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How do you fly it IFR?

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flyforever View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 May 2015 at 11:31pm
Without 2D panels, I find it almost impossible to navigate safely in IFR conditions. I am interested to hear from others how they do it. I am very upset about the fact that 2D panels are no longer an option with many JF aircrafts.
tony
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Bart Reurts View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bart Reurts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2015 at 5:09am
With the autopilot on , i have time to adjust my position in the cocpit to a good view on the radio for a freq adjustment .
The position tool ( shift + 1 ) is a big help .
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snave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2015 at 7:49am
If its that important, create pseudo 2d panels with specific camera views.

Personally, I have no trouble with flying IFR in bad weather, at night utilising the existing view structure and the view configuration utility.

You can forget 2d panels, Noah wanted them back for the Ark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowpatz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2015 at 9:13am
Why forget it? 2D panels seem to be a regular request here and given the type of aircraft it is it would probably have better appeal with 2D panels. At the very least have pre-configured VC views.
The VC is not the easiest to navigate around without track IR.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2015 at 10:08am
It is with customised camera views. You should really investigate how to create your own as 2d panels are gone, history, dodo'd, obsolete  - and unnecessary.

But whats wrong with the default camera views? VC left sees all gauges on the pilots side, VC right for the co-pilot. All other system views are included and you can do mouse panning and zooming in all of them.

The only issue with IFR (and strange you didn't mention it) is that there currently isn't separate Nav1 and Nav2 DME indicators on the Pilot and Co-pilot side, respectively. Given no GPS, it's a pre-requisite, although the RMI can substitute to a certain extent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowpatz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2015 at 2:52am
Originally posted by snave snave wrote:

It is with customised camera views. You should really investigate how to create your own as 2d panels are gone, history, dodo'd, obsolete  - and unnecessary.

But whats wrong with the default camera views? VC left sees all gauges on the pilots side, VC right for the co-pilot. All other system views are included and you can do mouse panning and zooming in all of them.

The only issue with IFR (and strange you didn't mention it) is that there currently isn't separate Nav1 and Nav2 DME indicators on the Pilot and Co-pilot side, respectively. Given no GPS, it's a pre-requisite, although the RMI can substitute to a certain extent


Bollocks. The latest iFly 747 has 2D panels. Ever tried undocking a VC view? A real performance hit.
So much easier when trying to put the likes of an FMC onto another screen and much easier to navigate if you don't have something like EZDOK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowpatz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2015 at 11:49pm
Finally succumbed and got EZDOK. It does make things much better, however, it is still not possible to see the instrumentation and use the autopilot at the same time due to its location.
At least a few pop up panels for those of us that would like to fly the aircraft properly without trying to control the AP via thru the armrest or spend time using the eyepoint tool to get to it and back again to see the results of the change.
Does anyone know what the FSUIPC offsets are for the AP pitch up and down functions. Then at least I can link that to buttons on the joystick in a similar manner to the elevator trim.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lipq2009 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2015 at 7:26pm
I think the important is to have the best instrument view as possible and some 2D popup window available. Expeccially for ADF and VOR navigation.
Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gyps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2015 at 5:03pm
Pop panels for stuff would be nice
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snave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2015 at 9:08am
Originally posted by lipq2009 lipq2009 wrote:

I think the important is to have the best instrument view as possible and some 2D popup window available. Expeccially for ADF and VOR navigation.
Cheers

Dual needle RMI for ADF/NAV & switchable Nav1/2 with associated DME are right there in front of you on the main VC screen.

Can you be more specific about why you think this is inadequate? What pop up are you looking for when everything is right there in front of you?
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snave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2015 at 9:09am
Originally posted by gyps gyps wrote:

Pop panels for stuff would be nice

What `stuff`? The only thing that might be needed is for the a/p, and that is easily achievable with a pre-set key that accesses the existing 3d view...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyforever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2015 at 3:21pm
the bottom line, and as a real pilot, I find that the lack of 2d panels can quickly lead to an out of control flight situation when hand flying a plane.
In flight sim, you're constantly adjusting pitch due to the relatively unstable flight dynamics of the aircrafts.

The 2d panel, as an option, provides a good compromise between keeping an eye on the AH and switching frequencies or whatever else without losing control of the aircraft.


I have been flying sims for many years, and some aircrafts with primitive autopilots do benefit from 2d pop up. Imagine when you're first learning how to use the controls and you're flying. It's almost impossible not to crash the plane if you only rely on the VC.

Besides, as an option this is not much to ask, and it would keep a happier customer base.
With the DC8, for example, there's provision for 2d windows. The problem is that access to the various guages is impossible, ie, autopilot.

tony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lipq2009 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2015 at 7:30pm
I am fully aligned as Tony answered.
It is very hard fly this aircraft in VC mode only.
Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldJ3pilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2015 at 8:12pm
Quote the bottom line, and as a real pilot, I find that the lack of 2d panels can quickly lead to an out of control flight situation when hand flying a plane.
In flight sim, you're constantly adjusting pitch due to the relatively unstable flight dynamics of the aircrafts.

Have you used the V/C for any extended period? I am also a real pilot and truly dislike 2D panels. They just don't seem realistic to me and I haven't even looked at one (except by accidental key strikes) in years.
 The V/C does sometimes complicate clear views of instruments but that is easily solved by EZDOK, OPUS Camera, or TrackIR. After trying them all I finally settled on OPUS but EZDOK is also very good (and easier to set up). TrackIR is too bulky for me.
All the above is just my opinion and certainly not intended as "expert lecture"
def. "Expert": A little drip a long way from home .Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flyer10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2015 at 9:29am
A way around it would be to use the saitek multi panel.
Most aircraft work fine with it if the use the SDK, this plane is perfect, as is carenado, alabeo, virtavia, virtualcol among others.
Its only the over complicated airliners that don't. Even then they could still be used if they assigned keyboard shortcuts to their controls. Ie the old Wilco planes worked after you assigned the push/pull to short/long press on the panel.

I would not fly this plane without it.
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