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This Knife wil blow you apart

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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2008 at 6:09pm

Odai, you need to read through all of the posts and think a bit harder. Much of what you say lacks logic.

 

There is no common consensus that capital punishment is an effective deterrent, full stop. Doesn't matter how many convoluted arguments you come up with. If you are happy to regard it as a proven deterrent based on zero consensus, it’s up to you, you’ll need to reconsider your approach if you still want to be a physicist though.

 
If you really want to be a physicist you can practise now by using the scientific methodology of  pier review and replication of results to form your opinion Wink
 
If one day, a plethora of criminologist research papers agree that it 'IS' a deterrent, then I will have a dilemma won't I, deciding if I am still against based purely on it's immorality? That day isn't here and probably never will be. Immoral in my view and that of so many, plus unproven as a deterrent makes it an easy decision for me.

 

I could carry on with a point by point debate based on your errors above, but we would be here for ever.

 

We're back to the ethics again. You still haven't answered my question Martin. Do you believe it's better to sacrifice the safety of the population (innocent) so that you don't end up being "inhumane" to the guilty criminals? Which is better?

 

I'm very surprised I need to state the obvious.

 

Why would I believe the safety of the population is sacrificed, when I don't believe capital punishment is a deterrent? It's irrelevant to me, as I don't believe it’s effective, therefore the populations aren’t at risk.

 

It's relevant to you because you regard it as a deterrent.  Sleepy

 
 
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 6:42pm
Thank god there's no death penalty!
 
Quote
 

George not guilty of Dando murder

Barry George has been found not guilty of murdering BBC television presenter Jill Dando outside her London home.

Mr George, 48, of Fulham, west London, denied shooting 37-year-old Miss Dando on her doorstep on 26 April 1999.

He was first convicted in 2001 but an Old Bailey retrial was ordered after doubt was cast on the reliability of gunshot residue evidence.

In a statement issued through his solicitor Jeremy Moore, Mr George said he was "overwhelmed" by the verdict.

Mr George added: "I want to thank my family, my legal team, my medical team and all the people who have supported me at Belmarsh, Whitemoor and Manchester prisons, and all my supporters."

But Mr Moore said: "This is not a time to celebrate. Barry George, an innocent man, has spent eight years in prison for a crime he did not commit.

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Magic Man View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 8:22pm
Although just because he was aquited doesn't mean he didn't do it... Off on a technicality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

Thank god there's no death penalty!
 


I dont think anyone would execute a guy who has a IQ of 75 and a long LONG history of mental illness with out DNA or some other clear proof of guilt Wink so maybe not a appropiate great place to post martin and would of been better in its own post

But who thought he ever did it? seems clear to most people it was a calculated  well orginised execution style killing done by a professional, not a retarded man who liked to take pics of women on buses. Sadly and as it says in that report 8 years have been wasted in finding the real killer and i find it unlikley they ever will now.

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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 9:29pm
Although just because he was acquitted doesn't mean he didn't do it... Off on a technicality.
 
Not for us to decide, thats what the law is for!
 
I don't think anyone would execute a guy who has a IQ of 75 and a long LONG history of mental illness with out DNA or some other clear proof of guilt Wink so maybe not a appropiate great place to post martin and would of been better in its own post
 
They wouldn't have put him in jail for eight years [in fact they couldn't] unless they THOUGHT they had clear proof of guilt. The police and the courts, initially at the first trial, all believed he was guilty, otherwise he wouldn't have been put in jail would he? He was not locked in a mental asylum, he was in a jail regarded as sane enough to serve a punishment, he would have been executed if we had a death penalty. If your not happy about his case think of the others accused of murder that were later found to be innocent.
 
The point is, it's a clear example of what happens, every now and again, with capital punishment,  found guilty, sentenced to death, oh dear, he was innocent after all. One Innocent person's life taken away, is one too many.
 
But who thought he ever did it? seems clear to most people it was a calculated  well organised execution style killing
 
The police and the courts!!! Thats why they convicted him.
 
I give up, I'll debate with Scratchy instead, he's very good with moral issues. PhD you know.
 
Enjoy the rest of the debate when Mr Odai arrives for another circular discussion.
 
 
 
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roachy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roachy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 9:43pm
Nooooooooooo MartinW, you add more insight into such things than the rest of people posting here all combined.
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Flightboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

Although just because he was acquitted doesn't mean he didn't do it... Off on a technicality.
 
Not for us to decide, thats what the law is for!
 
I don't think anyone would execute a guy who has a IQ of 75 and a long LONG history of mental illness with out DNA or some other clear proof of guilt Wink so maybe not a appropiate great place to post martin and would of been better in its own post
 
They wouldn't have put him in jail for eight years [in fact they couldn't] unless they THOUGHT they had clear proof of guilt. The police and the courts, initially at the first trial, all believed he was guilty, otherwise he wouldn't have been put in jail would he? He was not locked in a mental asylum, he was in a jail regarded as sane enough to serve a punishment, he would have been executed if we had a death penalty. If your not happy about his case think of the others accused of murder that were later found to be innocent.
 
The point is, it's a clear example of what happens, every now and again, with capital punishment,  found guilty, sentenced to death, oh dear, he was innocent after all. One Innocent person's life taken away, is one too many.
 
But who thought he ever did it? seems clear to most people it was a calculated  well organised execution style killing
 
The police and the courts!!! Thats why they convicted him.
 
I give up, I'll debate with Scratchy instead, he's very good with moral issues. PhD you know.
 
Enjoy the rest of the debate when Mr Odai arrives for another circular discussion.
 
 
 


I like the way you ignore somethings and blow up others out of all proportion to try and make a point. Shame as it actually weakens what may of been a reasonable point to make and makes you look foolhardy

Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:


he would have been executed if we had a death penalty


In your warped version of what you think people would be satisfield proof wise to hand out a death penalty for maybe but as always you take it to extremes

Enjoy

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Flightboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by roachy roachy wrote:

Nooooooooooo MartinW, you add more insight into such things than the rest of people posting here all combined.


Insight how? Its a debate which has diffrent opinions. Least some of us have our own Smile


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roachy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roachy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 9:59pm
There's a difference between insight and opinion, I just wish not to get into the details at this moment.
Luke Roach
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Flightboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2008 at 10:00pm
Originally posted by roachy roachy wrote:

There's a difference between insight and opinion, I just wish not to get into the details at this moment.



What a insight! hanks for posting and goodnight Smile

flightboy
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2008 at 7:08am
I like the way you ignore somethings and blow up others out of all proportion to try and make a point. Shame as it actually weakens what may of been a reasonable point to make and makes you look foolhardy
 
What!!!!!
 
Unbelievable, that's enough for me.
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Flightboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2008 at 8:14am
Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

Unbelievable, that's enough for me.


Swear i have heard that before Tongue just a observation martin not a personal attack Hug

flightboy


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2008 at 5:07pm

Quote We're back to the ethics again. You still haven't answered my question Martin. Do you believe it's better to sacrifice the safety of the population (innocent) so that you don't end up being "inhumane" to the guilty criminals? Which is better?

 

I'm very surprised I need to state the obvious.

 

Why would I believe the safety of the population is sacrificed, when I don't believe capital punishment is a deterrent? It's irrelevant to me, as I don't believe it’s effective, therefore the populations aren’t at risk.

 
OK, assuming Capital punishment is a deterrent, what would your answer be? If it were an effective deterrent, would you ignore your idea that it is immoral? Smile
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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Odai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2008 at 5:09pm
I might just give up after hearing what Martin has to say, I'm totally exhausted from this debate. Debating on a forum just doesn't work, it's too hard. .
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2008 at 6:06pm
I'm sorry Martin couldn't be here today, but he said he wouldn't contribute anymore.
 
He asked me to tell you to look 14 replies up, including this one, and to always remember to read every word, for he is a wise and wonderful master, like the ones from Star Trek.
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