Flight Dynamic problem

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   I have been having the same problem with the trim drifting.  Lots of times I have just loaded the plane and nothing is turned on but the trim wheel starts to turn and will drive all the way to the end.  I uninstalled the plane because it was not usable.  I just installed it again to see if the problem is still there.I am using FSX and have a high end system.

Tom

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THibben Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Ground Crew Joined: 30 Apr 2017 Points: 51	Post Options Post Reply Quote THibben Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Flight Dynamic problem Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 11:07pm
	I have been having the same problem with the trim drifting. Lots of times I have just loaded the plane and nothing is turned on but the trim wheel starts to turn and will drive all the way to the end. I uninstalled the plane because it was not usable. I just installed it again to see if the problem is still there. I am using FSX and have a high end system. Tom
	Tom

Christoph4445 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 21 Jan 2014 Location: Switzerland Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote Christoph4445 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 12:38am
	Thank you for the fast reply. It is a great add-on and I can only thank you for your time and patience. Maybe your work with the super vc10 will bring a solution. Cheers Chris

Christoph4445 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 21 Jan 2014 Location: Switzerland Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote Christoph4445 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 12:26am
	I've tried a low pass: 98000 gross weight, full flaps, 120 knots: works great, the aircraft is level. After that I climbed up to 3000 at 170 knots and flaps 1. When I levelled off, the HSI showed -5. So the problem zone is flaps 1

Delta558 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List First Officer Just Flight FDE Developer Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Points: 383	Post Options Post Reply Quote Delta558 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 12:11am
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Delta558 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List First Officer Just Flight FDE Developer Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Points: 383	Post Options Post Reply Quote Delta558 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Dec 2018 at 12:08am
	All I can say is that the VC10 pilot who tested for us was happy with it and told me not to alter anything about the pitching (which makes it particularly frustrating that a number seems to have disappeared from the start of the pitch MOI, but I digress). One area we spent a lot of time looking at was the pitching on the initial flap selection, as it causes an initial upwards pitch followed by a smaller downwards change. Apparently the RAF simulator never got this right - I've attempted to create something of the sort by using the timings of flap and slat extension (total of approximately 15 seconds), with the first 10 seconds (slat extension time) pitching up and then the final 5 seconds only the pitching downwards from the trailing edge flaps should be noticeable. The flaps are incredibly powerful and are set well aft, the effect is much more dramatic at higher speeds. If you watch some of the circuit work (such as the final landing at Bruntingthorpe) you'll see a lot of 'nose down' in fairly level flight! Cheers, Paul.

Christoph4445 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 21 Jan 2014 Location: Switzerland Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote Christoph4445 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 11:46pm
	In this real video, the vc10 does a low pass along the runway. It is completely level at 0:38. I can't say how far the flaps have been deployed. I'll try this when I have the time. https://youtu.be/I5S_C3kKMi0

Christoph4445 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 21 Jan 2014 Location: Switzerland Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote Christoph4445 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Nov 2018 at 11:38pm
	I'm sorry about continuing with this thread so late, but I've just bought the vc10 about a week ago. This plane is a lot of fun. I love it. However, I find the transition from clean to flaps 1 very difficult. In fact, I've tried a Level flight at 3500 feet with flaps 1, 170 knots, 97000 gross weight. What I was surprised to see was a level flight with the nose down about 5 on the HSI. It's even worse with a higher speed (e.g. 190). Now I'm wondering if that is like the real thing. To my mind this looks really odd. What can I do about this? Thanks for your patience. Regards Chris

Omid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 29 Dec 2017 Location: NSW Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote Omid Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 Oct 2018 at 2:48pm
	Just an update: As you may know there is an on-going issue with the aircraft bouncing up and down violently on the tarmac which is discussed here: http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=32235&PID=214327&#214327 The solution provided to this problem by user Willykurtz using the .CFG file from version 1.2 seems to have corrected both the bouncing issue and the problem currently discussed in this topic. This is after testing the aircraft with the provided .CFG file during several flights since my last post. I have not yet compared the text from this file with the current CFG file to see what's exactly different but simply replacing it has apparently fixed the problem. More feedback will be appreciated.
	Regards-Omid

Omid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 29 Dec 2017 Location: NSW Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote Omid Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Oct 2018 at 3:19pm
	Thanks buddy!!!
	Regards-Omid

Lord Nibbo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 08 Nov 2014 Location: United Kingdom Points: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lord Nibbo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Oct 2018 at 2:04pm
	I've altered too many things to put it down to one causing the problem, no doubt those pureists that want it to be an exact copy of how the real planes flies will cringe at what I've done. But I just want something that dont porpoise over 2000 ft in a turn and to keep quoting to trim the plane out.... well thats ok if you got more than twenty miles to trim it but making a tight turn into an ILS you aint going to manage it. If I were to list the main thing I altered it would be this [flight_tuning] cruise_lift_scalar=1.0 pitch_stability=0.1 But as I've already said these are just a couple of what I've changed I just can't remember all the others I've changed.

Omid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 29 Dec 2017 Location: NSW Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote Omid Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Oct 2018 at 12:35pm
	Many thanks Lord Nibbo Can you please forward it to dr_kah at yahoo dot com? And may I ask what did you identify as the culprit? and what logic did you follow to make those modifications? I'm sure the others including the developers would be interested in knowing how changing things have solved the problem for you as well as comment on the pros and cons. Regards Omid
	Regards-Omid

Lord Nibbo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 08 Nov 2014 Location: United Kingdom Points: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote Lord Nibbo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Oct 2018 at 10:19am
	I have cured this with a huge edit of the aircraft.cfg if you would like a copy of my aircraft.cfg I fly using Prepar3Dv4 but I expect it should work in FSX my email is djbeckett at gmail.com change the at for @ the same goes for anyone not satisfied with the flight model, email me and I'll post you a copy of my cfg.

Omid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 29 Dec 2017 Location: NSW Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote Omid Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Oct 2018 at 2:27pm
	Hi there Sorry for resurrecting the seemingly dead thread! Now, I need to get back to the original post on this thread which is about maintaining altitude during cruise; I'm NOT talking any flap levels and yes the aircraft has been trimmed before engaging the autopilot but it goes through large swings of pitching up and down and gaining/losing altitude by THOUSANDS rather than hundreds or tens of feet and literally never settling into stead flight. And during a turn.........OMG. Disengaging the AP and hand trimming is of no help and in fact trimming the AC in this crazy phase is next to impossible. I'm a newbie with this aircraft and I've only flown it a few times but in 3 out of 4 flights I've been unable to take my hands off the yoke/trim for a minute! Only in 1 flight did the AC behave completely normally in the air (bouncing on the ground remains an unsolved issue and I acknowledge it's mentioned in another thread which also appears to have reached a dead-end). With all the explanations Paul provided here (with thanks!), I do not think this should be the normal behaviour of ANY aircraft and I've never seen it happen on any other freeware or payware for that matter. Paul, Martyn and other gurus, have you actually seen a footage of what we're talking about? I understand that so far you guys have not been able to reproduce the problem. Has anybody provided videos of the problem?
	Regards-Omid

kayjaydeee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 05 May 2015 Points: 9	Post Options Post Reply Quote kayjaydeee Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 May 2018 at 2:50pm
	I had forgotten that Flare meant you had to land it yourself! OK now hopefully the Super will have Autoland although it wasn't very good on the real thing. Ken

Delta558 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List First Officer Just Flight FDE Developer Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Points: 383	Post Options Post Reply Quote Delta558 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 May 2018 at 2:03pm
	Hand flown.

kayjaydeee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 05 May 2015 Points: 9	Post Options Post Reply Quote kayjaydeee Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 May 2018 at 1:47pm
	Was that hand flown or autopilot flare?

Delta558 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List First Officer Just Flight FDE Developer Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Points: 383	Post Options Post Reply Quote Delta558 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 May 2018 at 1:37pm
	You're spot on with the threshold speed there for 90,000, power off stall speed at that weight in the landing config is 92kts (power on slightly higher, but I've not got the graph for that one!). Provided you are correctly trimmed for the approach there should be plenty of elevator authority for a flare - I've just tried it and found myself floating off down the runway waiting for a little bit of sink when the speed had bled off, and most definitely landed with a nose-up attitude.

kayjaydeee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 05 May 2015 Points: 9	Post Options Post Reply Quote kayjaydeee Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 May 2018 at 10:32am
	Thanks for that. Having played around with the numbers I have got it to land in a level attitude 120 Kts at 90,000 kgs. The flare appears to be non existent though.

Delta558 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List First Officer Just Flight FDE Developer Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Points: 383	Post Options Post Reply Quote Delta558 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 May 2018 at 6:42pm
	I think you may be right in focusing on the lift there - lift from the flaps particularly is very high to meet the stall speeds from the ODM graphs, in fact I had to resort to multiple flap entries with different lift and drag figures for specific ranges because with just one flap entry (as is normally done in the sim), the correct lift amount at full flap to give the right stall speeds resulted in the take-off config causing the mains (and entire rear of the aircraft) to lift off first, sort of B52 style. However, there are plenty of videos strewn across YouTube of VC10s approaching in either a level or nose-down attitude, a selection of 3 RAF and one BOAC below to illustrate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWLxxX65MPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF0M3Y1lJos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6cpdsuk5KI https://youtu.be/fx8Ezjk6qqQ?t=1m3s I found the majority of videos to show this sort of angle, but again in none of them do we know the actual speeds, rate of descent or payload / CG. I have built the fde primarily off the figures from the ODM, then watching endless videos and having conversations with a VC10 pilot who tested for us, but I'm not going to rigidly insist that it's right as it is - what I will do is look at it again when we come to the Pro / RAF / Super versions and anything which gets altered for that will (where relevant) be adjusted in this version. Cheers, Paul.

kayjaydeee Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Check-In Staff Joined: 05 May 2015 Points: 9	Post Options Post Reply Quote kayjaydeee Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 May 2018 at 4:12pm
	Looking at the outside view with full flap, 130 kts and 600 fpm descent the body angle is about zero or slightly nose down. During my 7 years as VC10 flight crew I always felt the body angle to be nose up in that config. Is the model producing too much lift?