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F27 impressions

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Cowpatz View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 May 2015
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowpatz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: F27 impressions
    Posted: 14 May 2015 at 9:46am
First of all thanks very much for producing a much needed F27.
It has been many years since I flew the F27 for real.
Here are my first impressions:
  • No 2D panels or pop ups for an aircraft like this are a real pain and make it difficult to fly without the likes of track IR (which I have but dislike).
  • The ADI is somewhat weird and and I find it practically unreadable. What is with the curved horizon line? I find I have to zoom in quite close to read the details on both the ADI and HSI and this obscures most of the outside view.
  • Are you sure a 100 series had a flight director option? I don't think a FD existed back in this time. I flew both the 100 and 500 series and neither had a FD.
  • Could you tell me what model or operator of the F27 had a start panel like this? All models I flew just had a START/SAFE option and engine selector plus a push button starter. Also ignition did not have to be manually turned on. The call was just "select start on starboard, clear starboard, start starboard". The start button was then pressed and at 1500 RPM the HPC was placed from Closed to open. The fuel trimmers were used to keep the TGT within limits and if necessary the HPC's were "milked" as well.
  • Nose wheel steering was never turned off
  • TO RPM was 15000 RPM for the 500 and 14500 for the 100 series.
  • The manual says ""It is good discipline to push the levers into the LOCK OUT position once the engines are started and to leave them there until it is time to shut down." Actually it's completely the opposite. The locks are there to stop the prop going past the flight fine position into ground fine pitch. If this were to happen a loss of the aircraft would result. During the climb the HPC's should go to OPEN. They can go back to LOCKOUT when on finals.
  • I have never seen the Autopilot operated in this way. BEAM was only ever used for VOR or LOC tracking not heading. Airspeed hold is never used in the cruise only ALT HOLD. It is only used for climb or descent and even then it wasn't actually that good at maintaining speed. We always used the pitch function.
  • The F27 had a characteristic zoom climb when the first selection of flap was selected which required a positive forward push on the yoke.
  • The 100 series had retractable landing lights.
  • Is there a gustlock? A real back breaker  located behind the captains seat.
  • Ground fine is not modeled at all and when selected the RPM increases.
  • Quite a bit of engine lag. The dart was relatively responsive. This was because the prop would coarsen or fine out to assisted with changing engine thrust requirements. Open the throttle quickly and the prop fines out to help engine acceleration. The opposite is the case for closing the throttle. It took a bit of getting used to because if you open the throttle quickly (to regain lost airspeed for example) the aircraft would slow initially as the prop disc fined out then coarsen again to maintain the new RPM setting. Opposite for slowing down.
  • Are the effects of the fuel trimmers modelled?

I sincerely hope that either 2D panels are coming or at least pop ups. The latter is really needed for ease of use and so that they can be placed on other screens. If you have yet to see the F27 panel by Fraser McKay then you this may help in understanding the value of pop ups. This would also give a very good indication as to what pop ups would be needed. An ADI/HSI pop up would make viewing these instruments easier too (as in the iFly 737/747)

If this were done you will truly have a top class model and one that everyone will get the maximum enjoyment from.

EDIT: I have been made aware of a change to operating procedure since I flew the aircraft. In 1992 the FAA issued a STC allowing the aircraft to be operated in LOCKOUT all the time. This was for the 500 but I presume also for the 100 series

Cheers

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Haseen View Drop Down
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Joined: 03 May 2015
Location: Bangladesh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Haseen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2015 at 9:11pm
Dear Cowpatz:

I fully agree with you and thank you for such a nice post. I saw the Fokker F27s(-200 & -600) in detail back in early 80's when Biman used to operate them. I purchased  Just Flight Fokker F27 thinking it would be as good as Fraser McKay's. But no. Will Just Flight notice what you pointed out and take action?

I am also looking for prop RPM sychronizer guarded switch and a functioning fuel trimming system.

I wish Fraser McKay could make a payware Fokker F27 and Fairchild F-27 in 3D for FSX. 

By the way, I can use Fraser McKay's (and Mike Stone, FSX version) Fokker F27 and Fairchild F-27 with 2D panel in fs2004. But in FSX I can't start the engines. Could you please help me to work them in fsx?

Regards,

Haseen Ahmad
Avionics Engineer
Biman Bangladesh Airlines
Bangladesh. 
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sharpas58 View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 May 2015
Location: new zealand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sharpas58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2015 at 9:03am
thank you cowpatz for also believing 2d panels are essential, I am not happy
this new trend of developers producing their products without them , true it`s not aimed at the topend of the market but it is`nt a cheep product either ,
I`m holding off till this omission is remedied , plus I would prefer a little soiling on the textures too , these are work-horses after all
    NoelE
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Cowpatz View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 May 2015
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cowpatz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2015 at 10:49pm
I would just like to make it clear that I made my comments with a "positive tone" and not one of bagging the product. This is one of the problems with text...no tone in the delivery. It is really great to see a F27 for P3D. Like most products things only come to light after release.
I sincerely hope that the developer continues his fine work and takes on board some of the user suggestions (or at least a declaration of intention one way or the other) so that this model can be truly first class without reservation.

Haseen: I went straight from FS9 to P3D so I cannot help with getting the Mike Stone/Fraser McKay machine to work in FSX. I would suggest going onto the Classic British Flight Sim forum as you may well find something there.
http://www.cbfsim.co.uk

Calclassics have Mike Stones F27 for FSX (not sure of the panel though)
http://www.calclassic.com

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Mike70 View Drop Down
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Joined: 01 Nov 2013
Location: NY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike70 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2015 at 7:15pm
Regarding the ADI:

I think the "curved horizon line" is really an attempt to make the inner portion look like a sphere rather than a disk - maybe that is what you mean. The poor lighting effects also do not help discerning indications on the ADI. Spherical-style ADIs are not particularly more mechanically elaborate than the disk style but are more easily interpreted in real life - all US services adopted them when Lear made their first MIL-SPEC versions (we called them LEAR Liars") in the 1950s. However, transferring their advantage in two dimensions leaves a lot to be desired if it is not done right.

UNFORTUNATELY and ONCE AGAIN - JF has got the ADI presentation WRONG!! Like their DC-8s, the bank index arrow moves in the wrong direction against the upper bank index scale - i.e. when you bank to the right, the arrow index should move to the left on the index scale - both these planes do the opposite,

I posted this comment regarding the DC-8 some time ago, and still no response.
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flyforever View Drop Down
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Joined: 02 Aug 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyforever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2015 at 8:55pm
I wrote to support regarding 2d panel omissions, and they, politely, told me to move on with the times.
To provide the option to install 2d panels is not necessarily a bad option.
tony
FV
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