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Loss of Power After Take Off

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anthonye View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anthonye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by Martyn Martyn wrote:

It's a long shot but what happens if you enable 'Carb heat/eng anti-ice' and 'Propeller de-ice' using the keyboard assignments ('H' etc)?


That's a thought, will try it later and let you know
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anthonye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by Martyn Martyn wrote:

It's a long shot but what happens if you enable 'Carb heat/eng anti-ice' and 'Propeller de-ice' using the keyboard assignments ('H' etc)?

It was worth a try, but no difference.

Anthony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THibben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by Martyn Martyn wrote:

It's a long shot but what happens if you enable 'Carb heat/eng anti-ice' and 'Propeller de-ice' using the keyboard assignments ('H' etc)?

Martyn,

I flew a flight, as you suggested, with Carb heat/eng anti-ice and Propeller de-ice on.  There were no sound anomaly's.  The weird thing though was when I turned them both off the sound still didn't occur.  I tried it several times both from a standing start and from touch and goes. It was all the same with no noise.

The problem with the propeller de-ice is it just toggles on and off with the L key and there is no indication, that I could find, as to whether it was on or off.  I don't know whether any of this helps or not.

Tom
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anthonye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 10:37am
Originally posted by anthonye anthonye wrote:

Seemed ok at first, plenty of power. Got to 2500ft put the autopilot on height hold. After a few minutes at 2500ft power seemed to go down  slightly and speed dropped to about 60-70 then stalled.
Always seems to come in at around 2000ft.
No weather conditions, just the default.

Anthony

Tried the Turbo III this morning that is exactly the same as the IV, where as  before this latest update it was fine.

I tried all checks now, will leave it to you.....

Anthony
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anthonye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 10:52am
Originally posted by anthonye anthonye wrote:

Originally posted by anthonye anthonye wrote:

Seemed ok at first, plenty of power. Got to 2500ft put the autopilot on height hold. After a few minutes at 2500ft power seemed to go down  slightly and speed dropped to about 60-70 then stalled.
Always seems to come in at around 2000ft.
No weather conditions, just the default.

Anthony

Tried the Turbo III this morning that is exactly the same as the IV, where as  before this latest update it was fine.

I tried all checks now, will leave it to you.....

Anthony

Forgot to mention. If the Turbo is run first, the non-turbo cfg is all reset to zero's when it is loaded again, not good.

Anthony
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b1bmsgt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b1bmsgt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 4:17pm
I tried the 102 version of the Arrow IV last night and experienced no problems. Cruised at 4000msl for about 30 minutes with no loss of power.

Russ
Master Sergeant, USAF, Retired
Former T-33A Crew Chief
Former B-1B Crew Chief/Maintenance Expediter
Former Learjet Corp. Quality Inspector
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anthonye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 5:09pm
Looking back through the thread, looks like you do not have the problem.

Anthony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b1bmsgt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by anthonye anthonye wrote:

Looking back through the thread, looks like you do not have the problem.

Anthony


I didn't post it here, but I did enter a support ticket. The IV was acting pretty much how you have described it, but so far the update did it for me. Hope you have some good luck soon!

Russ


Master Sergeant, USAF, Retired
Former T-33A Crew Chief
Former B-1B Crew Chief/Maintenance Expediter
Former Learjet Corp. Quality Inspector
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BTSeven7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 1:30am
I have the exact same problem as described above.  I have never been over 2500 feet in this aircraft and I have been trying for two days.  III or IV it all does the same thing.  No reason and no warnings.  I have done everything listed in this thread.  I did an uninstall and install of the newest version and still get the exact same thing.  I originally started with IV and then switched to the III when I read people didn't seem to have problems with that.  Didn't fix anything.

On top of everything else, my Garmin GTN 750 is basically unresponsive in this aircraft.  It turns on but the buttons are inoperable at times and very slow often if they do work.

I am using P3D v3.4, newest update of that and not V4.  I use SPAD.next for my saitek stuff and have a hotas warthog throttle.  Windows 10 and every other aircraft I use have no issues.  

Needless to say this has been one giant 48-hour headache.    
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anthonye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 11:09pm
Just noticed, when this problem happens the fuel flow drops to 10 and the rpm drops to 180.
Mixture has not been altered and throttle is on full. 
Pump is on

Anthony
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Martyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 11:11am
Are you making sure not to overboost the engine? Here is some info from the FDE developer:

Quote
The first point is, with this aircraft you NEVER firewall the throttle. If you use full throttle, you will overboost the engine (Hg of roughly 46 at sea level - that is correct, confirmed by multiple real-world Turbo Arrow pilots). You should see the little square (greenish yellow at the top right of the panel) light up - that is the overboost warning light. You will also hear a kind of bubbling sound, which is the onset of detonation - the result of which is a loss of power, lower fuel flow and eventually complete failure of the engine.

Please try the following:

Full RPM and Mixture.
Throttle - advance slowly to just below the red line on the Manifold Pressure gauge (so roughly 40 - 41 Hg, you'll be able to take off as low as 38, but the red line is critical)
Carefully creep it briefly over the red line, check that the overboost light comes on (you may also hear the noise change with the detonation) then bring it straight back below.
Take off and fly around, try some climbs but keep the Hg at all times below the red line. You can use your mixture and RPM as normal.

You will find that, as pressure decreases with altitude, you will need to gradually increase the amount of throttle used to keep a given Hg, so that around the critical altitude for the turbo (12,000ft) you will probably have full throttle or somewhere near.
Martyn
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anthonye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 12:18pm
[QUOTE=Martyn]
Are you making sure not to overboost the engine? Here is some info from the FDE developer:


Yes that was it when he sent me the above to try, works perfect now.
Sorry about the confusion totally my fault all the time. I was pushing throttle to full and keeping it there.

First time I've had a turbo prop  Embarrassed

Thanks

Anthony
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2017 at 12:21pm
 Just downloaded and installed both the arrows for P3Dv4 and the turbo arrow appears to have the engine dying  problem again. Engine started to run out of power when above 6500 feet in spite of proper management ( I am a real world pilot ). The engine then caught fire . I wonder has the earlier fix not been applied to this aircraft ?
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2017 at 2:45pm
I don't have P3Dv4, so I cant test the fde in there but from what I can gather it shouldn't act any differently to v3.4 as the fde is still handled through the .air and .cfg files. There was no 'earlier fix' as such, just an incorrect file in the IV which was not a problem in the III. You don't specify in your post but you say you installed 'both the Arrows', is that normally-aspirated and Turbo, if so do you have the problem with both versions of the Turbo?

Cheers,
Paul.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 1:26pm
Hello Paul.. Thanks for your interest. I should have been more specific in my post. 

I have the original arrow 3 plus the turbo arrows version 3 and 4. it is the Turbo arrows I have the problem with. Each of these have different problems

In the turbo arrow 4 version, as I climb above about 3000 feet, the engine starts to slowly fade out. Just as it did in a previous release for the software for P3DV3. Just flight issued the `fix` I mentioned which cured the problem. Its as if it has fuel starvation. during one flight, I intended to level off at 7000 feet but the engine had other ideas so I reduced my altitude to 3000ft and levelled off. The engine then continued to fade and the fuel flow metre was reducing as the amount of fuel being supplied was becoming less and less.  The throttle RPM was showing 2500 even as the engine note was slowly reducing. If left to continue the engine will either die out or simulate and engine fire.

In the case of the turbo arrow 3 version. The engine starts to fade during the climb but I noticed that if I speed the sim up to x 4 speed the power comes back. In this aircraft I managed to climb to 9000 feet but then in the descent there was an unseen hand constantly pulling the throttle back. I tried increasing the throttle friction but it does n`t make any difference so I spent the flight constantly fighting the ghost in the right hand seat. The throttle wants to drop back to idle if you do not give it any input. All this happens in P3DV4 using a full set of Saitek controls and boxes and with FSUIPC 5 and spad next.

The normally aspirated arrow works perfectly as does the new PA28 161 warrior 2 that has just been released.

Hope the above makes sense

Regards.. Rob
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anthonye View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anthonye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 1:54pm
I had the same problem until Paul corrected me. What I was doing was keeping the throttle fully open and showing in the red on the gauge. I think they called it firewalling which it does not like, damages the engine.

Anthony

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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 3:05pm
Hi Rob,

Well, your description of the problem with the Turbo IV sounds like how MSFS depicts the onset of detonation (set within the sim itself). As I mentioned, I don't have P3Dv4 so I can't test to see if that is the case and I would be surprised if there was any difference in that area from how it was handled in previous versions. It is, of course, a possibility - might be worth you using a very long runway and much lower power settings, see if you can get airborne and maintain power and then gradually push the power up to see if you can find where the problem starts?

With the Turbo III, I've just done a similar flight (climb to height then descend) in v3.4 and don't see any throttle creep. The Hg and RPM also remain perfectly constant with either a gentle descent or steep dive near VMo.

It all says to me that v4 may have altered how it deals with turbos. That would definitely surprise me, but the fde should be identical as there is only one installer so it has to be either how the aircraft is being flown or how the sim handles it. From your description, you know what you are doing so we're left with the latter! Try the suggestion in my first paragraph if you can and if that doesn't give a clue it will probably be worth starting an official support ticket.

Cheers,
Paul.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 4:08pm
Hello Paul.. Thanks yet again for a prompt reply (even on a Sunday) !

I will try your suggestion and will also try the same aircraft in P3DV3.4  which I still have installed. I have installed all of the Arrows and Warriors  into both sims so I will compare them shortly. The Arrows were working fine in P3DV3.4 but I haven't tried them in P3DV3.4 since the dual installer came out for P3D. version 4. 

 I used to own a PA28 161 warrior 2 and apart from the lack of pitch up when the flaps are lowered that others have mentioned this aircraft is a credit to you guys.


Thanks again.. Rob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 7:03pm
After lots of testing on both sims. I found that both the turbo 3 and 4 arrows worked perfectly in P3DV3.4  I tried them again in P3DV4 and hey presto they worked perfectly. Even the ghost in the right hand seat pulling the throttle back disappeared.  The only thing I can think of is that I might have over boosted the engine during the initial phase of climb although I don't think I did.I made sure I kept the MP below the red line. This might have been the cause of the engine catching fire in a descent on the  tail Arrow 4 model.

The main thing is all is good now.

Thank you Paul and Anthonye for your suggestions.

Regards.. Rob
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Delta558 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Delta558 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 7:16pm
Phew! LOL
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