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Nav (both NAV and OMNI) not working properly

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mikjet View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Aug 2017 at 10:52pm
trying to do some NAV work using either NAV or OMNI acting crazy near the station.    I was able to track inbound to a VOR then changed the OBS so it would make adjustment and continue to track a radial outbound. the plane goes into a spin trying to catch something, not sure what it's doing, but it's definitely not the radial I want (radial is just few degrees from the one I came in on)   tried both NAV and OMNI.    Noticed it does this close to the station. If far away enough, it's pretty OK.   Will try few other things and see.

Movie showing NAV spin entry:

https://youtu.be/fo6JHNrGFg0

setup: P3D v4 (default radio, no GPS addon or anything) PA28R III Turbo. Came in on 330 TO and wanted to switch to 308 FROM.

on other notes:
** no Avionics Off/On switch
** strong pull on the ground I reported already. Calibrated my joystick 10 times already.   (yes, I know about p-factor and expected pull to left. I fly these planes in real life)   pull is either hard left or hard right, did not figure out fix as of yet.
** please fix night lighting
** option to remove G100.

regards,

Michel.   
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 12:02am
Originally posted by mikjet mikjet wrote:


** strong pull on the ground I reported already. Calibrated my joystick 10 times already.   (yes, I know about p-factor and expected pull to left. I fly these planes in real life)   pull is either hard left or hard right, did not figure out fix as of yet.
  


I'm just asking because you say the pull is EITHER left or right - that can't be P-factor, which will only take it one way. It sounds to me like you are using default weather or an add-on weather program without adjusting the effect of wind and turbulence and a crosswind is hitting the aircraft. Both are massively overdone to compensate for the heavily damped stock aircraft and have a poor effect when you are using an aircraft designed with real-worl level coefficients. If you have an addon weather program, drop the relevant effects to the 10-15% area and you should find a much better experience.

Paul.
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mikjet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikjet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 12:54am
Flight was from KEGE to KIDA. I adjusted my rudder setting few times, worked well on other aircraft, but this one is always an interesting surprise (thank god the real life one doesn't do this - have CFI checkride coming up on a PA28R) never know what I am going to get. So on takeoff run, started pulling left (expected that) corrected with right rudder, all of a sudden, it now pulls hard right. That should not be happening.    

Oh, weather is ASP4. Nice weather out west, nothing that should cause any problems.

on descents, with power at about 20MP, and aircraft trimmed and expecting straight ahead descent, it's pulling badly to the left and aircraft starts turning left to no end unless I keep correcting back right....again, should not happen and definitely not happening on the real aircraft. I fly it long distances and do not have to wrestle it to the right all the time.

You agree that p-factor not an issue with low power and nose down, right?   P-Factor strongly felt high power and slow speed. In cruise alt and speed, should not be felt. On descent, with low power setting, also should not be felt.   

something in the modeling is just messed up in my opinion.
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mikjet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikjet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 1:20am
In fact, here's a video of my real life PA28R flight KVRB to KFXE at 7500.   
at cruise, I am barely touching anything. aircraft trimmed, no AP, no rudder trim adjustment made, no p-factor.   barely using rudder just for directional correction, barely. you can see how stable the aircraft is. that's what I expect from simulated aircraft.   Is my expectation too high?   

watch here:
https://youtu.be/87sl7spghMM
https://youtu.be/6uxPGXc5swk
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mikjet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikjet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 4:22am
Here's a video showing the aircraft's tendency to enter left steep turn without initiating one. leveled it, pull power back....it's pulling left badly. As you can see, have to wrestle it back to straight and level. Like I said, very unrealistic and thankfully, the real aircraft does not behave like that.

https://youtu.be/fbD6INRMf5c
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 11:05am
If that is what you are seeing, then there is definitely something wrong with either your setup or the installation. Yes, there will be a very slight tendency to pull to the left because the way the default MS coding (the base sim itself) applies the P-factor to the aircraft BUT it should be easily held and barely noticeable. The vid below shows how it should behave in the sim - trims all as the aircraft loads up, no changes there. Real world weather set up as I mentioned previously. I forgot that you'd want to see the control inputs, so I put the yoke back in shortly after take-off and also tried to show you the power settings I was flying at. It is stable throughout, nothing at all like what you have shown:

https://youtu.be/DDdkl95fENs

All of the PA28s we have created share the same basic fde with appropriate modifications (engine etc) based on documentation and a large amount of real-world pilot and owner input. What you have shown should definitely not be happening, however a couple of people have seen it post-release so you will find that aileron trim is enabled in the aircraft (I know the real aircraft doesn't have it). As a way of lessening the problem, try using that until we can work out what is causing a small handful of people to see what you have shown in your video. You should hopefully then see the stable aircraft you expect.

Paul.
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mikjet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikjet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 12:59pm
Thanks Paul, so I am not the only one?  feeling a bit better now.  Smile
I have another joystick that I can use for testing.  
Do you guys have any knowledge of any specific joystick hardware that may misbehaving for any reason?

Let me know if there is anything I can do to assist you guys in resolving this.   Test, provide data, video.

Also, please look at the behavior I mentioned at the top where the NAV (OMNI or NAV) goes crazy close to the station, unless I am not doing something correctly.   I also posted a video showing my 'paxs' holding on for dear life every time we reach a VOR.  LOL    

Michel.
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 2:21pm
Your best bet for a quick answer with all the non-fde bits is to create a support ticket as this is not an official support forum and I only really work on the flight dynamics. Given that you seem to be experiencing an extreme reaction in the bank, but an equally extreme reaction in the gauges, I think getting the latter fixed first should be your priority just in case there is a link through either your setup or the installation.

Once that's done, if you are still having problems with the banking we can look further into it and try to narrow down the cause. Meanwhile, for practical use if you could try the aileron trim to keep you flying and hopefully we'll have you sorted in short order.

Cheers,
Paul.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 5:21pm
   I had a problem like this for weeks. Tried everything and then concluded it is time to take the CH rudders apart. If I can find a problem even if I broke them at least the symptom would be solved. Sure enough there was a wire that was shorting out, barely had a few threads of wire. It was Extremely difficult but I soldered it back together and it has been working fine for years. It would have strong improper rudder inputs????? I was ballistic over this until I finally figured it out
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mikjet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikjet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 10:29pm
Uninstalled the bundle from both v3 and v4 and reinstalled only for v4.
plane behaves much better now.   did couple touch and goes, went well.

why is there no avionics switch?   Any reason this was omitted?

Michel.

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Martyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2017 at 8:23am
Hi Michel,

The real Arrow that we used for research had no separate avionics/radio master switch, and our product is a 100% replica of that real aircraft. 

The Warrior that we photographed did have an avionics master switch, so our Warrior does too.

Thanks
Martyn
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mikjet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikjet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2017 at 2:20am
Thanks Martyn,   I never seen an aircraft with no avionics switch, I can't imagine allowing unstable power on start up to possible fry the delicate avionics.   

The pull to the left is back - cannot figure out what it is. will classify this as unresolvable design bug hoping you guys fix this later.

Was considering getting the warrior, but concerned the same issues will be present: exaggerated left pull, awful night lighting.   

Michel.
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