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Someone Stop These Eco Idiots!!!

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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Aug 2009 at 9:26pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8188409.stm

Forget the effects of climate change - these idiots will kill us first!!

We are so damn arrogant to think we're bigger than nature and know better. If we mess with it, it will kill us.

Man will be the cause of his own annihilation. It's a question of how and when, not if.

Just let the planet get on with it!!! Man has only been around ~150,000 years. That is nothing in the life of a ~4.5 billion year old planet.

Anyone who attempts to mess with the climate by any means in order to stop "climate change" should be imprisoned for life for endangering the planet (not just humans - EVERYTHING). These ideas are positively stupid.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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Marmite View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marmite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2009 at 9:42pm
I'm confused Weren't the "experts" in that article saying that using geo-engineering would cause adverse affects without further studying?
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737Chris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 737Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2009 at 3:36am
I like the idea of giant mirrors in space ! haha    STAR WARS  =P

But I dont know abuot the draught part, im no scientist!
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2009 at 9:38am

Geo-engineering is a concept being studied, studied just in case humankind is so moronic that we fail to act in time to reduce our green house gas emissions.

 

No one is suggesting that we race headlong into implementing these strategies, merely that their feasibility is assessed... just in case.

 

We are so damn arrogant to think we're bigger than nature and know better. If we mess with it, it will kill us.

 
Precisely Vulcan, for once your unique mind has hit the nail on the head, but as usual incorrectly applied the revelation.
 
And messing with it, is precisely what we have been doing since the industrial revolution, messing with the delicate balance of gases in the atmosphere, by pumping half a trillion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere. And we know what the results of the next half a trillion tons will be [within the next 20 years] because the planets historical record has already shown us.

 

Small scale geo-engineering experiments are fine, because they pose no risk and are necessary to determine their efficacy... just in case.


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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2009 at 1:25pm
Quote by pumping half a trillion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere.

Yes, but as we know, most of it was absorbed again. It doesn't get expelled into the air then stay there.

Numbers numbers numbers.... but until they're put into context, they don't mean a thing.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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Minty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Minty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2009 at 10:32pm
These concepts are like watching some of the old SciFi B-movies with mad scientists and the like,
 
BRING IT ON - er i mean the movies not the real loony scientists
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coloradoflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 12:51am
We are so damn arrogant to think we're bigger than nature and know better. If we mess with it, it will kill us.
 
Just thought I would point out that some areas on nature being messed with may help.  For instance we will all be rejoicing when we can replace our organs with ones grown from Stemcells.  Humans also love to save species that mother nature would have alreay wiped out, cows being a great example.
 
I do agree that messing with the the climate on a massive scale could well be detrimental but we may find we have to mess with it on some level to figure it out.  Inevitably humans interfere with nature, you do, i do, we all do so I think there is some half way ground here.  God knows what it is tho, I'll leave that up to the scientists.
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liamp51 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liamp51 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 3:58am
All I can say is GET OFF FOSSIL FUEL! It's are best bet for now. How about air powered cars and the like wise. Or Hydrogen powered fuel cells? We need to just stop using things that are detrimental to are planet...it might be the only one we have. In the US where I live there are some scientists that are figuring out how to make land fill junk into electric power and and other energy forms.

We need to get it together before it's to late!
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 8:13am
Originally posted by VulcanB2 VulcanB2 wrote:

Quote by pumping half a trillion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere.

Yes, but as we know, most of it was absorbed again. It doesn't get expelled into the air then stay there.

Numbers numbers numbers.... but until they're put into context, they don't mean a thing.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
 

Vulcan, once again you ignore everything discussed previously, we have done this before, we have discussed the carbon cycle before.

 

Most of it is NOT absorbed again; it's actually 25% of all CO2 produced that’s absorbed again. And that figure is diminishing rapidly!

 

You don’t pump half a trillion tons of CO2 into an atmosphere regulated by the carbon cycle and expect it to miraculously vanish, never to be seen again, never to impact the system.

 

The point is that the one trillion tons of CO2 that will be emitted by humankind within the next 20 years is over and above the amount that should be emitted by natural means, and a massive burden on the natural carbon cycle. In addition, the quantity of CO2 that is normally absorbed by the worlds oceans as a function of the carbon cycle is diminishing rapidly, as the imbalance caused by our half a trillion tons of CO2 already emitted sabotages the carbon cycle.

 

This stuff is not rocket science, but it will seem like that if you continually ignore everything discussed a few weeks back.

 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hurricanemk1c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 9:15am
All this expert stuff is rubbish.
 
How did the Ice Age finish? With aviation, cars, trains, humans? No, naturally!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSaddict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 9:57am
Originally posted by hurricanemk1c hurricanemk1c wrote:

All this expert stuff is rubbish.
 
How did the Ice Age finish? With aviation, cars, trains, humans? No, naturally!
 
[Hi from tenerife]
 
We have also discussed this before.
 
It is the rate of change as apposed to the fact that the change is happening that is the real problem.
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Magic Man View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 11:13am
Originally posted by VulcanB2 VulcanB2 wrote:

Quote by pumping half a trillion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere.

Yes, but as we know, most of it was absorbed again. It doesn't get expelled into the air then stay there.

Numbers numbers numbers.... but until they're put into context, they don't mean a thing.

 
"most of it was absorbed again" - statements statements statements... don't mean a thing when put into context.
 
We are burning fossil fuels and releasing co2 that took millions of years to form - we've 'burnt' a huge amount of it off and released that absorbed co2 in a couple of hundred years, doesn't matter how much or how quick any of it is re-absorbed, it will never be anywhere near the rate at which we are adding to it.
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 1:40pm
Quote It is the rate of change

How do we know the rate of change is bad? As I said previously - how do we know the rate of change we call "normal" is actually abnormally slow, and this "fast" rate of change is actually the true normal?

Answer: we don't. It is a made up figure.

A bit of trivia for you: humans are averse to this thing called "change". Humans prefer the status quo and don't like it when perceived norms alter, especially when they don't understand them, less control them.

Some "expert" was on the news yesterday saying that food will be in short supply as a result of "climate change". In the following sentence, he said that world population was predicted to be at 8 Billion by 2050, and that the countries we currently import food from will want to keep it for themwselves to feed their own growing populations.

Just what in the hell has climate change got to do with the fact these countries wish to keep their own products for themselves? NOTHING. Yet they are all the time trying to get us to link "climate change" with anything bad (in this case, food supply).

Their psychology and mind games don't work with me.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 3:34pm

How do we know the rate of change is bad?

 

Because human beings and other species will suffer the consequences sooner. Confused

 

And we know we are to blame because the rise in temperature is in step with our CO2 emissions since the industrial revolution.

 

 

As I said previously - how do we know the rate of change we call "normal" is actually abnormally slow, and this "fast" rate of change is actually the true normal?

 

Because we have a historical record. Not just from ice cores, but from other sources.

 

Whether the rate the temperature is changing is the norm or not, we are to blame. If it was changing slowly, we would still be to blame if the temperature rise kept pace with our emissions.

 

We can look back into the earths history and see the same correlation between CO2 increase and temperature increase, as a result of 'natural' emissions' therefore, it doesn't take a genius to appreciate that if human beings now emit the same quantity of CO2 into the atmosphere, then the consequence will be global warming. We also have a reasonably good idea as to what the consequences will be, again, because we know the consequences of the natural release of CO2 in the earth’s early history.

 

It's a simple concept, as Magic Man pointed out, mankind is releasing all the carbon, that was locked up deep under ground in the form of coal and oil, it therefore makes perfect sense that we will experience the same, or similar temperatures to when that carbon was in the atmosphere previously in history, and we have a pretty good idea what that will mean.

 
The projected one trillion tons has been in the atmosphere before, and we know what the consequences were, courtesy of natures handiwork. This time it's us rather than nature providing the CO2.
 
As you said earlier...
 
''We are so damn arrogant to think we're bigger than nature and know better. If we mess with it, it will kill us.''

We have been 'messing with it' since the industrial revolution. Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liamp51 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 8:12pm
Some other scientists also said that with the global warming that all the permafrost up on the Russian tundra would melt with global warming. In that permafrost is millions of tons of methane gas. Methane gas is way more insulating that CO2. That means that all that gas would be released and cause that much more damage.Confused
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 9:32pm
Did you know CO2 rise lags temperature rise by about 800 years?

The core samples prove it. Oh - they won't tell you that though.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 9:41pm
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/283/5408/1712

Quote

Ice Core Records of Atmospheric CO2 Around the Last Three Glacial Terminations

Hubertus Fischer, Martin Wahlen, Jesse Smith, Derek Mastroianni, Bruce Deck

Air trapped in bubbles in polar ice cores constitutes an archive for the reconstruction of the global carbon cycle and the relation between greenhouse gases and climate in the past. High-resolution records from Antarctic ice cores show that carbon dioxide concentrations increased by 80 to 100 parts per million by volume 600 ± 400 years after the warming of the last three deglaciations. Despite strongly decreasing temperatures, high carbon dioxide concentrations can be sustained for thousands of years during glaciations; the size of this phase lag is probably connected to the duration of the preceding warm period, which controls the change in land ice coverage and the buildup of the terrestrial biosphere.

Scripps Institution of Oceanography, Geosciences Research Division, University of California San Diego, La Jolla, CA 92093-0220, USA.
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 9:44pm
http://www.abd.org.uk/co2_cause_or_effect.htm

Don't laught at the site I linked to - read the links it contains.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 10:08pm
I'm very sick of seeing these kinds of posts, not that I read the rubbish here of course.
 
Those of you who continue to assert the change in climate is a conspiracy; you are not scientists. You do not understand the work scientists have done to come to their proper conclusions. These people don't rely on guesswork, and conspiracy to come up with ideas.
 
Become scientists, then you'll be able to understand exactly what they are saying, and how we are in danger.
 
These people know far, far better than you. Looking through quickly, it's quite laughable the arguments you try to throw at each other. They're completely unscientific, they have no decent foundation. Completely meaningless. Put simply Vulcan, it's you that's the "idiot", not these "eco" guys. Don't take that as a personal insult, lots of (too many) people are just like you.
 
I'm no climate scientist, therefore nothing I say about this, no graphs I link, is solid. I can't understand what a climatist would tell me, neither can you. I do however understand how a scientist works, so I'll just trust them. Why don't you?
 
Let the poor guys do their work, they know what they're doing.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2009 at 10:23pm
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