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A law within a law

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Odai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 5:47pm
Quote Is that clear?
 
Again, no. As usual you provide no reasoning behind your idea that having a parallel system of law is detrimental. Yet again, the significance of having another system of law (which does not contradict UK law in any significant manner) is exaggerated.
 
BTW, I'm not even sure if having Sharia in a non-Muslim majority society is permitted under Islam, I am merely pursuing this out of interest.
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 6:35pm
Quote As usual you provide no reasoning behind your idea that having a parallel system of law is detrimental.

Dude, we don't want a parallel system!!!!! PERIOD!!!!! To hell with whether it is detrimental or not!!!!!! You miss the fundamental argument.

This is the UK - UK law applies, and nothing else. Get used to it.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 737Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 6:41pm
I cant beleive Odai still doesnt think that UK Law should be the only law that should apply within the UK.
Good luck to everybody else but I dont think I'll participate further more than this point, unless I'm sure it wont end up in argument.

I will say finally though that I do feel quite sickened, but more upset by you Odai, I am proud of my country and wish for it to remain under UK law.  UK ONLY . END OF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 6:52pm

Quote There are as many as 85 sharia courts operating in Britain, according to a new report.

Academic Denis MacEoin, the report's author, said the existence of the courts practising Islamic law could lead to different legal standards being applied to Muslim and non-Muslim citizens.

He said many of the courts operate out of mosques and their rulings are closed off to non-Muslims.

In previous reports it was claimed there were only five sharia courts in the UK, working in London, Manchester, Bradford, Birmingham and Nuneaton.

He said: "This is not a matter of eating halal meat or seeking God's blessing on one's marriage. It is a challenge to what we believe to be the rights and freedoms of the individual, to our concept of a legal system based on what parliament enacts, and to the right of all of us to live in a society as free as possible from ethnic-religious division or communal claims to superiority and a special status that puts them in some respects above the law to which we are all bound."

His report, published by the think-tank Civitas, includes a list of previous sharia judgements which he believes give an indication of the type of ruling being handed down by the courts working in the UK.

Among the examples quoted are laws banning a Muslim woman from marrying a non-Muslim unless he converts to Islam and the removal of a wife's property rights in the event of divorce.

The report states: "Among the rulings ... we find some that advise illegal actions and others that transgress human rights standards as they are applied by British courts."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 6:59pm
Dominic Grieve, the shadow home secretary, said: "If it is true that these tribunals are passing binding decisions in the areas of family and criminal law, I would like to know which courts are enforcing them because I would consider such action unlawful. British law is absolute and must remain so."
 
 
Lawyers have issued grave warnings about the dangers of a dual legal system and the disclosure drew criticism from Opposition leaders.
 
 
There are concerns for women suffering under the Islamic laws, which favours men.
 
 

Mr Siddiqi said that in a recent inheritance dispute handled by the court in Nuneaton, the estate of a Midlands man was divided between three daughters and two sons. The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British court, the daughters would have got equal amounts.

In the six cases of domestic violence, Mr Siddiqi said the judges ordered the husbands to take anger management classes and mentoring from community elders. There was no further punishment. In each case, the women subsequently withdrew the complaints they had lodged with the police and the police stopped their investigations.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2957428/Sharia-law-courts-operating-in-Britain.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote In Kontrol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by 737Chris 737Chris wrote:

I am proud of my country


Really? Shocked
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737Chris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 737Chris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 7:10pm
Yes I am proud

I probably shouldnt say that though !.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 8:12pm
Okay perhaps my comment about Mosques I left late last night was a bit too extreme, and i'm sorry if it offended anyone.
 
But seriously, if you went to Dubai and wanted to build a Christian church you would be shot.  If you walk down a street in Dubai with no shirt on (not that I would) you would get arrested. A little while ago there was that case of a British man (who actually lives in the same London borough as I do) got jailed in Dubai because he was sharing a passionate moment with his girlfriend in public. So why can they be so strict about things like this, and over here we let them walk all over our laws - for example those veils. Hoodies and baseballs caps have been banned in a lot of public areas because they're anti-social. But Muslims are allowed to wear those veils, which cover up more of the face than a baseball cap. We've even had to consider changing our nurses uniforms just so it better suits their culture. Now I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but please, what gives them the right to disrespect our laws and values as a Christian country?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 8:16pm
Quote But seriously, if you went to Dubai and wanted to build a Christian church you would be shot.
 
And doesn't that make you feel like our county is better than theirs? If so, then why would we want to lower ourselves to their level?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 8:28pm
Agree with Vulcan on this. As said, any section of the community can create and live by whatever rules they want as long as those rules do not break any laws of the country they are in.
 
But this is the UK and the laws of the UK are passed by our parliment and they are the only laws that apply. It's just plain rediculous to even think of having some sort of separate legal system depending on religion. I bet Mr Dawkins would have a field day with that.
 
If someone attends a kangaroo court and decides to abide by their decision then more fool them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 8:28pm
True RAS, very true.
Kind regards,
Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote In Kontrol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 9:05pm
Originally posted by 737Chris 737Chris wrote:

Yes I am proud

I probably shouldnt say that though !.


That's what I was getting at. WinkTongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 9:05pm
I think the point twight was making was that you can't just go in such countries and dictate to them how they're going to do things.

I agree. Should be the same here.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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twright View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 10:00pm
Originally posted by VulcanB2 VulcanB2 wrote:

I think the point twight was making was that you can't just go in such countries and dictate to them how they're going to do things.
 
Exactly.
Kind regards,
Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 10:02pm
Maybe in a million years we will have a dual recognised legal system, but I doubt it. I really wouldn't be worried about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by RAS RAS wrote:

Maybe in a million years we will have a dual recognised legal system, but I doubt it
 
A legal system based on religion? Different laws depending on your beliefs?
 
Wonderful, what next, different laws depending on race?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 10:16pm
? Not sure where that came from.

But anyway, surely our legal system is based on religion? Shops were forbidden to open on a Sunday until quite recently religious grounds and even now they are limited to when they can open
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 10:38pm
They are, yes, but the idea of which ;egal system you fit under based on Religion...?

I'm not religious in any way, so does that mean I'm currently exempt from UK law? One of the truly free! Approve

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 11:21pm
Quote Dude, we don't want a parallel system!!!!! PERIOD!!!!! To hell with whether it is detrimental or not!!!!!! You miss the fundamental argument.

This is the UK - UK law applies, and nothing else. Get used to it.

 
There you go, you've helped show there is no logical reason to not having a dual law system. Just a load of mistrust and childish pride. It's thinking like that that holds us back. Ermm
 
Quote I cant beleive Odai still doesnt think that UK Law should be the only law that should apply within the UK.
Good luck to everybody else but I dont think I'll participate further more than this point, unless I'm sure it wont end up in argument.

I will say finally though that I do feel quite sickened, but more upset by you Odai, I am proud of my country and wish for it to remain under UK law.  UK ONLY . END OF
 
Same as I said before.
 
Quote
There are concerns for women suffering under the Islamic laws, which favours men.
 
 
I'm sorry, but I'm sick of seeing this drivel. What a load of rubbish. Clearly written by someone who has the intellect of a five year old.
 
Quote But seriously, if you went to Dubai and wanted to build a Christian church you would be shot.  If you walk down a street in Dubai with no shirt on (not that I would) you would get arrested.
 
That's a completely worthless argument, when applied here. I've already said, Sharia does not contradict UK law in any significant way. If you walked on Dubai's streets half naked, you are going against the law! But if you didn't do that in the UK, in accordance with Sharia, you're not going against the law.
 
Quote A little while ago there was that case of a British man (who actually lives in the same London borough as I do) got jailed in Dubai because he was sharing a passionate moment with his girlfriend in public.
 
Which is a disgusting thing to do, nobody else wants to see it. If you are a pervert, keep it to yourself please. What if a child saw it?
 
Quote So why can they be so strict about things like this, and over here we let them walk all over our laws - for example those veils. Hoodies and baseballs caps have been banned in a lot of public areas because they're anti-social. But Muslims are allowed to wear those veils, which cover up more of the face than a baseball cap.
 
Honestly, it just gets more and more silly as I go on. How do you miss this stuff?!?!?!? Hoodies were banned due to their association with gangs of youths. For God's sake, use a little common sense! Don't you see the posters they have on nearly every shop?
 
 
Quote Now I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but please, what gives them the right to disrespect our laws and values as a Christian country?
 
Complying with Sharia is NOT DISRESPECTING UK LAW. It's something individuals such as yourself decide to make up because there is no reasonable argument to use. How is covering your hair, or wearing a more modest uniform disrespectful of UK law? Come on... And FYI, ME countries with populations of other religions do have Churches, Synagogues etc.... Syria, Palestine, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt are all full of them. Just more proof your post has absolutely no well-thought out reasonable argument. You're making all of this stuff up aren't you?
 
Quote It's just plain rediculous to even think of having some sort of separate legal system depending on religion.
 
Again, why?
 
We're just going round in circles here, I keep asking the same things. The significance of Sharia law (APPLIED TO MUSLIMS ONLY) running parallel to standard UK law is, as I said, exaggerated.
 
Quote I think the point twight was making was that you can't just go in such countries and dictate to them how they're going to do things.

I agree. Should be the same here.
 
That's not what's happening though, is it? These are British people who want to have Sharia law applied to them. They are not coming "into your country and dictating how you do things".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 3:42am
Quote Sharia does not contradict UK law in any significant way.

Define "significant". Given that it *does* contradict UK law in *some* ways (your admission), what ways are these? Please tell us, so we can be better informed.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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