Just Flight Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Just Flight Products > C152
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - C152 - Initial impressions from a real C152 pilot
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

C152 - Initial impressions from a real C152 pilot

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
detheridge02 View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff
Avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Points: 30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote detheridge02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: C152 - Initial impressions from a real C152 pilot
    Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 4:36pm
What you get
8 liveries
Paint kit
Manual which covers all the systems in good depth. Not as in-depth as A2A's documentation but sufficient to get you flying. 
Support for the Flight1 GTN and GNS series GPS units, switchable between the GNS430, GNS 530 and the steam driven radios loathed by flight school students (if you can hear through them you have a good unit!) in sim. Switching between the GTN and GNS does require a reload of the aircraft and the use of the supplied panel switcher.

Exterior
The exterior model looks like a 152 and the liveries have been well applied. I especially like the beat up look, flight school 152's aren't pretty!
All the lights and control surfaces function as they should although from outside the aircraft you can't hear any creaks and moans when you move the control surfaces. Aluminium on aluminium has a certain sound to it!

Interior
The interior is a little new looking for a 152, I'd have expected to see some more scuffs, scratches and missing trim (maybe I've been in too many 152s!). The cockpit is well presented and everything works as expected. All the instruments and switches are where you would expect them and are easy to setup with a Saitek switch panel (I'll share the profile - just need to get the Magneto switch working!). Like the real aircraft the cockpit is functional. The sim version doesn't quite convey how small the cockpit is in the real aircraft. You get to know your instructor or passenger very well!

Flight dynamics
This is where the problems started for me, again probably due to flying the real aircraft. In my mind the developers missed a few key traits of the 152 that every student learns from the minute they first takeoff.
Firstly the aircraft is sensitive to the flaps. One notch of flaps rapidly raises the nose requiring a good dose of down elevator trim. Flaps stage 2 raises the nose further (not as much as stage 1). Only in stage 3 does the nose drop due to the substantial drag of 30' of flaps. Note to developers, the sound for the flaps seems about right but the animation of the surfaces doesn't match.
Secondly the aircraft is very sensitive to the throttle setting. You can control pitch easily with the throttle alone. This is key on approach as you reverse the controls... elevators for speed, throttle to control descent. This is my biggest disappointment and hope a patch is released to fix this issue.
Lastly grass taxying does not need 2000+ rpm in real life, 1500 to 1700 is more than sufficient even in medium length wet grass. You can also use the prop wash and some up elevator to keep the load off of the nose wheel for grass taxying something not modelled. 
Other flight dynamics seem fine, she is a little quick to 80 knots but handles quite well. Stall handling is about what I would expect although a 152 likes to oscillate more than is modelled and doesn't snap away so quickly in a full power on stall to spin. The trim is effective, something a student gets very familiar with over the course of a PPL!

Summary
Certainly better than the last 152 to hit the market. The modelling is great (I haven't messed with the paint kit yet) but the flight dynamics need some work for that true 152 experience. If your a PPL student, don't use this plane and expect real life behaviour. For the novice or those interested in a low and slow two-seater, go for it. A lot of flight schools have at least GNS 430s so the support for the Flight 1 units will help you find your way around the cockpit and radio stack a little easier. 

Score
4 out of 5, a patch for the flight dynamics would take this to a 4.5/5.
Back to Top
Delta558 View Drop Down
First Officer
First Officer

Just Flight FDE Developer

Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Points: 357
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 5:35pm
Points noted and taken on-board, thank you. Some initial responses, don't take these as definitive; I will be going through all feedback and seeing what can be done once there is a bit more.

Here we go again with flapsLOL With the PA28 series, you could not get two pilots to agree on the correct response. Some said nose up, others nose down, others up then down! We have real world 152 pilots on the team, it's been tested by them and the predominant movement decided upon was nose down. After the adjustments were made, they were happy with it.

Pitch from throttle is not an easy one to simulate, but certainly something I can look at. Likewise with the propwash on the elevator to keep the nosewheel unloaded - that's something that has been absent from the sim since FS9 but has recently been added back in as part of the later pitch-derivatives table. I didn't want to put too much in while adjusting to the new tables and their effects.

The difference in ground friction between concrete and grass is entirely dependant upon the sim these days, I've set as much as I can so that it accelerates on concrete correctly (you say it's a little quick to 80kts, the point I had timed was from a standing start to rotation at 60kts - 12 seconds based on multiple videos). It's well known that the sim handles ground handling pretty badly and unfortunately, there has to be a compromise somewhere. I chose to go with getting the concrete speeds correct.

We have had feedback from another real world C152 pilot customer that "it behaves exactly like the c152 I normally fly", so I guess we're just looking at a little fine-tuning.
Cheers,
Paul.
Back to Top
GabethePilot View Drop Down
First Officer
First Officer
Avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Points: 267
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GabethePilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 6:01pm
Interesting stuff here. Good to see constructive criticism being taken onboard.

Have you managed to allow the instrument lighting to be used in the daytime ? This is what really let down the Piper 3.
..

Back to Top
mlb406 View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT
Avatar

Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Location: Lincolnshire
Points: 115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlb406 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 6:03pm
Hi all,

I've just bought and installed this C152 and have a few points to bring up:

- For me, the rudder is too sensitive. Even having turned down the sensitivity in the FSX menu, it's still too sensitive, which makes any crosswind correction during the flare/round-out incredibly difficult.

- Linking in, the spin characteristics for me are too violent in terms of side to side oscillations. This may be something to do with my rudder sensitivity, but I go through the stall process, kick the rudder and the whole plane shakes from side to side. Though I must say, it is nice to see some spinning actually implemented in a plane!

- The wheels don't roll at the same rate as the aircraft goes along the ground, which ends up looking very weird.

- As detheridge02 says, the flap sound/animation durations aren't quite right. They just need to be a little bit longer lasting and then they'll be good!

Otherwise a very good addon and I can't wait to start painting on my school's livery!

Regards,

Max
Back to Top
Martyn View Drop Down
Just Flight Staff
Just Flight Staff
Avatar
Development Manager

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Huntingdon, UK
Points: 7559
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 6:13pm
Thanks for the feedback and I'm glad you are all enjoying the aircraft.

Quote Have you managed to allow the instrument lighting to be used in the daytime ?

The dimmable instrument lighting can be used at any time of day.

Quote The wheels don't roll at the same rate as the aircraft goes along the ground, which ends up looking very weird.

The wheels are using a standard animation provided by the simulator but we'll take a look. The flap sounds are also using the default system but I'm sure that'll be a quick fix. Presumably that sound mismatch is only occurring for you at a specific flap setting, as I don't remember encountering that during testing?

Thanks
Martyn
Martyn
Just Flight Ltd
Back to Top
detheridge02 View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff
Avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Points: 30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote detheridge02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 6:20pm
Thanks Paul. Good to see comments taken on board.
For a C152 II the first two stages are definitely nose up. Third stage is nose down. 

As a pilot you get into a habit when setting flaps of automatically setting trim to compensate, it becomes second nature!

The 80kts I was referring to was from Vx (55kts for a C152 II) to 80kts.

Thanks for listening and well done on the 152, certainly beats the *other* C152 ;-)

Dave
Back to Top
Jocko Flocko View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 22 May 2013
Location: Wasaga Beach
Points: 22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jocko Flocko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 6:26pm
Compared to the latest *AWESOME* piper series from JF, what is the performance like with this 152? The *only* Just Flight GA plane I ever had issues with in terms of frame-rates was the TB-10/TB-20... 
Back to Top
GabethePilot View Drop Down
First Officer
First Officer
Avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Points: 267
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GabethePilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 6:48pm
Well it's a buy, from me. The Piper 3 stays in the hangar as I NEED lighting in the day, and just don't like the FS9-esque red glow I'm afraid. OCD I guess.

And I need a nice n easy GA for sightseeing.

May I assume framerate performance is not far off default aircraft in P3D ?
..

Back to Top
detheridge02 View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff
Avatar

Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Points: 30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote detheridge02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 6:59pm
I had no issues with performance at all, everything was fluid with no stutters at any point.
Back to Top
Martyn View Drop Down
Just Flight Staff
Just Flight Staff
Avatar
Development Manager

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Huntingdon, UK
Points: 7559
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 7:08pm
You should see comparable, if not better performance with the C152 than the PA28s.

We should have a demo available sometime next week.

Thanks
Martyn
Martyn
Just Flight Ltd
Back to Top
GabethePilot View Drop Down
First Officer
First Officer
Avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Points: 267
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GabethePilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 7:12pm
Sounds good. These study sims are all way and good, but they don't half run badly.

O the landing lights work if Dynamic Lighting is disabled in sim ?
..

Back to Top
Mgchristy View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 09 Mar 2018
Location: USA
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mgchristy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Mar 2018 at 7:55pm
First off - excellent plane! Based on my brief first impressions it's definitely worth the price of admission. I really look forward to playing around with it some more. As far as suggestions for future upgrades - perhaps a model with wheel pants?

I agree with detheridge02's point in particular regarding the 'ballooning' effect when lowering the flaps. I did all my initial RL training in 150/152s, although it's been about 25 years since I've last flown one. That does not qualify me as an expert by any means, yet I have strong recollections of a marked nose-up pitching when the first 10-20 degrees of flaps were initially lowered. This plane in FSX seems to exhibit the opposite tendency, with the nose dropping upon initial flap extension. Not a deal-breaker...but just wanted to chime in...

Thanks, and keep up the great work! Looking forward to seeing what other GA creations the Just Flight team has in the works...
Back to Top
Mikealpha View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 10 Mar 2018
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikealpha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 8:04am
First of all, thanks for the well done 152. Lovely memories to recreate the first solo 20 years ago. Just need to create an FFB profile for my Brunner Yoke (using a 172 profile right now), then it should feel like yesterday :)

I agree with the initial comments regarding Flaps and throttle/pitch relationship, could be improved.

Now, one thing that really disturbs : The reflection of the Strobes in the panel. Nerves pretty quickly. Can't remember having noticed it that much or noticed it at all in the real plane. Is there any way to get rid of that, or could you make that configurable ?

Mike


Back to Top
Martyn View Drop Down
Just Flight Staff
Just Flight Staff
Avatar
Development Manager

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Huntingdon, UK
Points: 7559
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 8:48am
Hi Mike,

Do you mean that the strobe lights are causing a reflection on the instrument panel? If so, which simulator are you using and does it only occur in low light conditions?

Thanks 
Martyn
Martyn
Just Flight Ltd
Back to Top
Mikealpha View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 10 Mar 2018
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikealpha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 9:20am
Originally posted by Martyn Martyn wrote:

Do you mean that the strobe lights are causing a reflection on the instrument panel? If so, which simulator are you using and does it only occur in low light conditions?


Yes, exactly ! Panel is sort of blinking permanently. P3D4.2. , and also at daytime.
I tried to turn dynamics reflections to off, but that doesn't have influence.

Mike
Back to Top
Martyn View Drop Down
Just Flight Staff
Just Flight Staff
Avatar
Development Manager

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Huntingdon, UK
Points: 7559
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 3:28pm
Thanks Mike, I'll take a look.
Martyn
Just Flight Ltd
Back to Top
scubaboy View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Points: 2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scubaboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by Mgchristy Mgchristy wrote:

- perhaps a model with wheel pants?

+1 to this - they look so classy with wheel pants.

And I'd pay extra for a float version, and also an Aerobat version, for flying "The Snake".
Back to Top
davenicoll View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Points: 15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davenicoll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 1:39am
Excellent topic...

Anybody get the Saitek switch panel to operate all the switches??

Dave
Back to Top
rlaycock View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 07 Nov 2015
Location: mail
Points: 12
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rlaycock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2018 at 3:52am
Hi all
I am relay enjoying this add on
One question should is save the fuel state?
A as mine always starts with 100%
Regards
Bob
Back to Top
SolRayz View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 12 Mar 2018
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SolRayz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 1:43am
Really loving the C152 thus far. But I agree with others, that the aircraft response with flaps down is a little off to say the least. Please update the FDE. 

If I could request adding an option to hide the yoke, that would be great. Also cockpit light button on ceiling overhead seems non functional. Also someone else mentioned the magnetos. I am also having an issue assigning the magnetos via FSUIPC. All other buttons are assignable and working. 

Thank you!

EDIT: Nevermind, hitting the badge hides yoke....Thumbs Up
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down