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nose heavy on landing

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pilot100 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 5:10am
i noticed that both the arrow 3 and turbo both bang down the nose on landing no matter how accurate on speed etc. this is not what the real aircraft does - yes the arrow is a little heavy nose wise but you can still hold the nose off quite easily but i find the just flight implementation  does not allow this. I thought it was just me but interestingly I tried the new cessna 152 demo and it does the same, which is definitley not what the vreal aircaft does, so I think there is an issue here. btw I do not have any issues with other non just flight aircraft.

Brian
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pilot100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pilot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2018 at 5:21am
ok so I replaced the .Air file with one from an old version of an Arrow from another manufacturer and guess what?   landing with nose wheel  off without the great thump so I think jf needs a slight mod here. having said that everything else about the jf arrow is pretty much first rate..... of course only my opinion and I have been wrong before.
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jchpa32 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jchpa32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2018 at 7:16am
Brian, I agree. The pitch in this model is much too heavy. It might be more accurate in the T-tail, and I have read and heard it is, but certainly not in the straight tail (I have several hundred RW hours in PA-28 and -32 straight tails, so I can speak to this a bit). I have always been able to hold the Archers and Warriors nose high in the flare and keep the nose gear off as long as I liked, and even in the Six and the Saratoga, I could keep that long heavy nose up in the flare.
In my experience, the stabilator never required much force on the yoke to control pitch accurately and easily.
Even the two T-tails I have flown, the Tomahawk and the Beech Duchess, presented no particular problems.

JCH
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Jonesyg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonesyg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2018 at 4:14pm
Is there any news on this issue as yet? 
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2018 at 10:57pm
Not as yet - I currently have six aircraft in various stages of FDE build, three of those are brand-new in-house aircraft, two are new variants of previous aircraft (one requiring a new engine, the other a sizeable amount of work) and the third is a joint JF/AH product.

In terms of where I am with them, the latter three are not far off complete bar anything that crops up in testing. The in-house aircraft need a lot of time, though - the initial PA28 Arrow took about eight months around my day job and family, and as has been commented further up this thread the general feel of the aircraft is okay. I would far rather accept this as a problem that needs fixing down the line when I can dedicate a chunk of time to it and get it right than try and bodge up a quick (sub-standard?) fix now and at the same time detract from the time I have to work on the upcoming in-house releases.

I realise that may not be exactly the answer you are looking for, but I have to accept that there is a business element to this and much as I'd love to create a fix right now it is most likely going to be something I fit in when there is a break in development (they do occur - this time last year I was asking what's next - I kind of regret that, now I'm swampedLOL) It will, however, be a priority when that next lull occurs.

Cheers,
Paul.


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Jonesyg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonesyg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2018 at 8:28am
Thanks for your response, happy to hear it will eventually be fixed, but for now it will have to sit in the hanger and fly my less visually appealing PA28 :( . Cheers  
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pilot100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pilot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 12:22am
I hear what you say, but without getting into flame wars etc can I make a customer oriented response?
It is all well in focusing on new products but what you have to ask , as a customer, is what guarantee do I have that the new stuff won't also be flawed (if I can use that word without being petty), consequently will I buy a new product? It comes down to reputation and confidence in a vendor. In all honesty my confidence in Just Flight products has been impacted, I suspect others might feel the same.

FWIW

Brian 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ItchyEye33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 1:07am
I would have to agree with Brian on this one. From a customer perspective, we really don't want to hear that the product we choose to purchase, which has issues, will be put on the back burner due to new development. Quality should be paramount with each product that will definitely reward future return customers.

Thank you,
Scott
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2018 at 10:35am
The initial PA28 Arrow was released in February 2017, the Turbos in May 2017. On initial release of the PA28, there was a reasonable amount of adjustment made and a couple of SPs released based on a huge amount of feedback generated by the community and several high-houred PA28 pilots and a couple of owners joined in the testing and gave a lot of direction and input  At no point during that period was the nose-heavy issue mentioned (had it been, it would have probably been high on the list to fix). In fact, it hasn't been mentioned anywhere that I can see (including other forums, reviews etc) until 22nd June 2018 - over a year after release. I've seen the comments and acknowledged that there appears to be a problem. However, I am not " putting it on the back burner due to new development". The product was considered finished because it was accepted by the large number of PA28 pilots on the testing team after the SPs were produced and all adjustments based on the feedback had been made. At that point, I have to move my priority to the next project whilst accepting that further down the line I may have to fit in something else which crops up. If we don't have a point where we can say "that's finished", we'd never move on from anything and would probably still be working on the Canberra!

Brian, you have no guarantee whatsoever that "the new stuff won't also be flawed", that's the nature of flight dynamics and individuals' control setups, realism settings and differences within the sim. Flight Dynamics are not like model building, where a length is a length no matter what you do; so much of it is subjective and I have seen two pilots of the same real world aircraft arguing over a specific point in the handling. More than once, I might addLOL All I can do in that situation is make a judgement call on which way to go. What you DO have is the fact that I'm discussing this with you on the forum with the aim of finding the problem and creating a fix, you have the fact that Just Flight already have a good reputation for customer service and if you look back over the various threads for these aircraft you will see a large amount of interaction. At the end of the day, if it's really unflyable and doesn't get fixed you have the refund option. However, I'm hoping the latter isn't necessary!

Cheers,
Paul.
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pilot100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pilot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2018 at 5:21am
Hi Paul,
No issue with anything you say, nope, don't want my money back, the Arrow is a great implementation ( in fact all this debate is really a backhanded compliment because the model is so good it only takes a tweek to make perfect!).

Anyway suggest we let it drop there,  unless you have anything further. 
look forward to an update as and when.....Hug


thanks,

Brian 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marleymoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 6:32am
I just got the Warrior 2 for X-Plane. I also have this nose heavy problem on landing. I fly the Warrior 2 for real, and there is never any problem pulling the nose and riding the stall horn. Yes, significant yoke pull is required, but the yoke force remains moderate and the plane never loses pitch authority before stalling (really loud stall horn).

Could it be that something in X-Plane changed after release?
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pilot100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pilot100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 7:03am
subject has been done to death, in essence my own feeling is that the arrow is a little heavy on landing compared to the real aircraft I can't answer forv the warrier.


Brian
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