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bae 146 revisited

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flyforever View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 2:32pm
It's pretty normal to give a quick reaction to a new aircraft. In my case, with over 10 years of sim experience, I get into the cockpit and "fly" my way around without ever going through the manual. With this aircraft I was able to use the AUTO feature, which made reading the manual optional(at least, I thought so).
Not to make a long story, after becoming familiar with the aircraft and its systems, I can say that it's one of the nicest planes to come our way. It handles well both in manual mode and with the autopilot.  Part of the "less than ideal" performance some may complain about has to do with not adhering to the speeds , throttle settings and pitch settings.  In part, this is due to the fact that the 146 will not fly at all(I mean, it will fly at a very high pitch, close to stalling) or well with throttle settings under 80%. This means that so long as one manages the throttle between 80% and above, the plane will perform well under all conditions.  Of all the planes that I fly, this one appears to have the most restrictive throttle range. Once this is understood, the flight model is stable and predictable. Proper trim, too, is paramount to stable and predictable flight model.  On takeoff, any trim less than 5 requires more than a slight pull on the yoke, which can then lead some wild pitching behavior. JF is providing top support and feedback, which I am sure will lead to some improvements in the next version.  tc
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 3:06pm
80% you say.
 
From what I've read, the real aircraft should be at approximately 60% N1 when landing and 70% with the speed brakes deployed. What thrust are you seeing clean?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyforever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 4:14pm
Martin,
At 9750 lbs total weight, 5000 ft above sea level, 80% N1 setting results in 190kts and 5dgs up pitch.
At full flaps, same weight, descending from 5000 feet, 70% N1 setting results in VS-1400,and 116kts. Thus the  need to increase throttle to reduce VS and keep speed at 120 kts.
I don't deploy the air brakes until touchdown. I presume that if the air brakes were deployed, above throttle settings would be on the low end of the scale.

Acceleration and initial climb appear very good.
tc

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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2012 at 5:38pm
The speed brakes should be deployed in flight, for example on a steep approach, although some operators use them so that engine rpm is higher for approach, so that a go around is easier due to less spool up time.
 
It's the wing spoilers that should be deployed after touchdown.
 
I don't have the 146, so I'm not sure what typical landing weights are.
 
Correctly configured for the approach at typical 146 landing weight, gear down, landing flaps deployed, on the glide slope [3 degrees] at VREF+5/10... what do you see for N1? Should be 55-70% or there abouts from what I can gleen from the internet. Don't worry about pitch, it may be that there's just a minor pitch_scalar adjustment required.
 
Flaps 33 I gather is the typical landing flap.
 
Most operators approach at VREF+10, and then deploy the speed brakes [not spoilers] at decision altitude, which knocks off another 5 knots. Then it's thrust to idle at 30 feet.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyforever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2012 at 5:51pm
Martyn,
Your numbers are correct. I guess what's needed is a less sensitive throttle - N1 behavior.
For example, when the 146 throttle lever is at 70%, N1 reads 80%. My actual throttle movement has to be very very gradual in order to ensure that the craft does not overspeed or lose too much speed. I hope you guys can tweak it a bit more. Or perhaps one of the VC N1 guages could be magnified like the VSI in the virtual cockpit. There's too much squinting going on in order to ensure that N1 is set properly.
However, after a number of flights, the plane is predictable, stable, and a lot of fun to fly.
For the most part, it flies by the numbers.
One last observation concerns the lack of rudder movement when in auto rudder.
tc
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2012 at 9:04am
MartIn.
 
I'm just a lowly moderator. It's MartYn that's the super dooper just flight chappy.   Big%20smile
 
Regarding the "auto rudder". Again, I don't have the product, but do you mean yaw damper? If so it's normal for the yaw damper to behave that way. Yaw damper must be off for landing.
 
If there's a different auto rudder in the 146, my apologies.
 
 
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