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Darling, I can't re-write (the) budget

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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Apr 2008 at 8:47pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7357085.stm

Ouch

What he actually means is "I can't stand to lose £7.4 Billion in tax payers money". WHY NOT?

Year on year we pay more tax. Year on year there is less public spending. Logic says that means we have more spare cash lying around. Just where the hell is it going???

They say this affects poor and low paid workers, but actually, EVERYONE is affected!

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aniceguy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aniceguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Apr 2008 at 4:52pm
What got me on this is, isn't it his responsibility to do the budget? Can't change it? Why not, it's your job!
 
Silly man.
 
I voted Conservative for local elections.
 
Talking of elections when will they ever hold a general election?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 12:50am
Quote Can't change it? Why not, it's your job!

It's political speak for "won't change it". I say if he can't re-instate it this year, re-instate it at the next Budget (e.g. 2009-2010). Problem solved! The tax credit system is a farce. For a start it is opt-in, so you have to know to apply!!!!! I say reduce taxes, so it isn't required.

Quote Talking of elections when will they ever hold a general election?

Next year hopefully, but who knows? They've already postponed one because they thought they'd lose - why not another?

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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 8:20am

As someone who’s filling in a humongous child tax credit form at the moment, plus the one that checks that they paid you the right amount last time [too much and they take it back] I would agree with that entirely Vulcan.

 

The bureaucracy involved costs the tax payer a fortune, you should see all the paper work I have.

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aniceguy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aniceguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 9:38am
And now they talk of this bank "fix" being at the cost of the tax payer ... what is it coming to?
 
I'm in same boat, IR are wanting some money off me (think they asked for £115) which had to be paid back within 5 years of receiving the letter. Only problem being that, for the past few years I've been a full time student. Means digging out my P60 and P45's to get them shoved right back in their seats.
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Martyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 9:54am
Quote And now they talk of this bank "fix" being at the cost of the tax payer ... what is it coming to?


I would prefer to pay taxes towards assisting banks, rather than seeing our economy collapse and all the misery that comes with that Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 11:30am
The tax payer can't afford to keep bailing out banks. If the government loses money - a bank collapsing will be the least of your worries!

So far ~£150 Billion is resting on it.

They should let the banks take the risk. If they collapse because of it - well - they should have been more careful. Yes people in the street lose their money if it happens, but it needs to happen in order for the banking system to stop being so cavalier. They've brought this problem on themselves to begin with, by lending to those who can't repay.

Whilst we're busy propping up the banks, and writing blank cheques, the banks are going to think they acn continue doing what they're doing as the good ol' Government will bail them out if they get stuck.

For the duration the Government are backing banks, any profit the banks make should go directly to repaying the Government (that includes not paying any dividends to the shareholders etc..!).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aniceguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 12:02pm
With you on that one. They should take the risks.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 12:26pm
Quote The tax payer can't afford to keep bailing out banks. If the government loses money - a bank collapsing will be the least of your worries!
It's not 'a' bank collapsing though it's the entire banking system that's under strain, due to the cavalier attitude of the banks in regard to lending yes, but also due to the state of the world banking climate also.
 
They did bring it on themselves to a considerable degree, and it is also related to the current world events, but to allow the UK banking system to falter would be a bit daft, whether it's their fault or not.
 
it's not like Northern Rock, not a single organisation under threat.
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Martyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 12:42pm
Ever played the game 'Jenga'? A collapse of one bank major bank would have a similar effect to when you remove a supporting brick in Jenga. Not pretty and certainly worse for the taxpayer

Governments don't just bail out companies on a whim, unfortunately I think there are a lot of people that underestimate the government. Yes they may make mistakes(who doesn't?) but they aren't all idiots. The number of 'arm-chair experts' combined with the media constantly finding something to criticize the government for is leading to a nation full of extremely irritating wingers(present company accepted of course). Also with all this talk of banks/house prices, does anyone even remember about those two little wars we have going on? Ermm Maybe if they were sorted out, the global economy might be a tad more stable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 12:53pm
How do the two little wars effect house prices then MartYn?
 
How would sorting out the wars stabilise the economy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 12:56pm
Quote with the media constantly finding something to criticize the government for is leading to a nation full of extremely irritating wingers


Couldn't agree with you more, Martyn!

I had an extremely tedious meal with some people at the weekend who were properly caught up in the wave of cynicism that has swept the country. I'm convinced its because we haven't changed government in so long that some sort of syndrome has developed where people are just bored with politics and MPs etc can do no right.
They were on again about making all MPs live in a big block of flats in London and complaining about their pay rise. How are we ever going to attract the best people to the job if we pay peanuts and make them live in a Gulag. If you've just graduated from Eton why would you choose politics with its rubbish money and the fact that if you fancy having an affair its going to end up in the paper and cost you your job (why they have to resign is totally beyond me. Who cares in the slightest if somebody likes frequenting swingers parties. Not illegal and what they get up to behind closed doors is there business)

The decision to keep the banks afloat wouldn't have been taken on the basis that Alistair Darling came up with the idea and decided to do it. It would have been advised by experts in the field of economics who know a lot more about the intricacies of economics than anyone here does. Perhaps, for once, we should give the experts the benefit of the doubt.
Certainly as somebody who wants to buy his first house in the reasonably near future, I would hope the mortgage lending business is given every chance to thrive. Already, every single provided has withdrawn its 100% mortgage which will already make it far harder for first time buyers to get into the market

Quote How would sorting out the wars stabilise the economy?


Well, America wouldn't be quite so short of cash would they Wink Money well spent (but that's another matter Ouch)
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 1:01pm
So what is the mechanism by which 'America not being short of cash', improves our housing market? Blame the US sub-prime mortgages then do you?
 
Isn't it more to do with bad debt provisions in the US being 20% higher.
 
You didn't vote labour last time did you by any chance? Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 1:11pm
I'm no economist but wouldn't it be something like the US economy wouldn't be in so much trouble if they were not haemorrhaging billions and billions every year, therefore banks wouldn't be losing so much money due to their interests in the US market and then wouldn't have to be tightening up on their lending.
Could be talking total rubbish though Thumbs%20Up

Last time around I didn't vote for either big party due to neither of them doing enough for my vote and went the third way, even though i knew it was a wasted vote to some degree. Voted Labour the time before that but was edging the other way before Michael Howard started trying to steal votes off the BNP and completely put me off the Conservatives . In fact I was pretty disgusted by it/him/them as I don't think it was even what he personally believed in, they just knew that their were votes to be gained by doing so.
I just can't vote for a party so in tune with the backwards thinking Daily (Hate) Mail.
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Martyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 1:15pm
Quote if they were not haemorrhaging billions and billions every year


Apparently the Iraq war will cost the U.S in excess of $1 Trillion Wacko
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Rich View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 1:19pm
They could have probably bought up all the oil in Iraq and shipped it all back to the US for that and saved themselves all the bother of a fight! Sleepy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2008 at 1:36pm
The mortgage issues here, are because the banks have lost confidence in the US sub-prime mortgages and are therefore unwilling to invest in mortgages. Whether the sub- prime shortfall is related to the war I have no idea, but I can't see how US citizens defaulting on their mortgages would be because of the war.
 
I'm not an economist either, in fact i haven't a clue what I'm on about. Cry
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