'Pupil murder bid' teacher held |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Posted: 12 Jul 2009 at 1:16pm |
Whist I dont condone the actions of the teacher, I can understand the frustrations that can lead to such a thing. Me too, but this [according to the information we have been given] goes way beyond a teacher loosing his temper, there were [allegedly] repeated blows directly to the boys skull. We are all fallible human beings, all capable of loosing out temper with unruly kids, but this smacks of something far more profound than a loss of temper. I'm in the same age group as the teacher (and you, Martin) and can remember when discipline in schools was firm if not always fair. Went way beyond ‘not always fair’ at my school, some of them were cruel and shouldn't have been teachers. Todays teachers have their hands very muh tied as the law is firmly on the side of the pupils. They, the teachers have my sympathy. Not sure if I’m interpreting that right, but if by that you mean they ‘shouldn't’ have their hands tied behind their backs and ‘should’ be allowed to administer corporal punishment, then I would disagree. They have my sympathy in terms of the difficulties of the job, but I would say their hands should be tied behind their backs in terms of corporal punishment. Teachers should not have the right to administer beatings to children. That is something too easily abused and open to interpretation. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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therefore while the teacher may not have been trying to kill the pupil, the resulting injuries from the attack warrant the charge of attempt murder Sorry, don't see the logic of that. A deliberate blow to the skull [allegedly more than one] with a heavy object, with sufficient force to cause the child to suffer a brain bleed, sounds like it justifies a charge of attempted murder to me. The definition of attempted murder is clear...
So that’s having the specific intention to cause the death of the victim! If the perpetrator hasn't a specific intention to kill the victim it's not attempted murder. There is no ambiguity in this respect. True, the information we have been given may be bogus, but that sounds unlikely at this stage, but if we are to speculate then that's the information we have to go on, the police obviously believe there is a chance of prosecution, or they wouldn't be wasting the courts time. |
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GBL
P1 Joined: 03 Apr 2008 Location: Hassocks. UK Points: 740 |
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Give the teachers tazers
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Aircraft Engines are the sound of Freedom.
ART |
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kessler
P1 Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Manchester Points: 745 |
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with regards to the charge of attempt murder, I'm no expert, even though I work for the police. There was a recent case which I worked on (in Greater Manchester), where a teenager threw a bottle at a doorman of a pub after he was refused entry. The bottle shattered against the doorway and the bottom spun off and embedded itself into the neck of a woman who happened to be just inside the doorway on her way out. It severed her jugular and she died within minutes. The teenager was subsequently charged with murder.
He was ultimately found guilty of manslaughter. He obviously hadnt intended to kill the woman but his actions had caused her death and therefore he had been charged with murder. The law seems very black and white sometimes. In my experience the charges relate in many cases to the severity of the injuries regardless of the intentons of the agressor, therefore while the teacher may not have been trying to kill the pupil, the resulting injuries from the attack warrant the charge of attempt murder. It certainly raises many questions. Whist I dont condone the actions of the teacher, I can understand the frustrations that can lead to such a thing. I'm in the same age group as the teacher (and you, Martin) and can remember when discipline in schools was firm if not always fair. Todays teachers have their hands very muh tied as the law is firmly on the side of the pupils. They, the teachers have my sympathy.
rory
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Hot_Charlie
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Points: 1839 |
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There's no excuse for it, but it'll be interesting to hear both sides of the story - the chap has a lot of support from pupils who may be able to shed light on why he did what he did. Either way, the kid's in hospital, and the book is rightly going to be well and truly thrown at the teacher.
The Mrs noted an interesting thing in the TV reports too; a class with only 20 in it - where she's taught (and happens also to be a 2ndary science teacher) the smaller class sizes have been saved for the less able, or sometimes shall we say "less willing to learn", children... ...if you get my drift. May not be the case, but I'd be quite surprised if it isn't. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Actually we probably will know, after the court case the circumstances will be in the public domain.
The media haven't at all said it's the fault of the teacher. Not the media I've been listening to. They have simply reported that the guy had been charged with attempted murder.
I'm not an expert in the law, but I doubt a push resulting in a head injury would warrant a charge of attempted murder.
He did not bang his head, he was struck on the head with an object.
He is also being questioned regarding alleged attacks on two other children.
Regardless of lack of discipline in schools, acting as a catalyst for aggression, a teacher striking a child on the head with a blunt object enough to endanger his life is extreme.
I think we are all aware that we are speculating, but such an action seems indicative of an emotional breakdown.
Attempted murder is not a side effect of a push, it's a premeditated attempt to kill someone.
The police don't charge someone with attempted murder on a whim, they do so if they feel they have a strong case.
Time will tell if the charge sticks or not. Or if psychiatric help is required.
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kessler
P1 Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Manchester Points: 745 |
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As others have already pointed out, the full details are not known, and, knowing how the system works, we probably wont ever know. If you believe just what the media is feeding us, then its all the fault of the teacher. But there are always 2 sides to any story. Bear in mind also, that the charge of attempted murder could have come about as a result of, say the kid having fallen down from being pushed and then banging his head! The fact that there is no longer any effective discipline in schools anymore - and the kids know it - is enough to make most sane law abiding people want to snap!
rory
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Makes sense Tom, but by the same token we can't have teachers that snap to such a degree that they nearly kill people.
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twright
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: London UK Points: 3303 |
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Happens everywhere. Teacher at my school a few years ago got wound up so much by his class that he hurled a chair across the room and stormed out. Nobody ever saw him again!
I don't doubt for one minute that it was the kids that drove him to it. Some kids are so difficult to deal with and nowadays teachers are powerless to do anything to stop it. All that pressure and stress builds and eventually they just snap.
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Kind regards,
Tom |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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The latest is that the teacher has been formerly charged with attempted murder.
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In Kontrol
P1 Joined: 27 Aug 2008 Location: Cumbria, UK Points: 711 |
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They're called S_lags, and there's loads of them. The type to have breasts so big you'd get lost in them and the type that look like they've gone and dived head first into a pot of flour. |
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GBL
P1 Joined: 03 Apr 2008 Location: Hassocks. UK Points: 740 |
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When i was at school there was one male teacher that was verbally abused, answered back, and basically i would call it bullied by our year. I'm surprised he never went mental. Children these days always seem to look bigger than their age and girls always seem to have bigger boobs then when i was at school. I would bet that this teacher was getting much the same and snapped and unfortunately its now attempted murder.
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Aircraft Engines are the sound of Freedom.
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ConcordeGuy
Chief Pilot Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: Peterborough UK Points: 3734 |
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He might of deserved it, the tyke
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Rides a 1999 Kawasaki ZZR600
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In Kontrol
P1 Joined: 27 Aug 2008 Location: Cumbria, UK Points: 711 |
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Correction. The kids had serious issues, which probably wizzed off the teacher so much he flipped 20 times over and decided to throttle the twonk. |
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VulcanB2
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Points: 13365 |
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The teacher has serious issues.
Best regards, Vulcan. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Of course it's too soon, precisely why I didn't SAY he went bananas, I simply speculated that maybe he did!
Speculating is allowed on forums and human nature. We aren't the authorities who aren't allowed to do such things.
I'm logging off I think, it's wind Martin up night.
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Flightboy
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Essex, UK Points: 7396 |
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How odd, seems like a well highly rated school as well but 3 kids hurts seems to say there is alot more to this story
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Rich
Just Flight Staff Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: Planet Earth Points: 8543 |
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I have no theory, just that it's too soon to say he went banana's at the moment.
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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To add weight to Mr Ras's theory, the police say a number of objects have been removed from the class. Weapons perhaps?
Who knows, they do call it shotingham!
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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I'm not making any judgements, I'm speculating.
I said it 'sounds like...'
We are allowed to speculate as we aren't the police.
It's also worth pointing out that the teacher has been arrested on the grounds of 'attempted murder'
I hardly thing he would have attacked two other children also, if he was defending himself against one armed pupil. Unless a gang of them were attacking him and then the suspicion wouldn't be attempted murder.
Sounds like [speculating again] that the kids were giving him a rough time and he snapped.
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