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AI Planes Get Stuck Prior To Takeoff!!!!

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wayne0881 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Aug 2009 at 11:47pm
I have noticed on more than 1 occasion now that some AI planes taxi out to the Active Runway only then to sit thier and do nothing....some just then dissapear into thin air whilst the others just inch forward a bit then pause again......i've had one senerio where the planes dont even queue up they just all roll forward as if they're ALL first in line for takeoff creating 1 big merged plane!!!!!!

I use traffic x for my AI Traffic anyone else have this prob?

Any fixes for it?
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freddy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2009 at 12:19am
Yes, I have had this problem before.  It happens at airports where there is no hold short node in the airport file (AFCAD) which "triggers" the aircraft to stop at the hold short line and ask the tower for permission to takeoff.
 
This occured for me at Williamtown airport in Australia (YWLM). To fix it, the AFCAD file for that airport must be edited and the hold short node added. Or, you could try removing the Traffic X airport file for the affected airport and allowing the simulator to use the default Microsoft one in its place.
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wayne0881 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wayne0881 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2009 at 5:47pm
ok thankyou...my next question is how do i go about editing it? is it simple to do?
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freddy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2009 at 12:11am

Sorry.  I am not the expert on that.  When I mentioned my issue with the Williamtown airport (YWLM) here in the forums, another forum member was gracious enough to offer to look in to it for me and discovered the airport had the missing hold short node.  They offered to fix it for me and sent me the updated AFCAD file via personal email.  So I am not sure what is involved or how simple (or difficult?) it is.

That said, there are a number of free AFCAD editors available for download on the Internet. For example, Airport Design Editor (ADE).  If you don't already have one installed on your PC and you want to have a go, make sure you get one that is FSX compatible.  Whilst I personally have never downloaded, installed or used an AFCAD editor, I gather from reading other forum posts in this and other forums that they aren't all that difficult to come to grips with.

 

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Chuck Morse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Morse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2009 at 12:49am
I have used both AFX from Flight 1 (payware) and ADE (free).  I bought AFX before ADE came to be and like it very much.  But if all you want to do is make some minor adjustments, I would probably go with the free ADE.  There is lots of info and help available at fsdeveloper.com.   It's quite easy to use, but do read through the doc and the "sticky" topics on the forum before you dig in.
Chuck Morse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soaranden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2009 at 5:45am
The absence of a hold short node isn't the only thing that can cause backups at airports. If a hold short node is too distant from the runway, the hold short node will not function correctly and backups will occur. ADE is certainly a good tool for finding and correcting problems at airports. I've been using it for some time now, and the program, its documentation, and the assistance available through the ADE forum and related forums at FSDeveloper.com, continue to impress.

Hold short nodes that are too distant from the runway can be discovered by running the ADE fault finder. Unlike a missing hold short node, which can be easy to correct, hold short nodes that are too distant are usually too distant because of the layout of the airport's taxiways and/or runways in the vicinity of the malfunctioning node. Therefore, rearranging taxiways and/or runways may be required to enable the hold short node to be moved sufficiently close to the runway's takeoff start position. Fortunately, moving a taxiway and its associated hold short node often is all that is needed to provide a cure. Unlike moving a taxiway, moving a runway is not a trivial matter, since navigation elements in the airport's file must also be changed to reflect the runway's new position. (ADE can do this, too, if it's needed).

Dan

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Chuck Morse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Morse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2009 at 4:07pm
At what airport did you have this problem?  I could look at the stock and TrafficX versions of the airport to determine if there are indeed no hold short nodes in either version.  If going back to the stock airport would solve this problem then that would be the easiest thing for you to do.
Chuck Morse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wayne0881 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2009 at 8:38pm
i had this problem at London Gatwick (EGKK) 26R....I use real world weather so occasionally use this Runway the default 8L works fine.  to get around the problem i just ask the controller for 26L but if you could check it for me then that would be great...thanks
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wayne0881 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wayne0881 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2009 at 8:43pm
In the real world 26L/8R are the main runways 26R/8L only get used in the rare instances that the main runway is closed....so dont know why FSX made London Gatwick with 2 active runways.....but oh well!
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Chuck Morse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Morse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2009 at 1:41am
I looked at both the stock EGKK and the one provided by TrafficX and they appear to have the same hold short nodes at 26R.  However,  there does appear to be a path from the gate area to the runway that bypasses all hold short nodes.  This is going to be a little hard to describe without a picture, but there are 3 taxiways close to the threshhold for 26R. One is at a 45 degree angle and the other two are perpendicular.  All three of these have hold short nodes and they are within the proper distance from the runway link.  However, there is another taxiway (part of it is labeled "AN") which  extends to the east from the runway threshhold (planes approaching the runway on this taxiway would be lined up on the runway heading as they approach the runway.  This taxiway does not have a hold short node, so if the planes you see are approaching the runway on the runway heading then this missing hold short node may be your problem.  Unfortunately, since both the stock and trafficX versions of this airport are both missing this hold short node, deactivating the TrafficX version will not help.  If, however, the planes that are acting incorrectly are approaching the runway on one of the perpendicular runways, then the problem may be different.   I am not enough of an expert on this to know what the requirements are, but a runway is made up of two pieces: the runway definition and a runway link.  In this case the runway link for 26R extends eastward from the threshold. So the two perpendicular taxiways have their hold short nodes within the required distance from the runway link.  However the runway itself is beyond the required distance.  I suspect this is ok, but it would be interesting to know which taxiways are experiencing this problem.
Chuck Morse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wayne0881 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2009 at 8:44pm
great info thank you, yes the taxiway you mention "AN" is the one they use and get stuck on, they hold short and go no further.....  
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Chuck Morse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Morse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2009 at 7:18pm
If you have no interest in modifying airports yourself, you might look for a payware or free update to Gatwick.  I looked in the flightsim.com library and they have a free one.  I have no idea if it fixes the problem, though.  If you do download it and follow their installation instructions then you should also disable the TrafficX provided file by renaming it to .bak.
Chuck Morse
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wayne0881 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wayne0881 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2009 at 10:18pm
I wouldn't know where to start on modifying my own airports.....found one on flightsim.com but after reading about it found out that whoever designed it has made one runway for take-offs and the other for landing!!!! i'll keep my eyes peeled for one tho.....thanks for the tip..... it is slightly annoying but bearable,if i do get assisgned to 26R i'll choose to use 26L and just get on with the flight, by the time the queue starts to form i'll be well on my way hopefully!!!!! if you come across anything else you might think will help please keep posting on here for me i am very grateful
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