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Mediums, psychics and healers

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Martyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mediums, psychics and healers
    Posted: 18 Apr 2008 at 12:12pm
Quite an interesting proposal. Are psychics telling the truth, are they con artists or just plain loony? Difficult question to answer, I can't imagine this proposed law will be an easy one to enforce!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7354089.stm

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A change in the law could mean mediums, psychics and healers face prosecution if they cannot justify their claims. Spiritualists are delivering a mass petition to Downing Street and complaining that a genuine religion is being discriminated against.

    Madame Sosostris, famous clairvoyant,
    Had a bad cold, nevertheless
    Is known to be the wisest woman in Europe,
    With a wicked pack of cards.

Whether it's TS Eliot or Shirley Ghostman, the world of the medium has been gently drizzled with ridicule for some decades.

But now psychics, healers and spiritualists fear a new threat. Not gentle ribbing, but the long arm of the law.

Parliament is about to debate measures that will see all forms of paid-for paranormal activities fall under the new Consumer Protection Regulations. As well as tackling a raft of more mundane commercial sharp practice, these regulations will also replace the Fraudulent Mediums Act 1951.

And some mediums are not happy. Under the old legislation, it had to be proven that any accused psychic was setting out to commit a fraud. The first case was a man in 1952 on a charge that he did in "purporting to act as a spiritualistic medium, unlawfully use a certain fraudulent device, namely, a length of cheesecloth". He was acquitted, setting a pattern for the last 50 years of very few prosecutions.

Under the new laws, some mediums feel they will be obliged to prove what they do. And when you're in the business of contacting spirits in the afterlife, that's not easy.

At Battersea Spiritualist Church, the new laws mean visiting medium Bill Rae is peppering his session of clairvoyance with disclaimers along the lines of "this is not science" and "this is just an experiment".

Spirit world

The clairvoyancy session is like a game of psychic battleships. Rae fires off little salvos. Most shots miss, but many hit, generating wonder in the congregation.

He speaks to a man a few rows back. Rae, who receives nothing more than expenses for these sessions, has seen a man in the "spirit world". He thinks it might be the subject's father. The man nods and Rae continues.


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Rich View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2008 at 12:18pm
Personally I think that fortune tellers (Blackpool pier and the like) are either suffering from some sort of mental health related delusion or simply taking part in a criminal deception.
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Magic Man View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2008 at 12:52pm

I'm open minded on this but accept that it's obviously a field open to abuse.

A friend of my wife visited a 'psychic' probably about a year ago now and had been to see him previously. On her last visit the guy passed on a message to her from her husbands deceased father telling her that he was glad that they'd put the photo up.

They'd only recently moved to a new house and a framed photo of her husbands father had been sat against a wall for several weeks. They'd finally only put it on the wall a few days before the visit.

There was also other things said to her that she assured my wife nobody else would know or would even guess at.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2008 at 1:02pm

Magic... people that visit these psychics tend to remember the bits that come true and ignore the 90% that doesn’t. You can guarantee that if they say someone was ‘glad they'd put the photo up’, it will apply to someone sometime. I bet there was plenty of other stuff that was way off the mark. And probably one or two guesses that hit the mark.

 
The picture thing applies to many! That's how they do it, that's how it works.

 

I'm not saying that there aren't individuals that have the capability, just that there's no real evidence and that the majority are simply conning money out of people. 

 

The Gantzfeld experiment [telepathy/thought projection] is showing results slightly above chance though.

 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2008 at 2:20pm
It only becomes interesting if there is a greater than chance possibility of it being guessed correctly.

I think it is right that they are subjected to the same laws as any other business. Just because they're dealing with the spiritual shouldn't mean they're exempt!

Another thing: how are they classed as a "religion"? Are they saying that anything spiritual is now religious?

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Flapper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2008 at 3:34pm
I don't think Just flight is the place for me anymore. Shame I've spent hundreds on the products. Thumbs%20Down
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2008 at 4:52pm
Flappy that's just plain silly!
 
Wherever you go there will be others with opposing views. I know these things are important to you but your beliefs should be strong enough not to feel threatened by the views of others.
 
As I said above...  'I'm not saying that there aren't individuals that have the capability.' I think you'll find that there are many on the forum that are open minded about such things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2008 at 5:43pm
Old Flapper, this is a public forum for general "chit-chat" that just happens to be hosted by Just Flight. How does that represent JF in any way?
 
I think you're far too worried about somebody being offended. Most people are very open-minded, and are willing to accept criticism; they're totally happy with what they believe in and that's all that counts to them in the end. Smile
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Flapper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2008 at 8:10pm
I'm not trying to be "plain silly" Martin, I just get so uptight when I see these matters up for disection at the whim of the hosts. It's been one of those days, my wife has a cluster of 20 or so tumours appeared on her neck, which need to be removed on 28th, followed by weeks of radio therapy etc. I'm banging my head against a brick wall regarding the car accident in January, The guy who hit me is refusing to fill out his statement, meaning I can't get a car to take the wife (who's agoraphobic since another car crash in 1989) to hospital at all easily... Today I need my faith. Today I don't want it questioned... Yet I find I'm explaining myself again. Apologies to Just Flight accordingly.
For what it's worth I welcome the fraudulent mediums act.
I just hate these topics.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2008 at 10:22pm
Sorry to hear of your troubles.
 
But if you are in a vulnerable state at the moment, then upon reading the topic title, it's probably best not to contribute or even read the posts.
 
If I see a topic that irritates me or one I hate [many do] I refrain from clicking my mouse.
 
There's no whim of the hosts involved, any topic that doesn't contravene the rules is allowed.
 
You don't have to explain yourself regarding your faith just as I don't have to explain my beliefs if I don't want to. The silly bit is threatening to leave the form and blaming just Flight.
 
Having had a mother and father with the same condition, I sincerely wish your wife the best. You're a decent member of the form, one I have a lot of time for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2008 at 7:18am
I dont think the church and their spiritialist mediums will be too worried about this as they work for free. I think this law is obv to be aimed at hopefully the dodgy £1.50 a min numbers you see at the back of the magazines.

I for one and quite convinced some people can indeed have some form of comunication but to what extent and why i havnt a clue..and yes martin i know there is no proof! but i think some things arnt ment to be known Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flightboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2008 at 7:22am
Originally posted by Flightboy Flightboy wrote:

I dont think the church and their spiritialist mediums will be too worried about this as they work for free. I think this law is obv to be aimed at hopefully the dodgy £1.50 a min numbers you see at the back of the magazines.

I for one and quite convinced some people can indeed have some form of comunication but to what extent and why i havnt a clue..and yes martin i know there is no proof! but i think some things arnt ment to be known Smile

Flightboy


Ah and there you go at the bootom of the article...

The Office of Fair Trading says enforcement of the new regulations will not target sessions like this or churches, instead being more likely to be used against foreign mass mailshot fraudsters extracting large sums of money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2008 at 8:13am
Sorry to hear of your situation. Shocked  I hope your wife recovers OK!

Don't leave the forum! As Martin said - no offense is intended. My personal thoughts on it are how can we progress if we don't discuss these things? That is why I discuss them. I'm not religious, I don't believe in the idea of a "creator" for reasons I've mentioned before etc.. but I do respect the views of others (something that is sadly lacking in some sections of society). Prove me wrong on my theories! Thumbs%20Up  Stranger things have happened (like Black Holes that are now acknowledged to evaporate and not simply grow infinitely larger for example, even if the 'how' is still an open question).

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Flapper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2008 at 7:00pm
Cheers Vulcan!
Can't make it sit right in my mind, re creator either, but I can't claim to know - I was only young at the time.
The tumours are clustered around the main facial nerve and will likely cause permanent damage to it. Palsy..


the other pic won't attach so here's the link.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24833941@N08/2425092627/
Big bugger ain't it? Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2008 at 7:05pm
Bloody hell!!! Cry

Best regards,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2008 at 7:13pm
How long had they been there John?
 
My mother and father suffered from the same condition.
 
Hope the outcome is favourable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2008 at 8:22pm
John,  I'm very sad to read down this post.  Things like this in life put many things into perspective.  All the luck in the world for you and your wife on the 28th.

Kindest regards,
Mark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Flapper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2008 at 2:07pm
Thanks chaps. Just have to see how it goes really, it has been growing there a long time, tha agoraphobia, meaning she was unable to get it sorted out. Bit of a catch 22. How did your parents fare Martin? Hope they were ok.
Best regards.
John.
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2008 at 7:15pm

It wasn't the same condition Flappy, I meant cancer in general. My father had pancreatic cancer and my mother breast cancer. Pancreatic cancer is usually fatal and it was in this case. My mother’s breast was removed and she lived for many years afterwards. However, in those days the treatments for breast cancer were not as good as today and she eventually succumb to bone cancer, secondary to the breast cancer. My mother was a wonderful caring woman, I miss her greatly, it's so sad that she only new Daniel from a few months old and never met Katy. She would have loved them both and they her.

 

The strides they have made in recent years are impressive, I'm confident your wife will fare well flappy. The 10% believer in me will be praying for such.

 
As an OCD sufferer, I understand the power of disorders like agoraphobia.
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