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A law within a law

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Rich View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 8:46am
Quote . If you are a pervert, keep it to yourself please. What if a child saw it?


I hardly think two people having sex is a perversion? I would say that witnessing one of the public stonings or lashings that regularly take place in the UAE would be more harmful for a child!
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 9:14am

Quote There you go, you've helped show there is no logical reason to not having a dual law system

 
Academic Denis MacEoin, the report's author, said the existence of the courts practising Islamic law could lead to different legal standards being applied to Muslim and non-Muslim citizens.

 It is a challenge to what we believe to be the rights and freedoms of the individual, to our concept of a legal system based on what parliament enacts, and to the right of all of us to live in a society as free as possible from ethnic-religious division or communal claims to superiority and a special status that puts them in some respects above the law to which we are all bound."

 

Quote

There are concerns for women suffering under the Islamic laws, which favours men.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I'm sick of seeing this drivel. What a load of rubbish. Clearly written by someone who has the intellect of a five year old.

 

Critics fear Britain's Islamic hard-liners will now try to make sharia law the dominant legal system in Muslim neighbourhoods, and warn that women often receive less favourable treatment at the hands of the traditional Islamic courts.

 

In all six cases, he said, sharia judges ordered husbands to take anger management classes and mentoring from community elders, but issued no further punishment.

All the women subsequently withdrew their complaints to the police, who halted investigations.

 
Right, so they beat hell out of their wifes and get anger management instead of the proper sentencing under UK law! And then the wifes have no choice but to withdraw their complaints.

 

The report states: "Among the rulings ... we find some that advise illegal actions and others that transgress human rights standards as they are applied by British courts."

Among the examples quoted are laws banning a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim unless he converts to Islam and the removal of a wife's property rights in the event of divorce.

 

But critics fear Muslim women victims will be pressured into accepting a sharia court settlement, and husbands will escape with lighter punishments than in a mainstream criminal court.

 

Douglas Murray, the director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, condemned the latest development as 'appalling.'

 

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1055764/Islamic-sharia-courts-Britain-legally-binding.html?ITO=1490

 

Seems there are a lot of five year olds about then Odai? Many of them academics.

 

Quote

A little while ago there was that case of a British man (who actually lives in the same London borough as I do) got jailed in Dubai because he was sharing a passionate moment with his girlfriend in public.

 

Which is a disgusting thing to do, nobody else wants to see it. If you are a pervert, keep it to yourself please. What if a child saw it?

 

 

Now that depends on what they did doesn’t it? Do you know Odai?

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Rich View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 9:24am
They got drunk at a party and had sex outside. 
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 9:34am
Shocked 
 
How terrible, far worse than a stoning or lashing. Anyone knows that love making is evil beyond comprehension ans stoning and lashing extremely healthy for a child to witness.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 9:38am
Maybe not a terrible act, but you should respect the laws/sensitivities of any nation that you visit. If we expect Muslims to respect our views and laws, surely we have to do the same when we go to their countries
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 9:45am
Of course, Martyn, but Richards point was that it's hardly a perversion, whereas the stoning and lashing of individuals in public, in front of children is most certainly harmful.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 3:12pm
Quote Define "significant". Given that it *does* contradict UK law in *some* ways (your admission), what ways are these? Please tell us, so we can be better informed.
 
I've already explained this... "Significant" as in significant to this topic. Sharia contradicts UK law in that it prohibits alcohol, but it is insignificant as not drinking alcohol is not going against UK law.
 
Quote I hardly think two people having sex is a perversion?
 
Of course it isn't. Having sex in public on a beach is.
 
Quote I would say that witnessing one of the public stonings or lashings that regularly take place in the UAE would be more harmful for a child!
 
I wouldn't.  Besides, why would a child be taken to see a stoning or a lashing? Confused
 
Quote
Academic Denis MacEoin, the report's author, said the existence of the courts practising Islamic law could lead to different legal standards being applied to Muslim and non-Muslim citizens.
 
So what? As a Muslim, I'm not allowed to drink alcohol, but you are. What is wrong about that?
 
Quote  It is a challenge to what we believe to be the rights and freedoms of the individual, to our concept of a legal system based on what parliament enacts, and to the right of all of us to live in a society as free as possible from ethnic-religious division or communal claims to superiority and a special status that puts them in some respects above the law to which we are all bound."
 
That's very silly indeed... Are they going to take that idea so far that the idea of a person following his own religion is going to be deemed going against the idea of a free society?
 
If a person follows Islam, then they follow Sharia! If they don't won't to be a Muslim, then they don't follow Sharia! What is the problem? They have the right to not live under Sharia, but if they want to, why not?
 
Quote

In all six cases, he said, sharia judges ordered husbands to take anger management classes and mentoring from community elders, but issued no further punishment.

All the women subsequently withdrew their complaints to the police, who halted investigations.

 
Right, so they beat hell out of their wifes and get anger management instead of the proper sentencing under UK law! And then the wifes have no choice but to withdraw their complaints.
 
So, you are saying you're taking one part of one example of one (ambiguous) ruling, of one "underground" court, from the daily fail media outlet? Aren't you aware of how silly that is? If you want to know whether Sharia is fair or not, then for God's sake do your own research!!!!!! Sharia is fair, end of. Look it up, research it.
 
Quote The report states: "Among the rulings ... we find some that advise illegal actions and others that transgress human rights standards as they are applied by British courts."
 
Like I said, in that case, it would simply not apply would it?
 
Quote Among the examples quoted are laws banning a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim unless he converts to Islam and the removal of a wife's property rights in the event of divorce.
 
Why do you continue to post as if you haven't read anything I've written? I sincerely hope you're not doing this deliberately. I've already answered that. Like I said (again), you have to look at the bigger picture, which you will see is fair.  Just read what I wrote in my last post....
 
Quote

But critics fear Muslim women victims will be pressured into accepting a sharia court settlement, and husbands will escape with lighter punishments than in a mainstream criminal court.

 

Douglas Murray, the director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, condemned the latest development as 'appalling.'

 

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1055764/Islamic-sharia-courts-Britain-legally-binding.html?ITO=1490

 

Seems there are a lot of five year olds about then Odai? Many of them academics.

 
One man counts as many academics now then? Strange. Can't you see how the language of the article shows how completely retarded it is? I'd have thought you'd know better than to look up this pile of rubbish when discussing something so serious.
 
Quote How terrible, far worse than a stoning or lashing. Anyone knows that love making is evil beyond comprehension ans stoning and lashing extremely healthy for a child to witness.
 
Are you saying it's OK for people to have sex in public? What a joke...
 
And, yet again, since when are children taken to witness lashings?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 4:05pm
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That's very silly indeed...
Aren't you aware of how silly that is?
for God's sake do your own research!!!!!! Sharia is fair, end of. Look it up, research it.
Why do you continue to post as if you haven't read anything I've written?
I sincerely hope you're not doing this deliberately
I'd have thought you'd know better than to look up this pile of rubbish when discussing something so serious. 
 Are you saying it's OK for people to have sex in public? What a joke...
 
I see your impoliteness has made a return. That didn't take long did it?
 
I suggest you read again the comments made in the articles concerned [and the few I made] and interpret them correctly.
 
You can debate this with others after your arrogance and rudeness. I'm afraid you have issues to deal with.
 
Have fun!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 4:15pm
Quote Sharia is fair, end of. Look it up, research it.


This is from "Gulf News" based in Dubai
Quote

A 15-year-old expatriate girl living in Abu Dhabi will be flogged 90 times before being deported from the UAE for committing adultery.

The sentence was handed down by the Abu Dhabi Criminal Court and supported by the Supreme Federal Court. The girl was charged by the criminal court with committing adultery at the age of 15.

The Prosecution claimed the girl was involved in an illicit relationship with a man and said she should be punished according to the Shariah Law. The court also sentenced the man involved with her.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 4:17pm
Adultery at 15, at what age do they get married over there?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 5:56pm
Quote Of course it isn't. Having sex in public on a beach is.

What do you think people did before houses were invented?? .

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 6:15pm
Quote What do you think people did before houses were invented??
 
If these people are that backward, then they need to be locked up...
 
Quote This is from "Gulf News" based in Dubai...
 
Like I said, what is unfair? It is the same for males.
 
You may not agree with this particular ruling, but have you ever considered the impact on a family due to adultery? 
 
Quote
I see your impoliteness has made a return. That didn't take long did it?
 
I suggest you read again the comments made in the articles concerned [and the few I made] and interpret them correctly.
 
You can debate this with others after your arrogance and rudeness. I'm afraid you have issues to deal with.
 
Have fun!
 
Martin, you have serious problems. You should read some of the things you write. I've never had problems with anyone else, anywhere. Your problems seem to be unique. I suggest you learn a bit of patience.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 6:26pm
I've never had problems with anyone else, anywhere.
 
Really, we better not have a vote on this forum then. Many here would disagree with you I think you will find.
 
Shall we add up the members on this forum that have had a problem with your responses?
 
You don't regard your responses as rude then, or in anyway an overreaction?
 
You don't regard telling someone they have the intellect of a 5 year old as somewhat impolite then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 6:41pm
Quote Like I said, what is unfair?


True. Not so much "unfair" as totally despicable and disgusting.
Don't know if you have a sister but would you be happy for me to take her down to your local town centre and lash her with a whip just for spending time in the company of another man? Would that be "fair"?
Right now I'm torn between wanting to tell anyone who finds this kind of law acceptable to clear right off out of this civilised and progressive country or pleading with anyone who lives under Shariah rule to pack their bags and come over here as soon as they possibly can to get away from such disgusting laws.

Unbelievably this picture isn't from some film where they travel back to the dark ages, it was taken last year.



Quote Some took pictures on mobile telephones, others climbed traffic lights for a better vantage point as Ghanbari was marched to the centre of the square under the watch of blue-uniformed guards carrying machine guns.



 
Quote those receiving floggings included a woman, who had been forced into prostitution as an eight-year-old, receiving 99 lashes because of "acts contrary to chasity."

Earlier this year, a man was flogged after a copy of the Bible was found in his car.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 7:39pm
Quote Don't know if you have a sister but would you be happy for me to take her down to your local town centre and lash her with a whip just for spending time in the company of another man? Would that be "fair"?
 
Adultery:
 
Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse.
 
A number of cases that you refer to as disgusting are against Sharia, as I've said a millions times over and over. The vast majority of Sharia rulings are lawful. It's funny how you only pick out the examples of "rogue" punishments?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 737Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

I've never had problems with anyone else, anywhere.
 
Really, we better not have a vote on this forum then. Many here would disagree with you I think you will find.
 
Shall we add up the members on this forum that have had a problem with your responses?
 
You don't regard your responses as rude then, or in anyway an overreaction?
 
You don't regard telling someone they have the intellect of a 5 year old as somewhat impolite then.



I had a big problem with him Martin, still do.  I know others who do but will definately NOT speak on their behalf.

Respectfully
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 7:45pm
But these supposedly "rogue" punishments are what really count. 90% of what any horrible regime does is normally fine and much the same as any normal one, it's how far stuff can go and still be acceptable that really counts.  None of the people clamouring all over each other to get a good view could have been remotely concerned that it was a violation of Sharia law in a country where religious laws are so strictly adhered to.


My apologies, let me rephrase my wording:

Don't know if you have a sister but would you be happy for me to take her down to your local town centre and lash her 90 with a whip until she bled, for committing adultery? Would that be "fair"?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 7:46pm
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Really, we better not have a vote on this forum then. Many here would disagree with you I think you will find.
 
Shall we add up the members on this forum that have had a problem with your responses?
 
You don't regard your responses as rude then, or in anyway an overreaction?
 
You don't regard telling someone they have the intellect of a 5 year old as somewhat impolite then
 
I'm growing weary of this... Will you stop taking what I say out of context? I was referring to the garbage the Daily Mail tend to publish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 7:46pm
RAS, like I said, why don't you take the time to research this on reliable sources yourself?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 7:58pm
I did. From an Arab based news source.

And a picture tells a thousand words.

Is it that you are denying that the events described and shown above took place or were perhaps taken out of context?

Maybe we are confusing "law" and "punishment" here. However, if this sort on punishment is allowed or indeed deemed "fair" then it has no place in the UK.

I'm not religious but I've got more chance of making it into heaven than those two masked cowards beating on that guy being held down by the other guys.
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