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The Aircraft Performance Thread!!
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allardjd View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Location: Florida - USA
Points: 4506 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allardjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2009 at 11:41pm

hobofat,

You're quite right - JD did us all a great favor by deriving and publicizing those stats.  It represents a lot of work and we should all be appreciative of it.  He was being too hard on himself when he suggested his data might be imprecise because of the AC being heavily loaded - that will not affect fuel consumption per unit of time.

As you noted, and as other users should be aware, results are always subject to different variables and parameters.

The same AC by a different developer may very well behave differently.  A different model of the same aircraft may have different performance characteristics.  Altitude, temperature, and power settings will all have an effect on fuel burn per hour.  JD's numbers are a good starting point and will get us in the ball park, but prudent operators will carry a fuel reserve (if for no other reason than fickle winds aloft) and refine the planning numbers they use over time as they become more familiar with how their particular AC performs when operated according to their own habits and preferences.

John
John Allard
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JD-LincsUK View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Location: Pluto
Points: 72 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD-LincsUK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 9:00am
Firstly, to hobofat - don't worry, as I didn't take your comments as criticism at all - I read exactly as you meant it Wink

Models of the same aircraft but from different developers always seem to differ in performance stats and therefore your info is very useful to anyone who has the MAAM-SIM DC-3.

Secondly a general point to anyone who uses those stats I've posted, as John says, these figures are merely something that you can enter into the relevant boxes and use for rough guidance whilst importing aircraft into AH, just to get you started.

You will be able to see how the aircraft performs as you use it within AH, not least by using the fuel burn and similar stats in the inbuilt flight reports. You can then adjust the figures yourself in the aircraft management pages if you find that you are using less fuel (which is always likely to be the case, rather than more fuel).

I did this list because I found myself stuck when I wanted to import some aircraft and had no idea what to put into the fuel burn and range boxes. I also did some default aircraft as I found the quoted figures sometimes a bit wide of the mark. The weights are quoted for comparison purposes. The other info is just for.... erm... info! Big%20smile

JD
uler Beta Test Team
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JD-LincsUK View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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Points: 72 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD-LincsUK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 9:09am
Originally posted by allardjd allardjd wrote:

Quote I forgot to mention that the fuel burn figures were calculated immediately the aircraft was settled into the cruise, rather than an average over the entire range - so they were quite heavy.

The engines burn what they burn at a given air density and power setting.  The engines are unaffected by whether the AC is light or heavy.  If the measure is fuel consumed per unit of time (as opposed to fuel consumed per unit of distance) it's not going to vary as you burn off fuel.

John



Forgot about this one - surely the aircraft will require more power to keep at the same speed and altitude if it is heavier, though?

JD
uler Beta Test Team
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allardjd View Drop Down
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Location: Florida - USA
Points: 4506 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allardjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 2:42pm

Quote Forgot about this one - surely the aircraft will require more power to keep at the same speed and altitude if it is heavier, though?

JD,

That's exactly right - same speed.  If that's part of the criteria, it changes everything we said above.  

For a given air density and power setting, however, the fuel burn will be constant.  As the AC burns off fuel and becomes lighter, the angle of attack (and induced drag) will lessen slightly and speed will increase, everything else remaining constant.  Fuel burn will not change with weight if air density and power setting don't change, but airspeed will.

John
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Herege View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Points: 362 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Herege Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2009 at 12:13am

 Airbus A300-600F Dedicated freighter model

EOW 90 100 kg (198 600 lb)

MZF 130 000 kg (286 600 lb)

MTOW 168 000 kg (370 400 lb)

MLW 140 000 kg (308 600 lb)

Max cruise speed 480 kts (553 mph) 890 kph @ 7 620 m (25 000’)

Fuel capacity 68 150 litres (14 990 gal) 18 000 US gal

Runway required T/O 2 290 m (7 515’)

Runway required Ldg 1 555 m (5 100’)

Payload Maximum: 55 017 kg (121 290 lb)
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spidierox View Drop Down
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Joined: 09 Mar 2009
Points: 186 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spidierox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2009 at 10:30am

Quote Forgot about this one - surely the aircraft will require more power to keep at the same speed and altitude if it is heavier, though?

JD,

Look at the engine as a power source - forget about speed a moment

Engine performance - the power output is affected by altitude, temperature and humidity.
Whenever one of these changes you effect the performance of the engine.
I use this little mind trick : engine performance is affected by the 3 H's:
- Height
- HOT
- Humidity
 
Dieter
 

 

If you can carry it, we can transport it.
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hobofat View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Location: Honolulu, HI
Points: 42 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hobofat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2009 at 1:14am
A good resource that helped me understand all the above issues was the Propliner Tutorial written by FSAviator, obtainable at http://www.calclassic.com/tutorials.htm.  I will go ahead and say that I find FSAviator to be quite dramatic in his writing style, and very one-dimensional, but there is a wealth of information and a good starting point, though it's directed towards piston-engined propliners, it does try to differentiate the difference between that and other types of engines.
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allardjd View Drop Down
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Location: Florida - USA
Points: 4506 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allardjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2009 at 2:31am

With any engine type, at a given power setting and air density, fuel burn will be a constant.  AC weight does not affect it.  Speed will vary with AC weight but fuel burn will not vary unless the power setting and/or air density change.

As noted above, temperature, altitude, humidity affect density.
 
John
 
 
John Allard
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mickforce View Drop Down
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Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Location: UK
Points: 1 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickforce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2009 at 7:42pm

Boing 767-300

460 kts
1844 gal/hr
5990 NM
250 KT Vfe
270 KT Vle
 
I love my LevelD!
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Freight Dawg View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 May 2009
Points: 18 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Freight Dawg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2009 at 2:14pm
Someone needs to do a 767-300ER model using the new winglets.  I've only flown them at light weights and we were seeing 5,700 to 5,500 PPH per side at FL390 for roughly 1,672 Gal/Hr.  The airplane flies a degree or two more nose down, it definitely has more lift out there. 

That's 9% lower than the Level D numbers, but we have no idea what assumptions are built into that fuel burn.

While JD Lincs is correct on his fuel burn discussion, the FMC provides VNAV cruise speeds based on winds aloft (faster into a headwind, slower to take advantage of tail winds), weight, temperature, and cost index.  Your fuel burn relates to how fast you are pushing the airplane.  At hevier weights the wind requires more airflow to maintain the same angle of attack... so heavier you definately burn more fuel.

Look for charts that show the numbers graphically, or build a model based on 1st hour, second hour, third hour, etc...
Regards,
Smiling Bob, Capt
Enzyte Air Cargo, LLC
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Freight Dawg View Drop Down
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Joined: 07 May 2009
Points: 18 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Freight Dawg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2009 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by BradS BradS wrote:

The specific performance information that is needed is:
PDMG MD11 Cargo - PDMG
  1. Cruise Speed (knots) = 482
  2. Fuel Consumption (Gallons/hour) = 2,686
  3. Range (nautical miles) = 8,225*
  4. Vfe - maximum speed flaps extension = 280
  5. Vle - maximum speed landing gear = 260
  6. Cargo Capacity = 126,202.2
  7. Cost = $134,818,200.00
Leonardo MD82/83/88  "Mad Dog"

  1. Cruise Speed (knots) = 467
  2. Fuel Consumption (Gallons/hour) = 895
  3. Range (nautical miles) = 2,100*
  4. Vfe - maximum speed flaps extension = 280
  5. Vle - maximum speed landing gear = 300
  6. Cargo Capacity = 31,014
  7. Cost = $ 33,565,040.00
Regards,
Smiling Bob, Capt
Enzyte Air Cargo, LLC
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Hendrix View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 May 2009
Location: Sweden
Points: 152 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hendrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2009 at 11:01am
Found a very good site to lift info from:

http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/

On the top left on the menu there is a button for english, for those who dont speak german :)

//Hendrix
CargoScan CEO

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charlie View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Location: Yorkshire
Points: 357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charlie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2009 at 7:31pm
Pilatus Porter  (PC6)

Range without external tanks:   500nm
Range with external tanks:    860nm

MTOW:    6173

Fuel burn:   39Gals/hr
_________
Charlie
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shaundale View Drop Down
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Joined: 09 May 2009
Points: 28 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shaundale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2009 at 10:53pm
Another Link to a site that shows Everything you need, Currently on Airbus Fleet BUT does have a search so could find other Planes. Don't have time to look, pay as go intnet, sorry.
 
 
Regards,
Shaun.
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Mickel View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 May 2009
Location: Adelaide
Points: 161 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2009 at 1:12pm
For fixed gear, should Vle be set to Vne?  (Vne = don't go faster than this... ever)
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tomkrist View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Points: 7 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomkrist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2009 at 8:08pm
I need range (nm) and fuel/hour burn(usg) for this planes/addons if any have:P

Airbus Wilco Collection(1,2+a380)
A319
A320
A321(not sure if default is correct?)
A330
A340
A380

wilco pic 737-300
wilco pic 737-400
wilco pic 737-500

Pmdg Md11
pmdg 747

Also for the wilco Legacy and boing 777

and the aerosoft piper cheyenne + catalina x planes.

If any can help i would be very happy.
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SirDixie View Drop Down
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Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Location: EGVN
Points: 26 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SirDixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2009 at 11:09pm
These figures are worked out from some RAF numbers, the figures are based on their tanker aircraft so might be slightly different to civilian versions.  However, seeing as the tankers are mostly stripped out inside they would probably make a decent approximation to cargo versions of the types. Smile

Lockheed L1011-500 Tristar
470 kts
2600 gal/hr
5509NM


Vickers VC-10
502 kts
2311 gal/hr
5000 NM

Vickers Super VC-10
505 kts
2311 gal/hr
5200 NM
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Mickel View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 May 2009
Location: Adelaide
Points: 161 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 5:52am
C-152:
95kts
6.6Gal/hr
380NM
Roughly real world figures
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ATL98A View Drop Down
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Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Location: Western Canada
Points: 171 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ATL98A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2009 at 4:32am
With the ATL98A you may wish to consider that the standard fuel load used to max out at 2400 USG. This was governed by the oil quantity.................if you had long range oil tanks fitted you could load, if i remember correctly, 2868 USG. Fuel burn depended to a great extent on MP and prop rpm..............no standard burn. I will try and rummage for my old notes for more info..........if it is wanted. 250 mph at 10,000 ft is generous. Glad to see the old girl warrants an honourable mention in the awesome AH programme.
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mugc View Drop Down
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Joined: 04 Jul 2009
Location: Vancouver, BC
Points: 211 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mugc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2009 at 7:03pm
A bit of a dated query on the Caribou (DHC-4) post - but does anyone have the AH specs on the type - specifically the Alphasim model (Purchase Cost/Lease Dep/Lease Pay/MTOW/Cargo Capacity/etc)?  Still looking for a good medium size STOL for FSX SP2. If anyone has the alphasim product - do they know if it suffers from the autogen issue that some FS9 to FSX model ports have (clouds/trees display over the prop)?
 
Regards
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