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Loss of Power After Take Off
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tanker82 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 May 2017 at 6:23am
Hi: I don't know if this is something I did, but after taking off in the Turbo Arrow for the first time, I could not maintain power or climb. I could barely keep the plane airborne.  It was as if I was experiencing carburetor icing, but should there be icing in a turbo charged aircraft? Anyway, the plane is beautiful, and once this issue is sorted out, I'm sure it will be perfect.  Mike Gutierrez, North Hollywood, California
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Martyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 2:14pm
Please download and install the latest version of the product - https://www.justflight.com/support/pa28-turbo-arrow/32f5bd1

Apologies for the inconvenience.

Thanks
Martyn
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nippa View Drop Down
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Points: 10 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nippa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 10:31am
This has been puzzling several of us given that the real TA IV has something of a reputation for poor handling.

The real pilot's handbook is available online from the Swiss Flying School ... flugschulebasel.ch and has proved useful.

Before departure do a maximum power run-up while setting fuel mixture and propeller pitch to achieve a maximum manifold pressure and rpm. Now look at your trim and set it to nose up by quite a bit.
By doing this when you slowly open the throttle you achieve the best you can without going over the red lines and hopefully with the trim back so far you will unstick cleanly.

In this way I can cruise close to book speeds although rarely achieving 75% power...something feels wrong.
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taildraggin68 View Drop Down
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Points: 21 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote taildraggin68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 1:55pm
Same issue here on the IV model only.  Support ticket sent.  As a temporary work around, I did copy/rename the III fde to the IV model folder saving the original.  I'm sure they can fix this in short order.
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Points: 383 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2017 at 8:35pm
Using the airfile from the 3 and renaming it is the way to go for now - there should be only one very slight difference between the 3 and the 4 airfiles and that is to do with the elevator, nothing at all to do with the engine. Clearly something has got muddled somewhere, I haven't had a chance to look into it yet but hope to find the problem early tomorrow.

Cheers,
Paul.
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My IV is working perfectly as far as I can tell.  It gets right up to speed and handles very well.  I have made several landings and all were very good.

Tom 
Tom
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Martyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 2:14pm
Please download and install the latest version of the product - https://www.justflight.com/support/pa28-turbo-arrow/32f5bd1

Apologies for the inconvenience.

Thanks
Martyn
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nippa View Drop Down
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Points: 10 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nippa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by THibben THibben wrote:

My IV is working perfectly as far as I can tell.  It gets right up to speed and handles very well.  I have made several landings and all were very good.

Tom 

I can't get into a cruise climb as the model ( just the IV ! )  is still underpowered ; I've sent a ticket.
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Same here
Same as before, no change.

Anthony
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Points: 383 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 7:13pm
Have you downloaded the new version from Martyn's post? There should be NO difference between the III and the IV air files except for one table to do with the elevator. That was the problem - somehow in the original download the file had become corrupted, I took the elevator table and put it in the III airfile (which nobody has had a problem with), renamed it for the IV and it should now be okay.

Incidentally, the only differences in the aircraft.cfg file are the aircraft selection and the tail details within the airplane geometry section.

Engines, drag etc should now be identical between the III and the IV.

Cheers,
Paul.
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Points: 124 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anthonye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2017 at 7:51pm
Well yes I have, thats why I posted here.
Hell of a job to take off, the last time I checked the III that was fine on the previous version.

Anthony
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Either one will only go to around 2000ft, and trimmed the max speed is around 90 to 95.
The low tail will climb better but it just seems to be the 2000ft mark it plays up.
The rpm does not drop, but the sound of the engine seems to drop off gradually.

I think this is a problem with the FSX-SE versions that are causing the problems, would be interesting to see what the others are using if they could be bothered to add to this and just say "ok here". On my non turbo versions you will see in another thread I had even a problem with the panel state loading incorrect, until found a procedure to workaround this.

Can't see any way forward for the problems with the Arrow's it does get very frustrating just more info would help.

Anthony
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nippa View Drop Down
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Points: 10 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nippa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 1:59pm
Hold fire

Support have just sent me some new files and the IV flies nicely now but only at the second attempt after manually adding them and overwritng the existing files.

Could it be that the new  air and cfg files are not overwriting the old when doing a lazy install over the old version?
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Points: 124 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anthonye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by nippa nippa wrote:

Hold fire

Support have just sent me some new files and the IV flies nicely now but only at the second attempt after manually adding them and overwritng the existing files.

Could it be that the new  air and cfg files are not overwriting the old when doing a lazy install over the old version?


I did a clean install as always.

Would have nice to have been sent the files as well to test.........

Anthony
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wingmanab View Drop Down
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+1 with new installer.
At recommended decent power settings (20" and 2300) with mixture rich the Piper assumes a 2000' decent. Holding the pitch to 500' minute causes indicated speed to fall near to stall.
I don't have to non turbo version, so cannot patch files.
I'm using FSUIPC to control all axis, but have rechecked calibration, and they seem fine.
Something's up.
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Points: 124 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anthonye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by wingmanab wingmanab wrote:

+1 with new installer.
At recommended decent power settings (20" and 2300) with mixture rich the Piper assumes a 2000' decent. Holding the pitch to 500' minute causes indicated speed to fall near to stall.
I don't have to non turbo version, so cannot patch files.
I'm using FSUIPC to control all axis, but have rechecked calibration, and they seem fine.
Something's up.


I thought it was fsuipc as well as you, checked it and it's fine, not that causing the fault.

Anthony
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wingmanab View Drop Down
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Points: 18 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wingmanab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 2:46pm
Checking against performance tables for climb from sea level, we should see close to 1000'/min at max power settings (41" and 2575rpm, at normal take off weight (2400lb which is full tanks and one passenger).

Just checked this, as see less than 500'/minute, so definitely a marked difference to standard operating performance.
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Martyn View Drop Down
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Points: 7615 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 2:47pm
A new installer is now available which contains the updated Arrow IV FDE.

Thanks
Martyn
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Points: 383 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 3:36pm
Please uninstall the old one and delete any leftover files before using the new installer. FSX has a nasty habit of not fully overwriting files and just dropping the new install over the top of the old can result in problems. If for any reason these files don't fix your problems we can then eliminate at least one part of the install process!

If you then are not seeing book figures, then there is definitely something amiss. We have several Turbo Arrow pilots on the testing team and they are happy that it is realistic to their aircraft and showing the correct speeds / climb and descent rates for given engine settings. I have taken the files in the new installer up in both FSX and P3D and see the same results in both sims.

Hope you get flying with this installer,
Paul.
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Points: 124 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anthonye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 4:32pm
Seemed ok at first, plenty of power. Got to 2500ft put the autopilot on height hold. After a few minutes at 2500ft power seemed to go down  slightly and speed dropped to about 60-70 then stalled.
Always seems to come in at around 2000ft.
No weather conditions, just the default.

Anthony
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Martyn View Drop Down
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Points: 7615 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 4:51pm
It's a long shot but what happens if you enable 'Carb heat/eng anti-ice' and 'Propeller de-ice' using the keyboard assignments ('H' etc)?
Martyn
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