Just Flight Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Just Flight Products > F-Lite
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - DC10 HD Fixes and Mods
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

DC10 HD Fixes and Mods

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Mike Hart View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Australia
Points: 80
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mike Hart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: DC10 HD Fixes and Mods
    Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 1:02pm
I have done a lot of work on this aeroplane to get it sorted out in the absence of CLS doing anything. 

Key points:
Now has a proper fully functional Honeywell FMC both in the VC and as a pop up. This will require users to download the Freeware Honeywell gauge to make this happen. 
Capacity to add in Captain Sim Wx Radar also included. 
GPWS added. 
Fuel loads, quantities and tanks corrected, all fuel gauges now working and are accurate. 
Aircraft now has correct empty and max weight and reference speeds. Note - notes and a VREF chart will be included to allow proper use of the speed bugs on the ASI and to load the aircraft accordingly, it is limited once full pax are on board and can not carry much other payload just like the real thing. 
A lot more or additional switches and warning lights in the VC, pilot, overhead and FE station are now operative and selectable.   
Aircraft performance and cruise speeds have been fixed and are now accurate.
Correct reference speeds and engine power sorted. 
Now fly's like a real DC-10. 

Where to upload to not sure yet will advise once a bit of tidying up is done and package is prepared. 


Back to Top
Jocko Flocko View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 22 May 2013
Location: Wasaga Beach
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jocko Flocko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2018 at 4:23am
Outstanding work Mike. I just came in the forum to check and see if there was a fix for switch sounds being absent in the virtual cockpit and saw your post. If you have a pack ready could you PM me with a link? I'll send you a message with my email.
Back to Top
TheWestGuy View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff
Avatar

Joined: 13 Apr 2018
Location: DnNTK
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TheWestGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2018 at 4:48pm
I would love to see this mod also!
Back to Top
Mike Hart View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Australia
Points: 80
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mike Hart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2018 at 10:26am
I have uploaded the temporary fixes as a small package to SimOuthouse in FSX other. I have had not meaningful response from CLS at all. Anyway only for the 30 and 40 series DC-10. Works for me. Hope this helps.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?catid=4

Back to Top
KrisJ View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Location: Poland
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2018 at 4:15pm
Mike, quick question: your total tanks capacity is 241,073 lbs. Thats fine (although i am using 260,032 lbs for my 590k Dc1030 version). But how did you come with central tank having lower capacity than wing ones and the auxilary being only capable of 13,179 lbs?

I am pretty sure aux is the biggest one, then central and then wing ones.


Back to Top
Jocko Flocko View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 22 May 2013
Location: Wasaga Beach
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jocko Flocko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2018 at 4:42pm
Hey thanks Mike, it's greatly appreciated!

I've been using the 'Integrated Sim Avionics (ISG1)' Smiths FMS gauge as the FMS in the DC10-HD and it's been working great, especially when the ISG1 gauges support Navigraph Cycles, it makes it a bit more "realistic" than using the Flight1 GTN750, something that actually does work perfectly fine considering the size, weight, bank angle, etc of the aircraft.

Sorry to hear you didn't have much luck with CLS, not all developers can be as supportive and courteous as the devs over at A2A. ;)

Cheers
Andrew
Back to Top
Mike Hart View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Australia
Points: 80
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mike Hart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 7:05am
The tank data was hard to come by and as usual nailing it down via the internet was difficult. I eventually found a technical document by Boeing who took over McDonnell Douglas and so have to keep and make this data available. So the data came from Boeing technical data sheets on the DC-10. 
Back to Top
Mike Hart View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Australia
Points: 80
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mike Hart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 7:17am
Sorry cannot edit. Yes the tank volumes were a surprise. But the data sheets were consistent across the range for the various types. Basically the wings had more one of the central tanks was larger and the auxilliary was smaller but there were two additional tanks located in the wings near the wing root which were not modelled by CLS so to keep the Weight and Balance accurate I added it to the wing tank capacity. But your right is less than what you thought and I thought as well. That is not to say that some operators may have had additional capacity added but generally they kept them as they were supplied. 
Back to Top
KrisJ View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Location: Poland
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2018 at 8:42pm
Mike, first of all thank you for  you efffort. The more people in the community do things to have as good as possilbe Dc-10 in the sim the better.

With the tanks i think you made it wrong. Here is a 590k version fuel capacity as per official Dc-10 family FAA certification document:
Main No. 1. 40,203
Main No. 2. 64,969
Main No. 3. 40,203
Center Wing Auxiliary 97,409

This gives following aircraft.cfg entry:

[fuel] //total:54770 gal
Center1=    -0.82,   0.00,  -1.50, 10372, 1000 //Tank 2
Center2=    1.48,  0.00, 4.50, 15543, 1000 //Center
LeftMain=   -17.20, -47.00,  4.50,  6448, 1000 //tank 1
RightMain=  -17.20,  47.00,  4.50,  6448, 1000 //tank 3

Now, the "additional tank in the wing" you refer to is not an additional tank in fact but a compartment. Each Wing tank (Main 1 & 3) is made of two compartments - inner and outer but the gaugue reads total of both compartments and the official data in documents like the above one consider Main Tanks 1 & 3 as sets of two compartments each.

The Aux tank is the biggest. Acctually this  is an exact quote from the Lufthansa Dc-10-30 video on YT where FE explains that. We can trust him :)

I suggest you try my settings. BTW, i have some comments re power settings of your made which I will give tomorrow. Also I can tell you how to modify your JF/CLS Dc-10-30 so it flies by the R/W numbers.
Back to Top
KrisJ View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Location: Poland
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 8:45am
One more comment re fuel system in CLS Dc-10. The tanks setup i provided above is correct however CLS did not properly (or at all) model fuel transfer mechanism. Normally one would transfer fuel from Aux tank to main ones but in CLS model you cannot do it. As a result in very long flights (when you need more fuel in Aux then you have on wing ones) you will end up flight with main ones dry and fuel remaining only in Aux. This makes the plane bit havy on tail on landing.
Back to Top
Mike Hart View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Australia
Points: 80
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Hart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 10:45am
Kris J 

This is from the Boeing Data Sheet DAC-67803A January 1991 (Revised April 2004) for the following types (DC10, 30,30CF, 40 and 40CF):

Total Usable Capacity: 36,622 US Gallons

6090 US Gallons each Wing Tank 1 and 3 each
9664 US Gallons Number 2 tank
12,731 US Gallons CTR Wing  Aux Tank
1967 US Gallons under wing Aux Tank

All up that equals 36542 US Gallons

by my reading that gives
two wing tanks 1 3
one number 2 tank
one centre wing aux tank
and one under wing aux tank

So I am not sure which is which now, the FAA data should be correct, and so should the Lufthansa data
but as you can see from above thats how I ended up with what I used. 

Anyway happy to check this out and any other changes you might suggest. 





Back to Top
KrisJ View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Location: Poland
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 5:48pm
Now it looks much better, pretty much like 1972 Dc10-30 FAA certification, which i  bring below. And as you can see the main wing ones (1 & 3) are smaller then main center (3) and center aux is the biggest. The 1967 US Gallons under wing Aux Tank you have is probably a modification for particular serial numbers. Here is FAA:

Fuel Tank Capacity (pounds)
Usable Usable 25 Arm
Location Structural (6.7 lb./gal.) (6.7 lb./gal.) (inches)
Main No. 1. 43,202 40,203 40,704 1492.6
Main No. 2. 69,495 64,969 65,438 1296.0
Main No. 3. 43,202 40,203 40,704 1492.6
Center Wing Auxiliary 104,141 97,409 98,111 1266.1

In aircfraft cfg here is correct entry for your numbers:
Center1=    -0.82,   0.00,  -1.50, 9664, 1000 //Tank 2
Center2=    1.48,  0.00, 4.50, 14698, 1000 //Center
LeftMain=   -17.20, -47.00,  4.50,  6090, 1000 //tank 1
RightMain=  -17.20,  47.00,  4.50,  6090, 1000 //tank 3

Re Center2 - i merged the center aux capacity and the under wing aux hence 14,698 gal.
Back to Top
KrisJ View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Location: Poland
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2018 at 10:51am
Now, with regards to aircraft performance.

The Dc-10-30 has following range of reduced thrust takeoff N1 settings:
Min: 89,7 for -40C OAT and +20C Assumed Temp.
Max: 115,8 for +20C OAT and +20C Assumed Temp.

I tried your mod. For the flight i made based on acctual conditions i needed 106,2 N1. However i was only able to achive ~103 N1 with throthe full forward.

There is a very simple way to have proper performance on CLS Dc-10-30. Simply search for SGA/FFX model in the web and take the .air file from it. The SGA Team made incredible work achiving their model flying close to the Real World numbers. They worked with R/W DC10/KC10 drivers, one of them active on flight simming forums.

Try it. If you have some problems with the flight dynamics let me know and i can share you my aircraft.cfg settings.
Back to Top
Mike Hart View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Australia
Points: 80
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Hart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 7:54am
Kris J Thanks for that, good what a couple of minds on the problems can do. I will do the changes re the fuel tanks, and as they apply across the range, they all should be the same except for the DC10-10.

The turbine numbers and performance was a real problem, after countless hours amending this changing that, trying an earlier version air file and Ruths, I came to the conclusion that there were differences built into this one that I could not fix, so the mods were a compromise. 

The engine data modelling is completely incorrect for the CLS HD version and the problem lies in the tables used by the MS ESP engine to do its thing. This by the way is not an uncommon problem across all jet aircraft in FSX because while the piston engines are done very well there are issues with thrust and altitude and thrust and temperature that are not captured or responded to properly in FSX. When I read an original flight test report for the DC-10 it was even more apparent how badly this bird performed, the DC-10 had very good power all the way up to FL's, it actually could reach M0.92 in the cruise (at light weights) so to have a model basically die at about F180 and above was simply ridiculous. 

I will give that air file a go see what transpires or expires. LOL. I will get back to you when I have done that. 

Thanks for the input and advice appreciated. 
Back to Top
Mike Hart View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Australia
Points: 80
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Hart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 9:53am
Kris J - Tried the air file, works fine as far as I am concerned and does give much better N readings and most of all consistent power output. Did FFX/SGA do the DC-10-40 I saw references to it with the original release but have not found the packaged versions which had both, picked up the 30 series with a repaint version on FlightSim. 

Still not happy with the fuel situation but I think it may be a guage issue not a config problem anyway will worry about that a bit later. 


Back to Top
KrisJ View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Location: Poland
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 4:01pm
Screenshot from my today KMEM-PANC  FX5132 flight:

Back to Top
KrisJ View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Location: Poland
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2018 at 6:48pm
I am not sure but i think SGA did dash 40 only up to FS2004. I did not test it as i dont want to risk launching FS9 native model in P3D.

Re fuel: can you send me gauges screenshot of your fully loaded tanks? Will see whats wrong.
Back to Top
Mike Hart View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew
Avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Location: Australia
Points: 80
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Hart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2018 at 6:29am
KrisJ - nice shot I see you have put in the INS. I have it in various types but prefer the FMC based on GPS. The other thing that caught my eye was the night panel lighting, seems very different in some aspects to mine particular the glareshield autopilot panel. I use the Capt Sim Wx Radar but have not found a spot to fit it into the VC (I don't think there is one).

Will get a screenshot of the tank gauges as soon as I can. 

Oh and I found a SGA airfile for the DC-10-40 there was an update or mod floating about here is the zip file reference: "sga1040.zip" it was at flyaway simulation. It actually did a lot of mods to the SGA version for MSFS2004 but works fine for me I only wanted the airfile.


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down