This forum is in read-only mode for archive purposes, please use our new forum at https://community.justflight.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Just Chat > Just Chat - General Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Car Advice!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Car Advice!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456>
Author
Message
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2009 at 5:09pm
I'm giving up petrol and diesel, this is my next engine...
 
Back to Top
Rich View Drop Down
Just Flight Staff
Just Flight Staff
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Points: 8543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2009 at 5:21pm
Excellent. I don't think I've ever heard the ignition like that before
Back to Top
twright View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Location: London UK
Points: 3303
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2009 at 5:55pm
Would it be possible to have a car engine that ran on Jet A (kerosene)? I love the smell of Jet A fuel!!
Kind regards,
Tom
Back to Top
767nutter View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot


Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Location: Norfolk, UK
Points: 1330
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 767nutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2009 at 7:29pm

I assure you that you can!

Yes, engine wear will be greater 'if you drive it to the max' but you can of course drive sensibly and have the extra performance in reserve.

 

Ok martin lets get something straight, unless you are willing to spend a hefty amount or are rich and tuning is a hobby then yes you can tune engines under 1.4 the right way. Plus what would be the point of tuning an engine if you are just going to have the extra power in reserve? My engine isn't tuned in anyway, my maximum rpm on the tachometer is 9K, red line starts at 6.5K, so i can take it upto 6K as much as i want as they are designed to rev that high, no problem, this is enough power for me, because as soon as my car goes past 4K my valves open for that extra boost.

Lets look at me. If i want to get a bit of power out of mine ( say just 50-100bhp extra ) here is a basic list of what i'll need:

Pipercross Viper Induction Kit £189.99

Manifold, sport cat, and cat back system. £800+

Suspension Kit to lower my suspension by 15-20mm. £298.99

Brakes, for me the most common (and from what I can tell easiest) up grade for the spongy brakes that come on all smaller engines is the 262mm upgrade from larger engined Rovers/MGs, For more powerful brakes, the 282mm upgrade from ZR160s and ZS180s is an easy one to do. But not cheap

Insurance: Oh dear, insurance companies hate tuned cars, add about 30-60% extra on what you would normally pay.

And heres some brilliant quotes from the MG-Rover.org Forums, ( bear in mind this isn't just for MG or Rover owners this is for all sorts of car owners. )

''If youve got a 1.8 or a 1.6 tuning a is viable. If you have a 1.4... Dont''

 

''TB's, manifolds, exhausts, induction kits are expensive when added up and don't even return much power considering the cost.''


''Much, infact very much, would need to be changed to do the job right.
As a quick run down:

Turbo
oil & water feeds
intercooler
piping
ECU, probably have to go aftermarket
manifolds
injectors
wiring
gearbox
pistons
rods''

and perhaps the engine management system 'chipped' in addition

Chips generally do not work for engines under 1.4, Most you will get is 20+bhp.They trick the ECU into thinking its cold all the time, and the ECU pumps more fuel in to warm the engine. This is bad. Your engine will sieze.

 

 

MartinW, Magic Man, In Kontrol heres a nice little note about torque from the MG-Rover forums, this is based on all vehicle types.

http://google.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=188462

Back to Top
Magic Man View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Location: South Wales
Points: 5336
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2009 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

I know the Audi A5 2.0 petrol has approaching the same torque as you quote for your Freelander WITHOUT a turbo. 

 
350nM compared to 400nM...? Smile
No turbo? What does the T in TFSI stand for...?Wink
Back to Top
Dambuster View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Points: 3428
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dambuster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2009 at 9:03pm
It's a 2.0 TSI, very nice stuff indeed... But it sucks in more fuel than a 2.0 (CR not PD) TDI... Also look at the bhp/NM ratio, it's entirely different from a same size diesel...
Back to Top
In Kontrol View Drop Down
P1
P1
Avatar

Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Location: Cumbria, UK
Points: 711
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote In Kontrol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2009 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by 767nutter 767nutter wrote:

MartinW, Magic Man, In Kontrol heres a nice little note about torque from the MG-Rover forums, this is based on all vehicle types.

http://google.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=188462

 
Thanks for that pointless thread about torque that I already know and wouldn't have spent 2 years at college learning about...Thumbs%20Down
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2009 at 8:45am

Ok martin lets get something straight, unless you are willing to spend a hefty amount or are rich and tuning is a hobby then yes you can tune engines under 1.4 the right way.

 

Exactly, you can then, who said anything about money? I didn’t.

 

Plus what would be the point of tuning an engine if you are just going to have the extra power in reserve?

 

My point, is that if you utilise it's maximum capability all the timelike a boy racer maniac, then wear will be quicker, but power is most useful in emergency situations, or when overtaking on long stretches of country roads. I'm 51 you see, not a boy racer that leaves tyre marks on the road.

 

By the way, I'm not advocating small engine tuning, just made a point that it is possible to tune small engine cars. The reason I made that comment was because you said...

 

You can never tune an engine below a 1.4 in the ''right'' way.

 

it will wear the engine out much quicker

 

You can ‘tune the engine the right way’ and rate of engine wear is down to the way the owner drives it.

 

It’s a bit like overclocking CPU’s, yes your CPU will theoretically wear quicker but it depends on the degree of overclock and whether the reduction in lifespan is beyond the time you would replace it or not.

 

When I was a lad, I had a friend with a very highly tuned mark one Escort; it lasted for years, no premature engine wear for him at all. Rust killed it not engine wear.

 

 

I must say you young lads are get very assertive about this stuff. Big%20smile

Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2009 at 8:56am
Originally posted by Magic Man Magic Man wrote:

Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

I know the Audi A5 2.0 petrol has approaching the same torque as you quote for your Freelander WITHOUT a turbo. 

 
350nM compared to 400nM...? Smile
No turbo? What does the T in TFSI stand for...?Wink
 
Probably not the car I'm thinking of then smarty pants.
 
Hear you go, and as this ridiculous debate concerning something I care very little about, concerned performance...
 
Now shut up before I nip down to Wales and crush your Freelander with a Challenger tank.
 
Quote

Petrol

Still the best choice for performance when driving, petrol is the most popular fuel with motorists across the UK. 

Pros:
• Responsive
• Quieter than diesel
• Petrol engines are generally cheap to repair
• Faster revving

Cons:
• Petrol engines are less environmentally-friendly than their diesel counterparts
• It’s non-renewable
• Produces more CO2 than other fuel types

Each type of petrol has its own research octane rating (RON). The higher the number, the better performing the petrol is. It essentially falls into four main categories:

1. Unleaded
The most common type of petrol, this has a RON of 95.

2. Super Unleaded
Much like unleaded, but with 98 RON it gives your vehicle better performance.

3. Leaded Four Star and Lead Replacement Petrol (LRP)
Leaded fuel was removed from sale back in 2000 and replaced by LRP. This fuel is basically 97 RON unleaded petrol with an additive to give the valve seat protection, which some cars need.

A valve seat is a surface inside a car’s engine, which rests against the air intake or exhaust valve when the valve is closed – so to stop it from moving out of place and possibly reducing the engine’s efficiency.

LRP is generally only used for vintage vehicles so is less common.

4. High Performance
Cleaner and more powerful than super unleaded, high performance fuels are also more expensive. BP Ultimate is currently the most advanced fuel in UK petrol stations, with 102 RON.

High octane racing fuels are available in specialist motor stores, with prices going up to £7 per litre for 110 RON types.

But the difference between super unleaded and high performance fuels is marginal and more obviously noticed in supercars and other high performance vehicles.

Summary:
Best for driver’s who enjoy optimal performance and a smooth ride.

Diesel

Diesel is becoming more popular, due to its efficiency benefits over petrol and its lower CO2 emissions.

Pros:
• Stays in each gear longer, helping with acceleration and reducing the need for gear changing
• High engine efficiency
• Lower CO2 emissions
• Some high performance fuels are available in diesel

Cons:
• Diesel engines are louder than their petrol counterparts
• Results in a less smooth ride
• More expensive than petrol by a couple of pence
• Higher Nitrogen Oxide (an air pollutant) emissions than petrol

Summary:
More environmentally friendly and economical for long distance drivers.

Back to Top
Martyn View Drop Down
Just Flight Staff
Just Flight Staff
Avatar
Development Manager

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Huntingdon, UK
Points: 7615
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2009 at 8:58am
I've had the pleasure of riding in a new diesel Freelander and its so smooth and quiet that you'd think it was a petrol!

The noise/smooth ride argument was valid several years ago but the modern
diesel engines are far more refined
Martyn
Just Flight Ltd
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2009 at 9:02am
It said diesel engines are louder though, rather than the car itself.
 
The Freelander probably has good sound proofing, although I'm sure the engines themselves are quieter than they used to be. My old bosses Diesel sounded like a double decker bus, quiet inside though.
Back to Top
Magic Man View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Location: South Wales
Points: 5336
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2009 at 12:58pm
Quote Best for driver’s who enjoy optimal performance and a smooth ride.
Define "optimal performance"? under which circumstances? As for "smooth ride", depends on the car. Modern diesels give as "smooth [a] ride" as their petrol counterpart and with longer time between gear changes and better torque in the low end when pulling away, could quite argue the opposite in fact...Smile
 
Quote but power is most useful in emergency situations
I seem to remember back when we were discussing speed limiters in cars that someone dismissed my counterpoint to having a speed limiter because it took away that power that is "useful in emergency situations" and were all in favour of having them and effectively taking away that option...Wink
Back to Top
767nutter View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot


Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Location: Norfolk, UK
Points: 1330
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 767nutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2009 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by In Kontrol In Kontrol wrote:

Originally posted by 767nutter 767nutter wrote:

MartinW, Magic Man, In Kontrol heres a nice little note about torque from the MG-Rover forums, this is based on all vehicle types.

http://google.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=188462

 
Thanks for that pointless thread about torque that I already know and wouldn't have spent 2 years at college learning about...Thumbs%20Down
 
Oh your welcome, nice to see manners about. I only put that down because you three were talking about torque and thought it would be useful. And sorry but Cars or Mechanics were not on your interest list so had no idea you studied tech at college.
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2009 at 9:12am
Quote
 
Best for driver’s who enjoy optimal performance and a smooth ride.
Define "optimal performance"? under which circumstances? As for "smooth ride", depends on the car. Modern diesels give as "smooth [a] ride" as their petrol counterpart and with longer time between gear changes and better torque in the low end when pulling away, could quite argue the opposite in fact...Smile
 
I think you've lost it I really do. I thought I had a problem with being argumentative but you take it to a whole new level.
 
Torque at low revs isn't relevant when you can change down in a petrol engine and access all of the petrol engines torque you like. Have you ever driven a manual transmission [petrol]? I'm sure you have, then you know that when you accelerate you can change down and increase revs to whatever you like 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000 revs, take your pick, therefore accessing all the torque from your petrol engine you like.
 
Why do you think Ferrari's, Lamborghini's Bugatti Veyrons, and all top super cars have petrol engines?
 
 
Quote
but power is most useful in emergency situations
I seem to remember back when we were discussing speed limiters in cars that someone dismissed my counterpoint to having a speed limiter because it took away that power that is "useful in emergency situations" and were all in favour of having them and effectively taking away that option...Wink
 

 

There’s a big difference in driving on the road where 'nobody' has a speed limiter and roads utilised by vehicles that 'all' have speed limiters.

 

Currently, there are no speed limiters, therefore overtaking manoeuvres are frequent, and often way above the speed limit during the passing manoeuvre. It was in that context, in today’s ‘no speed limiter’ environment, with a considerable variability in relative speeds, that I made that comment.

 

In a world where we all had speed limiters in our cars we would be hardly likely to attempt to overtake an old granny [Or Magic man] driving at 30, if we know we couldn’t go any faster. Power would be less relevant.

 

More importantly, You know as well as I do that the comment was made, not in regard to road safety, but in regard to the suggestion that a tuned car must be driven that way or the tuning was a waste of time, and that my comment was merely an example of why those that favor car tuning don’t subscribe to that point of view. And to illustrate that a tuned car does not have to be driven to the max all the time.

 

I don’t know whether extreme argumentativeness is an OCD thing Magic Man but it’s quite frankly bizarre.

 

And I thought I was argumentative. Confused

 
Back to Top
Magic Man View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Location: South Wales
Points: 5336
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2009 at 12:33pm
Ummm, ditto Big%20smile
 
Quote
Torque at low revs isn't relevant when you can change down in a petrol engine and access all of the petrol engines torque you like.
Except if you are pulling off from a stand still or are already going slow, can't change down from 1st - then you're only option is to rev real high...
 
Quote
when you pull away you can increase revs to whatever you like 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000 revs, take your pick, therefore accessing all the torque from your petrol engine you like.
 
Which is not doing the engine any good at such high revs - and you still won't get the same torque as a comparable diesel, two different types of engine. If you need high torque then you want it available at low speeds/revs and a diesel is better for that.
Quote
 
Why do you think Ferrari's, Lamborghini's Bugatti Veyrons, and all top super cars have very large petrol engines?
- there, fixed that for you Wink - Because they need the high revs.
 
Why do you think all vehicles that need huge amounts or torque, e.g. trains, tanks, trucks, ships etc. have diesel engines and not petrol engines? (forgetting those that have gas turbines)
 
There we are, all over...
 
Quote And I thought I was argumentative
If you post again it proves you are... and a big girl as well.Thumbs%20Up 
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2009 at 12:45pm

If you post again it proves you are... and a big girl as well.

 

And you post that after the nonsense that preceded it knowing it would incite me to respond.

 

Sorry magic man but I think you are a bit of a...

 

I've lost all respect for you.

 

Except if you are pulling off from a stand still or are already going slow, can't change down from 1st - then you're only option is to rev real high...

 

Huh! Exactly, rev higher and access all the torque you like. Try sticking your foot on the accelerator from a standstill to perhaps 6000 RPM! There's that much torque your tyre rubber will be left on the ground and the neighborhood will be in a shroud of acrid smoke.

 
Requiring high torque from a standstill is an infrequent requirement anyway in terms of engine wear. Unless you are a maniac.

 

Why do you think all vehicles that need huge amounts or torque, e.g. trains, tanks, trucks, ships etc. have diesel engines and not petrol engines? (forgetting those that have gas turbines)

 

Because they pull a heavy load, they don’t accelerate rapidly.

 

Your objective is to obviously win points, argue for competitive reasons, to win an argument, dragging up past comments regrading speed limiters, rather than to determine the truth.

 

Childish! I thought better of you.

Back to Top
Martyn View Drop Down
Just Flight Staff
Just Flight Staff
Avatar
Development Manager

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Huntingdon, UK
Points: 7615
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2009 at 12:58pm
SleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepySleepy
Martyn
Just Flight Ltd
Back to Top
767nutter View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot


Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Location: Norfolk, UK
Points: 1330
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 767nutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2009 at 2:26pm
Which is not doing the engine any good at such high revs - and you still won't get the same torque as a comparable diesel, two different types of engine. If you need high torque then you want it available at low speeds/revs and a diesel is better for that.
 
Petrol engines can be revved upto 6k as much as they like ( as long as the engine is big enough and upto temp as the thermal shocks sent through can damage the engine  ) mine can be revved upto 6k easily enough as the cut off point do not come in until about 7.2k while red line is 6.8k.
 
Diesels are not always better, the torque on my dads 1.9tdi drops after about 4.8k considerably.
 
The post about torque in the mg-rover forums say that if you had a diesel and petrol, same engine size, gearbox, etc the diesel will win a drag race but only by a split second. so really not much difference.
Back to Top
Hot_Charlie View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot


Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Points: 1839
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hot_Charlie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2009 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:


Why do you think Ferrari's, Lamborghini's Bugatti Veyrons, and all top super cars have petrol engines?


Because they're driven by petrolheads. Dieselheads doesn't have the same ring.

PS. Tell Audi that... R10TDi, Le Mans winner? R15TDi, possible Le Mans winner? They've also made a R8 TDi Le Mans, which may go into production (although would upset aforementioned petrolheads!) .
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2009 at 4:23pm
I could comment on that Hotty, but Vin Diesel would be back. Disapprove
 
We should all drive Toyota Aygo's. Plenty of power for normal driving from it's super economical [61mpg] 998cc engine with variable valve timing, plus low insurance and dirt cheap tax. [£35 per year]
 
Not far off the same 0-60 time as my old [now crushed] 1.6 16v Escort. And the same as the 1.3 Fiesta I drive now, which is perfectly adequate.
 
I'd consider one if I were buying new.
 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down