information above on the Water one. Not much, but enough to whet the appetite. Trust me, if you know how to use the different Starts, and/or you're interested in setting up some working seaplane bases, then having knowledge of the different Starts types will open a whole new avenue of AFCAD editing for you.

And, trust me again, you really DO need to get HeliTraffic 2009. You don't even need to configure it or set flight plans. Just purchase, install, run it, and choose an AI traffic percentage for your helicopters. Job done! It will use the helicopters it finds in your hangar and simply randomly fly them to and from airports for you. The helicopters will takeoff from, and land at, the HELIPADS at the airport (remember that Helicopter START we were talking about?). You don't need to set flight plans or anything. It's all automatic and magic. Seeing the helicopters actually take off and land vertically, like real helicopters, without you needing to do anything at all (AT ALL!), is worth the purchase price alone. So, for you, it would be perfect ... you say you can do without helis in your sim ... with this program you just install it and run it ... voila! ... working helis, and you didn't have to do anything to get them. Sure, if you do want a bit of control, then, yes, it does have additional options such as allowing you to do some basic flight plans, or picking and choosing which helicopters it uses; but, essentially, it is a program you just buy, install, and run ... nothing more for you to do. You don't even need to modify your existing AFCADs! It is exceptional. Do yourself a favor and get it. (Note, if you use P3D, then check first if it runs OK in that.)

Ah, so you have done and know about seaplane bases. Yes, they are very cool.

It was Soaranden who convinced me to purchase HeliTraffic 2009. Initially, like you, I removed all of the AI helicopters because I didn't want the hassles of them taxiing, sitting at hold short points, entering runways, and all that stuff. They frustrated me. So I removed them from all the flight plans. I had previously looked at HeliTraffic 2009, but considering all the work I had done, and the immense time I had spent, on aircraft flight plans, I didn't want to have to do it all over again for helicopters. Little did I know how wrong I was. Soaranden, in the Traffic X forum, explained the program and suggested I take another look. Armed with his information I did "better" research on it, and I took the plunge.

To this day HeliTraffic 2009 remains one of the BEST purchases I ever made for Flight Simulator. No question. Install, choose a traffic percentage, tell it which helicopters you do and don't want it to use, DONE! I instantly had helicopters flying to and from airport helipads, with vertical takeoff and landing realism, and all without me having to add a single flight plan, edit any AFCADs, or do any work whatsoever. And, it runs automatically when you start the sim, so you don't even need to lift a finger. Just pure magic. I was absolutely stoked. (Minor note: Remember that I had already previously removed all the existing Traffic X helicopter flight plans - which you would have to do if you have not already done so.)

It ran like this in my simulator for ages. I didn't need to touch a thing. But, one day, I decided to add my first custom landing spot and a handful of basic helicopter flight plans. The software lets you do this with ease, and you don't even need to compile anything. Better still, the files created by the program are all TEXT-based so they are easy to manually edit if you want to make slight changes or adjustments, and, of course, they are also easy to save and backup. In addition to all the usual helicopter traffic automatically looked after and handled by the program, I now also had medical helicopters flying to hospitals, helicopters flying to and landing at fire spotting towers and cabins in the mountains, tourist helicopters flying "joy-flights" up and down coastlines, etc etc. And these only took a few mouse clicks to achieve.

An added bonus is you can set any AI object to be a helicopter (by a quick aircraft.cfg file edit) and then use HeliTraffic 2009 to set this object to fly to and from two customised takeoff and landing points in the sim ... and when I say landing points I don't only mean airports, but also parks, hilltops, mountains, etc ... so imagine blimps, hot air balloons, gliders, hang-gliders, and the like. It's fantastic!

Sure, feel free to PM me and ask any questions.

Hmmm, I see we have well and truly hijacked this thread and gone off topic ... Oops.