This forum is in read-only mode for archive purposes, please use our new forum at https://community.justflight.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Just Chat > Just Chat - General Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - LHC run two scheduled for Wednesday.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

LHC run two scheduled for Wednesday.

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: LHC run two scheduled for Wednesday.
    Posted: 22 Mar 2015 at 2:42pm

The most powerful particle accelerator on Earth has been asleep for the past two years. Soon it will reawaken for its second run.

Since shutting down in early 2013, the LHC and its detectors have undergone a multitude of upgrades and repairs. When the particle accelerator restarts, it will collide protons at an unprecedented energy: 13 trillion electron volts. Scaled up into our macroscopic world, the force of these proton-proton collisions is roughly equivalent to an apple hitting the moon hard enough to create a crater 6 miles across.

The upgraded capabilities of the ATLAS, CMS, ALICE and LHCb detectors—plus the LHC’s extra boost of power—will give scientists access to a previously inaccessible realm of physics.

To the Higgs boson …and beyond!

In the first run of the LHC, the ATLAS and CMS experiments ended the 50-year hunt for the Higgs boson, which was predicted the Standard Model of particles and forces. Now scientists want to know if the Higgs they found is hiding any surprises.

“All the properties of the Higgs boson are already predicted by the Standard Model, so it’s our job to go out and measure those properties and see if they agree,” says Jay Hauser, a University of California, Los Angeles physicist working on the CMS experiment. “If anything disagrees, it could be a window to new physics.”

Because the Higgs boson loves mass, scientists suspect that it might interact with a range of hidden, massive particles that we cannot see, such as dark matter. If the Higgs boson is dancing with any undiscovered physics, scientists should see evidence of this in the way the Higgs behaves.

But even if the Higgs agrees with all predictions, something about it still seems a bit strange.

“The Higgs mass doesn’t make any sense,” says Beate Heinemann, a physicist from University of California, Berkeley and Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and the deputy head of the ATLAS experiment. “It would make much more sense if it was much heavier, which is why we think there must be something that protects the Higgs boson and gives it a lower mass."

This Higgs bodyguard could be anything from supersymmetric particles to dark matter to extra dimensions.

“We have quite a few puzzles,” Heinemann says. “We think that there should be new physics at this energy scale, but we don’t know what it is yet.”

Bringing it back to the big bang

Scientists on the ALICE experiment have their sights on something else.

In the beginning, the entire universe—all the stars, planets and galaxies—were part of a hot soup of matter called quark gluon plasma. The LHC can recreate those conditions in miniature by colliding beams of heavy atomic nuclei, which it does for four weeks per year. The ALICE detector specializes in investigating the properties of this primordial material.

“The quark gluon plasma is so hot that ordinary protons and neutrons cannot exist in it,” says Peter Jacobs, a Berkeley physicist working on the ALICE experiment. “Quarks and gluons move around in it and interact in new ways that we haven’t seen before. It’s a new form of matter and we want to know how it behaves and what its properties are—like its structure and how it acts at different temperatures.”

In the first run of the LHC, the ALICE experiment was able to characterize many aspects of this weird semi-liquid plasma, such as its viscosity.

“The quarks and gluons interact more than we originally thought, indicating that the quark-qluon plasma is more like a liquid than a gas; indeed, almost as “perfect” a liquid as nature allows,” Jacobs says.

But there is still more to investigate.

“Run I was a discovery run, and we were able to explore many new things and developed a lot of curiosities,” Jacobs says. “During Run II, we will be able to explore these curiosities more deeply and give them quantitative values instead of just being able to describe them qualitatively.”

The case of the missing antimatter

Scientists suspect that the big bang acted like a universe-sized supercollider that brought equal parts of matter and antimatter into existence. But where did all of the antimatter go?

The LHCb experiment is one of the world’s best early-universe detectives and looks for clues in the case of the disappearing antimatter.

“We should have started with equivalent amount of matter and antimatter in the universe,” says Michael Williams, an MIT physicist working on the LHCb experiment. “But now, all we see is matter, and there is no way the Standard Model can explain this huge discrepancy. There must be some other way matter and antimatter behave differently.”

To uncover the root of this huge discrepancy, the LHCb experiment does precision measurements of subatomic processes. LHCb scientists then compare the Standard Model predictions with these experimental observations to see how well they match up.

Thus far, the Standard Model has been hard to break. But Williams thinks that increasing the precision of these measurements could start to show where the cracks are.

“You never know if you're on the cusp of making a discovery,” Williams says. “In Run II, we will measure lots of processes with a much higher precision, and this might reveal something that the Standard Model is not explaining.”


http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/article/february-2015/whats-new-for-lhc-run-ii
Back to Top
MarkH View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Points: 1570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2015 at 4:05pm
Cheers for that post Martin.  I seriously pity anybody who doesn't figuratively 'wet their pants' when it comes to this science. Thumbs Up 

I'm going to hedge my bets and suggest elements of a Supersymmetry model will come to light, particles belonging to that model will become candidates for Dark Matter.

As for the rest, who knows, I'm no particle physicist.  But I wish I were. Smile

M.
 
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2015 at 4:38pm
Reckon that would be a good bet Mark. Would make sense re the Higgs boson. I mean in regard to it being light.

However...

Isn't it true that the LHC has detected rare particle decay events that cast doubt on SUSY?



Back to Top
MarkH View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Points: 1570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2015 at 4:54pm
Hi Martin.  I read John Butterworth's amazing book 'Most Wanted Particle'.  He is a lead scientist at ATLAS.  He never mentioned rare particle decay events casting doubt, but they may have detected them analysing data after his book was published.  He did say however that that the energy level the Higgs was found at made Supersymmetry less likely but not impossible.  They just don't know yet!

The great thing is, ruling a model out is as exiting as confirming one. Smile

M.
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 8:46am
It was about three years ago I recall.

Here it is...

Quote If superparticles were to exist, the decay would happen far more often. This experiment is one of the "golden" tests for supersymmetry, and it would appear that this hugely popular theory among physicists has failed.


Outdated stuff though, 3 years ago, so may not apply now. I think it was preliminary research too.

John Ellis claims it is consistent with SUSY, so who knows.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20300100

Quote The great thing is, ruling a model out is as exiting as confirming one.


Yep, I agree. In fact in my post before yours, before I edited it, I was about to say the same thing.

Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 8:55am
This is an interesting article...

https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/the-rise-and-fall-of-supersymmetry-c6ef51bea56b

But the biggest failures of SUSY are not theoretical ones; they’re experimental.

At the LHC, supersymmetric particles should have been detected by now, if they exist. There are plenty of theorists and experimentalists who are still optimistic about SUSY, but nearly all models that successfully solve the hierarchy problem have been ruled out.

At this point in the game, based on what we’ve seen (and haven’t seen, like any non-standard model particles) so far, it would be shocking if the LHC actually did turn up statistically meaningful evidence for supersymmetry. As always, continued experimentation will be the ultimate arbiter of nature, but I think it’s fair to say that the only reason SUSY gets as much positive press as it does is for two simple reasons.

1.A lot of people have invested their entire careers in SUSY, and if it’s not a part of nature, then a lot of what they’ve invested in is nothing more than a blind alley. For example, if there is no SUSY in nature, at any energy scale (including the Planck Scale, although this will be a challenge to test), then string theory cannot describe our Universe. Plain and simple.
2.There are no other good solutions to the hierarchy problem that are as satisfying as SUSY. If there’s no SUSY, then we have to admit that we have no idea why the masses of the standard model particles have the value that they do.

Which is to say, SUSY or not, physics is still going to have a lot of explaining to do, and there’s plenty of work to be done if our goal is to understand the Universe. But the biggest problem is that SUSY predicts new particles, and it predicts their existence — at least, of the lowest-mass ones — to occur in a fairly specific range of energies.

And we’ve probed those energies at the LHC, and seen nothing so far.



Back to Top
MarkH View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Points: 1570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 9:38pm
Cheers for the link UM.  Trust me when I say, if SUSY refuses to turn up in the second run, the theory will be adapted yet again and it will be just out of reach of the LHC.  A great excuse to secure funding for the next generation of collider. Wink

The thing I find interesting is that Nature has produced three generations within the Standard Model.  The Universe we know would work just fine with the first generation, up and down quarks, electron and electron neutrino, the force carriers, photon, gluon and Z and W boson and the Higgs.  Why did nature copy the particles at higher and then higher energy levels?  SUSY bets that nature has just done that again at increasing energies.  It would be a nice mechanism to smooth out the quantum fluctuations evident in the Higgs.

Do you want to pretend to be a CERN engineer?

Go here and look at the live data from the LHC and make out your in the control centre.  Change the display in the top left corner for different data.


LHC Dashboard is a pretty cool option. 

Roll on Wednesday. Big smile

Cheers,

M.
  
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2015 at 12:05pm
Quote Cheers for the link UM. Trust me when I say, if SUSY refuses to turn up in the second run, the theory will be adapted yet again and it will be just out of reach of the LHC. A great excuse to secure funding for the next generation of collider.


Ha, don't let the science hating conspiracy theorists hear you say that Mark.

Just heard, the LHC wont be firing up for a bit. There was a short circuit in one of the magnets.

Quote Cern said it was "a well understood issue", but because the magnets are supercooled to temperatures approaching absolute zero (-273C), the repair could be time-consuming.

If it requires the faulty magnet to be warmed up and re-cooled, the delay may stretch from a few days to "several weeks", the organisation announced on Tuesday.

"Any cryogenic machine is a time amplifier, so what would have taken hours in a warm machine could end up taking us weeks," said Cern's director for accelerators, Frederick Bordry.


Back to Top
MarkH View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Points: 1570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2015 at 7:37pm
Hey Martin, that's not me saying that, that was Jon Butterworth, a lead scientist chap at ATLAS Big smile  I'm just passing it on Wink

They've gone and broke it again.  Oh well its been two years, I'm happy to wait a few weeks more.

M.
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2015 at 9:53am
LHC fires up next week. It was a metal particle shorting it out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32133876

The short circuit delaying the restart of the Large Hadron Collider has been fixed, after a blast of high current melted the metal particle responsible.
Back to Top
MarkH View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Points: 1570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2015 at 7:52pm
That's great news.  So I guess they didn't have to warm then cool down the magnets again, just blast it.  Very clever these CERN boffins.

Time for some Physics, lets rock! Tongue

M.
Back to Top
hifly View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Hastings UK
Points: 1012
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hifly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2015 at 9:09pm
The metal particle was identified as a 50p coin that fell out of the electricity meter.
Must Fly!
Back to Top
MarkH View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Points: 1570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2015 at 9:21pm
I think you'll find it was a €0.50 coin or maybe a Swiss 0.50 Franc coin.  There's a great sketch there somewhere, the CERN boss going to Le ASDA to fill up their electricity card. LOL  Mon Dure!!!

M.
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2015 at 11:50am
http://www.theguardian.com/science/life-and-physics/2015/apr/05/large-hadron-collider-restart-live-blog

The beams are on!

Back to Top
MarkH View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Points: 1570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2015 at 11:55am
Slowly getting that beam energy higher and higher.

One thing to note is even though the beam energy will be around 13TeV, the individual collision energy of the particles is much lower than this, around 4TeV.

As the proton is not a fundamental particle the collisions aren't actually proton-proton collisions at all, but either quark-quark, quark-gluon or gluon-gluon collisions.  The energy within the proton is shared roughly three ways between the quarks it's composed of, so the collision energy is around one third of the overall beam energy.  Just a little sting in the tail for those using protons in a particle beam accelerator. 

The decay of the proton however is well understood, and was the perfect method to discover the Higgs, especially as they had a good understanding as to where in the energy range the Higgs Boson should be found if it was real.  This was a great experimental test of the theory, as it is quite rare in particle physics to devise an experiment where if you find the Higgs that's great, but if it is missing at the specific range of energies you test it at, you can categorically say it doesn't exist at all and you must throw your theory in the bin.  Not so for Supersymmetry however, where the theorists can just push that energy range a little further out of reach of current experiments (within some limits;)  Those crafty Supersymmetry theorists. Wink 

M. 
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2015 at 5:56pm
Quote As the proton is not a fundamental particle the collisions aren't actually proton-proton collisions at all, but either quark-quark, quark-gluon or gluon-gluon collisions. The energy within the proton is shared roughly three ways between the quarks it's composed of, so the collision energy is around one third of the overall beam energy. Just a little sting in the tail for those using protons in a particle beam accelerator.


Do you know Mark, I had no idea that was the case. Do they have an estimate for how long it will be before we are at full energy? All being well of course, and no disasters.

Back to Top
MarkH View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Points: 1570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2015 at 6:35pm
At least a month UM, maybe longer.

M.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down