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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Odai, you need to read through all of the posts and think a bit harder. Much of what you say lacks logic. There is no common consensus that capital punishment is an effective deterrent, full stop. Doesn't matter how many convoluted arguments you come up with. If you are happy to regard it as a proven deterrent based on zero consensus, it’s up to you, you’ll need to reconsider your approach if you still want to be a physicist though. If you really want to be a physicist you can practise now by using the scientific methodology of pier review and replication of results to form your opinion
If one day, a plethora of criminologist research papers agree that it 'IS' a deterrent, then I will have a dilemma won't I, deciding if I am still against based purely on it's immorality? That day isn't here and probably never will be. Immoral in my view and that of so many, plus unproven as a deterrent makes it an easy decision for me.
I could carry on with a point by point debate based on your errors above, but we would be here for ever. We're back to the ethics again. You still haven't answered my question Martin. Do you believe it's better to sacrifice the safety of the population (innocent) so that you don't end up being "inhumane" to the guilty criminals? Which is better? I'm very surprised I need to state the obvious. Why would I believe the safety of the population is sacrificed, when I don't believe capital punishment is a deterrent? It's irrelevant to me, as I don't believe it’s effective, therefore the populations aren’t at risk. It's relevant to you because you regard it as a deterrent. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Thank god there's no death penalty!
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Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
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Although just because he was aquited doesn't mean he didn't do it... Off on a technicality.
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Flightboy
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Essex, UK Points: 7396 |
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I dont think anyone would execute a guy who has a IQ of 75 and a long LONG history of mental illness with out DNA or some other clear proof of guilt so maybe not a appropiate great place to post martin and would of been better in its own post But who thought he ever did it? seems clear to most people it was a calculated well orginised execution style killing done by a professional, not a retarded man who liked to take pics of women on buses. Sadly and as it says in that report 8 years have been wasted in finding the real killer and i find it unlikley they ever will now. flightboy |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Although just because he was acquitted doesn't mean he didn't do it... Off on a technicality.
Not for us to decide, thats what the law is for!
I don't think anyone would execute a guy who has a IQ of 75 and a long LONG history of mental illness with out DNA or some other clear proof of guilt so maybe not a appropiate great place to post martin and would of been better in its own post
They wouldn't have put him in jail for eight years [in fact they couldn't] unless they THOUGHT they had clear proof of guilt. The police and the courts, initially at the first trial, all believed he was guilty, otherwise he wouldn't have been put in jail would he? He was not locked in a mental asylum, he was in a jail regarded as sane enough to serve a punishment, he would have been executed if we had a death penalty. If your not happy about his case think of the others accused of murder that were later found to be innocent.
The point is, it's a clear example of what happens, every now and again, with capital punishment, found guilty, sentenced to death, oh dear, he was innocent after all. One Innocent person's life taken away, is one too many.
But who thought he ever did it? seems clear to most people it was a calculated well organised execution style killing
The police and the courts!!! Thats why they convicted him.
I give up, I'll debate with Scratchy instead, he's very good with moral issues. PhD you know.
Enjoy the rest of the debate when Mr Odai arrives for another circular discussion.
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roachy
Chief Pilot Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: London Points: 1038 |
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Nooooooooooo MartinW, you add more insight into such things than the rest of people posting here all combined.
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Luke Roach
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Flightboy
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Essex, UK Points: 7396 |
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I like the way you ignore somethings and blow up others out of all proportion to try and make a point. Shame as it actually weakens what may of been a reasonable point to make and makes you look foolhardy
In your warped version of what you think people would be satisfield proof wise to hand out a death penalty for maybe but as always you take it to extremes Enjoy flightboy |
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Flightboy
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Essex, UK Points: 7396 |
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Insight how? Its a debate which has diffrent opinions. Least some of us have our own flightboy |
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roachy
Chief Pilot Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: London Points: 1038 |
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There's a difference between insight and opinion, I just wish not to get into the details at this moment.
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Luke Roach
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Flightboy
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Essex, UK Points: 7396 |
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What a insight! hanks for posting and goodnight flightboy |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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I like the way you ignore somethings and blow up others out of all proportion to try and make a point. Shame as it actually weakens what may of been a reasonable point to make and makes you look foolhardy
What!!!!!
Unbelievable, that's enough for me.
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Flightboy
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Essex, UK Points: 7396 |
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Swear i have heard that before just a observation martin not a personal attack flightboy |
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Odai
Chief Pilot Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
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I'm very surprised I need to state the obvious. Why would I believe the safety of the population is sacrificed, when I don't believe capital punishment is a deterrent? It's irrelevant to me, as I don't believe it’s effective, therefore the populations aren’t at risk. OK, assuming Capital punishment is a deterrent, what would your answer be? If it were an effective deterrent, would you ignore your idea that it is immoral?
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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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Odai
Chief Pilot Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
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I might just give up after hearing what Martin has to say, I'm totally exhausted from this debate. Debating on a forum just doesn't work, it's too hard.
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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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I'm sorry Martin couldn't be here today, but he said he wouldn't contribute anymore.
He asked me to tell you to look 14 replies up, including this one, and to always remember to read every word, for he is a wise and wonderful master, like the ones from Star Trek.
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