The Aircraft Performance Thread!! |
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allardjd
Moderator in Command Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Florida - USA Points: 4506 |
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hobofat, You're quite right - JD did us all a great favor by deriving and publicizing those stats. It represents a lot of work and we should all be appreciative of it. He was being too hard on himself when he suggested his data might be imprecise because of the AC being heavily loaded - that will not affect fuel consumption per unit of time. As you noted, and as other users should be aware, results are always subject to different variables and parameters. The same AC by a different developer may very well behave differently. A different model of the same aircraft may have different performance characteristics. Altitude, temperature, and power settings will all have an effect on fuel burn per hour. JD's numbers are a good starting point and will get us in the ball park, but prudent operators will carry a fuel reserve (if for no other reason than fickle winds aloft) and refine the planning numbers they use over time as they become more familiar with how their particular AC performs when operated according to their own habits and preferences. John |
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John Allard
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JD-LincsUK
Ground Crew Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Location: Pluto Points: 72 |
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Firstly, to hobofat - don't worry, as I didn't take your comments as criticism at all - I read exactly as you meant it
Models of the same aircraft but from different developers always seem to differ in performance stats and therefore your info is very useful to anyone who has the MAAM-SIM DC-3. Secondly a general point to anyone who uses those stats I've posted, as John says, these figures are merely something that you can enter into the relevant boxes and use for rough guidance whilst importing aircraft into AH, just to get you started. You will be able to see how the aircraft performs as you use it within AH, not least by using the fuel burn and similar stats in the inbuilt flight reports. You can then adjust the figures yourself in the aircraft management pages if you find that you are using less fuel (which is always likely to be the case, rather than more fuel). I did this list because I found myself stuck when I wanted to import some aircraft and had no idea what to put into the fuel burn and range boxes. I also did some default aircraft as I found the quoted figures sometimes a bit wide of the mark. The weights are quoted for comparison purposes. The other info is just for.... erm... info! JD |
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uler Beta Test Team
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JD-LincsUK
Ground Crew Joined: 10 Apr 2008 Location: Pluto Points: 72 |
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Forgot about this one - surely the aircraft will require more power to keep at the same speed and altitude if it is heavier, though? JD |
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uler Beta Test Team
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allardjd
Moderator in Command Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Florida - USA Points: 4506 |
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JD, That's exactly right - same speed. If that's part of the criteria, it changes everything we said above. For a given air density and power setting, however, the fuel burn will be constant. As the AC burns off fuel and becomes lighter, the angle of attack (and induced drag) will lessen slightly and speed will increase, everything else remaining constant. Fuel burn will not change with weight if air density and power setting don't change, but airspeed will. John |
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John Allard
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Herege
First Officer Joined: 10 Mar 2009 Points: 362 |
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Airbus A300-600F Dedicated freighter modelEOW 90 100 kg (198 600 lb)MZF 130 000 kg (286 600 lb)MTOW 168 000 kg (370 400 lb)MLW 140 000 kg (308 600 lb)Max cruise speed 480 kts (553 mph) 890 kph @ 7 620 m (25 000’)Fuel capacity 68 150 litres (14 990 gal) 18 000 US galRunway required T/O 2 290 m (7 515’)Runway required Ldg 1 555 m (5 100’)Payload Maximum: 55 017 kg (121 290 lb) |
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spidierox
P/UT Joined: 09 Mar 2009 Points: 186 |
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JD, Look at the engine as a power source - forget about speed a moment Engine performance - the power output is affected by altitude, temperature and humidity.
Whenever one of these changes you effect the performance of the engine.
I use this little mind trick : engine performance is affected by the 3 H's:
- Height
- HOT
- Humidity
Dieter
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If you can carry it, we can transport it. |
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hobofat
Check-In Staff Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Location: Honolulu, HI Points: 42 |
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A good resource that helped me understand all the above issues was the Propliner Tutorial written by FSAviator, obtainable at http://www.calclassic.com/tutorials.htm. I will go ahead and say that I find FSAviator to be quite dramatic in his writing style, and very one-dimensional, but there is a wealth of information and a good starting point, though it's directed towards piston-engined propliners, it does try to differentiate the difference between that and other types of engines.
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allardjd
Moderator in Command Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Florida - USA Points: 4506 |
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With any engine type, at a given power setting and air density, fuel burn will be a constant. AC weight does not affect it. Speed will vary with AC weight but fuel burn will not vary unless the power setting and/or air density change. As noted above, temperature, altitude, humidity affect density.
John
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John Allard
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mickforce
Check-In Staff Joined: 30 Apr 2009 Location: UK Points: 1 |
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Boing 767-300 460 kts
1844 gal/hr
5990 NM
250 KT Vfe
270 KT Vle
I love my LevelD!
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Freight Dawg
Check-In Staff Joined: 07 May 2009 Points: 18 |
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Someone needs to do a 767-300ER model using the new winglets. I've only flown them at light weights and we were seeing 5,700 to 5,500 PPH per side at FL390 for roughly 1,672 Gal/Hr. The airplane flies a degree or two more nose down, it definitely has more lift out there.
That's 9% lower than the Level D numbers, but we have no idea what assumptions are built into that fuel burn. While JD Lincs is correct on his fuel burn discussion, the FMC provides VNAV cruise speeds based on winds aloft (faster into a headwind, slower to take advantage of tail winds), weight, temperature, and cost index. Your fuel burn relates to how fast you are pushing the airplane. At hevier weights the wind requires more airflow to maintain the same angle of attack... so heavier you definately burn more fuel. Look for charts that show the numbers graphically, or build a model based on 1st hour, second hour, third hour, etc... |
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Regards,
Smiling Bob, Capt Enzyte Air Cargo, LLC |
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Freight Dawg
Check-In Staff Joined: 07 May 2009 Points: 18 |
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Regards,
Smiling Bob, Capt Enzyte Air Cargo, LLC |
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Hendrix
P/UT Joined: 11 May 2009 Location: Sweden Points: 152 |
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Found a very good site to lift info from:
http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/ On the top left on the menu there is a button for english, for those who dont speak german :) //Hendrix |
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CargoScan CEO
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charlie
First Officer Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Location: Yorkshire Points: 357 |
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Pilatus Porter (PC6)
Range without external tanks: 500nm Range with external tanks: 860nm MTOW: 6173 Fuel burn: 39Gals/hr |
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_________
Charlie |
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shaundale
Check-In Staff Joined: 09 May 2009 Points: 28 |
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Another Link to a site that shows Everything you need, Currently on Airbus Fleet BUT does have a search so could find other Planes. Don't have time to look, pay as go intnet, sorry.
Regards,
Shaun.
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Mickel
P/UT Joined: 19 May 2009 Location: Adelaide Points: 161 |
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For fixed gear, should Vle be set to Vne? (Vne = don't go faster than this... ever)
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tomkrist
Check-In Staff Joined: 14 Jun 2009 Points: 7 |
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I need range (nm) and fuel/hour burn(usg) for this planes/addons if any have:P
Airbus Wilco Collection(1,2+a380) A319 A320 A321(not sure if default is correct?) A330 A340 A380 wilco pic 737-300 wilco pic 737-400 wilco pic 737-500 Pmdg Md11 pmdg 747 Also for the wilco Legacy and boing 777 and the aerosoft piper cheyenne + catalina x planes. If any can help i would be very happy. |
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SirDixie
Check-In Staff Joined: 21 Jun 2009 Location: EGVN Points: 26 |
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These figures are worked out from some RAF numbers, the figures are based on their tanker aircraft so might be slightly different to civilian versions. However, seeing as the tankers are mostly stripped out inside they would probably make a decent approximation to cargo versions of the types.
Lockheed L1011-500 Tristar 470 kts 2600 gal/hr
5509NM Vickers VC-10 502 kts 2311 gal/hr
5000 NM Vickers Super VC-10 505 kts 2311 gal/hr
5200 NM |
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Mickel
P/UT Joined: 19 May 2009 Location: Adelaide Points: 161 |
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C-152:
95kts
6.6Gal/hr
380NM
Roughly real world figures
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ATL98A
P/UT Joined: 27 Jun 2009 Location: Western Canada Points: 171 |
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With the ATL98A you may wish to consider that the standard fuel load used to max out at 2400 USG. This was governed by the oil quantity.................if you had long range oil tanks fitted you could load, if i remember correctly, 2868 USG. Fuel burn depended to a great extent on MP and prop rpm..............no standard burn. I will try and rummage for my old notes for more info..........if it is wanted. 250 mph at 10,000 ft is generous. Glad to see the old girl warrants an honourable mention in the awesome AH programme.
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mugc
P/UT Joined: 04 Jul 2009 Location: Vancouver, BC Points: 211 |
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A bit of a dated query on the Caribou (DHC-4) post - but does anyone have the AH specs on the type - specifically the Alphasim model (Purchase Cost/Lease Dep/Lease Pay/MTOW/Cargo Capacity/etc)? Still looking for a good medium size STOL for FSX SP2. If anyone has the alphasim product - do they know if it suffers from the autogen issue that some FS9 to FSX model ports have (clouds/trees display over the prop)?
Regards
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