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Hunter Instability Question

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rodtod11 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Sep 2017 at 2:43am
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but the Hawker Hunter, a beautiful plane ,  just doesnt seem to fly right for me. I get a LOT of rocking back and forth from left to right consistently. Been through the manual and do not see anything. Am I missing something?     I also see the problem om the Meteor , just a bit less. BUT, none of the other planes I have do this.
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2017 at 6:02am
That's an easy answer, but for the detailed explanation you will have to wait until after i finish work and dig it up from elsewhere on the forum and copy and paste!

Basically, if you are using default weather then tick the box 'disable wind and turbulence on aircraft' in your settings. If you are using add-on weather, by far the better option,  then turn down with d and turbulence to about 10%.

That should get you flying for now, more later with a detailed explanation.

Cheers,
Paul.
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rodtod11 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rodtod11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2017 at 1:37pm
That worked. However P3D v4 doesnt have the option for setting turbulence to 10% , only on or off.
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2017 at 1:52pm
You're using default weather, then? I don't have P3D v4, but all the base sims have the 'on/off' for that so I presume v4 is no different. For the 10% setting, you would need one of the add-on weather programs, such as Active Sky - they are fully configurable, so you can spend a bit of time and get a really good effect. Anyway, only another couple of hours left of this shift and I can get back and find the detailed explanation for you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2017 at 1:55pm
That's because the default weather is basically a bit crap in P3D V4, which is why most people use Active Sky, which will allow you to fin tune the turbulence a bit better.

Active Sky is a bit pricey, but it does certainly do a good job of adding realistic weather, although to see the real benefits of it, it really also needs Active Sky Cloud Art too in order to look decent, which again is something you have to buy.

On the plus side, you can buy those from Just Flight and at least get a few Reward Points for having done so. I understand they also offer some discounts if you have one of their earlier versions of Active Sky, but unfortunately not if you have it through Steam (which I did) so I waited for HiFi, the developers of Active Sky, to have a sale, which made the purchase of AS and ASCA a bit more palatable price-wise.

Personally, I think HiFi were taking the p*ss a bit to not have the cloud textures be part of Active Sky and adding it as another payware product if you want my opinion, but it's kind of something you're stuck with having to swallow if you want it to look decent and not use P3D's frankly rubbish default cloud artwork.
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Sep 2017 at 5:43pm
Okay then, found and copied the explanation from elsewhere on this forum:


"If an aircraft is developed using real-world coefficients and moments of inertia alongside max sensitivity on the controller axes, it gives much more accurate control - the 'fingertip response' which is necessary for fine adjustments, particularly but not exclusively of fighter-type aircraft. Unfortunately, when MSFS was initially developed the stock aircraft did not use real-world coefficients, the aircraft were massively over-damped and therefore the stock weather system had to be much stronger than it really should be to elicit any reaction from the aircraft.  If you fly with little or no weather in these aircraft, you have the regular complaint that the aircraft feels like it runs on rails. This has been well known for many years now.

That method of fde design continued over the years but more recently there have been a few aeronautical engineers involved in developing flight models and they have been doing so in the manner described above using real world figures. This process has been made easier by the advent of add-on weather programs which are adjustable, and between 10 and 15% wind / turbulence effect is generally seen to be the rough area for realistic response to weather. The main point is that if you are prepared to make some adjustments to your setup (after all, who hasn't tweaked the sim over the years?) then you will get a much better 'feel' for the flight characteristics."


Hope that gives you an idea of the background to the Hunter (amongst others) development,
Cheers,
Paul.




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rodtod11 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rodtod11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2017 at 2:01am
I do have ASN, and found that by taking your advice, turn off turbulence, it is far more realistic.
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snave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote snave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2017 at 8:32am
Originally posted by rodtod11 rodtod11 wrote:

That worked. However P3D v4 doesnt have the option for setting turbulence to 10% , only on or off.

Not entirely correct, The turbulence scale is a direct setting in the Prepar3d .cfg.

Default is 1.000
you can scale it down to anything to suit, while leaving the turbulence on. Suggest 0.300 and work down from there.

P3D has NO complex weather engine by default (and design) so as others have said one of the aftermarket packages will massively enhance your simming experience. Learning to edit their wider range of settings is a useful skill. 

I wouldn't turn turbulence off, if gives wholly unrealistic `flying on rails` effect that isn't true to life. Wink
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 2017 at 9:28pm
To give you an idea of what I'm seeing with both winds and turbulence set at 12% in ASN, I recorded the following video. Weather was manually adjusted so that below 6000ft there were 3 bands of winds ranging from 15 to 19 and back to 15kts, with both moderate and severe turbulence. I also deliberately brought the aircraft back to near the stall in the circuit, to see if any 'instability' really had much of an effect. Having compared it to various Hunter cockpit videos, I'm happy with the way it is set up:

https://youtu.be/oyOjKYQldWM

Cheers,
Paul.

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