Just Flight Forum Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Just Flight Products > Traffic X / Traffic / Traffic 2005
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Minimum 50 minutes
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Minimum 50 minutes

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Darren View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT


Joined: 12 May 2008
Location: Melbourne
Points: 116
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Minimum 50 minutes
    Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 7:56am
Hi Everyone trying to create some flight plans all going ok until doing the return leg and I get this 50 minimum, what is this and is there anyway of getting around it I have tried to understand it by reading the tutorial but I just don't understand it, most airlines usually have a 2 hour turn around but it wont let me do that either any special way of doing the return leg?
Back to Top
RayM View Drop Down
First Officer
First Officer
Avatar

Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Location: Luton, England
Points: 377
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2016 at 9:22am
Darren,

Traffic X and Traffic 360 have a 'rule' which states that a return leg cannot depart until 50 minutes has passed from the previously calculated arrival time. As you will have seen, if you try to use LESS than 50 minutes, the schedule line turns red and you get a warning message.
Any period greater than 50 minutes should be OK of course.
What I do find sometimes is that, when a departure is scheduled less than 50 minutes, even though you change it to more than 50 minutes. the line stays red. Odd! Try editing the previous line by re-inputting the same departure time. This forces TX to re-calculate the situation and the line changes to black. If this does not succeed, I delete the first schedule and re-enter it. This nearly always corrects the situation.

If you go over to using AIFP (freeware) to add AI schedules, the 50 minute delay, does not apply. It has a more sensible approach to the arrival/departure situation.
A long time FSXA and Traffic X user
Back to Top
freddy View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Location: Melbourne, Aust
Points: 1326
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2016 at 2:21am
To elaborate on Ray's good answer ...

Remember that when you enter times in to the program, they must be typed in 24 hour format with no spaces or colons or anything and then you need to press the ENTER key.  For example, to enter 8:00pm, type in 2000 and then press your ENTER key.  The program will accept it and change it to 20:00.

The time that you enter must be 50 minutes (or more), after the ARRIVAL time of the plane's previous leg.  For example, if the plane leaves Melbourne at 5:00pm and arrives in Sydney at 6:15pm, then the ARRIVAL time, in Sydney, of that leg is 6:15pm.  So, if you now want that plane to fly on to Brisbane, or back to Melbourne, or whatever, you need to set the takeoff time for that Brisbane leg (or return to Melbourne leg, or whatever) to be 50 minutes AFTER 6:15pm ... which would be 7:05pm.  Or, to put it another way, the plane must be parked in Sydney for at least 50 minutes or more, and therefore it cannot depart Sydney until at least 7:05pm or later.  If you chose 7:05pm as it's departure time, then you need to set it for 1905 in the program and press your ENTER key.  If the time is accepted, the program will change your entry to 19:05 and it will be in black font.  If it is not accepted, it will be in red font and you will get an error message telling you it needs to be more than 50 minutes.  You can, of course, set the plane to leave later than that 7:05pm time if you wish; say, 19:30 (7:30pm) or 20:00 (8:00pm) or whatever later time you choose ... as long as the time you're choosing is more than 50 minutes after the arrival time of the plane's previous leg (ie, more than 50 minutes after 6:15pm in our example here).
 
 
Now, as for the 50 minute "rule" itself ... there is actually a (Microsoft) reason for the restriction, believe it or not.

This is from the FSX SDK, Traffic Toolbox section ...
 
============================================
Q:  Why does the TrafficDatabaseBuilder generate an error message if I schedule an aircraft to depart within 45 minutes of the time it arrived at an airport?

A:  The TrafficDatabaseBuilder enforces a minimum aircraft turnaround time of 45 minutes. A bit of flexibility is needed in the schedule to account for uncertainties due to winds aloft, approach vectoring, taxiing, obtaining takeoff clearances, etc. This flexibility in the schedule helps to ensure that if you follow an AI aircraft through its complete route that it would never get too far off schedule. Staying reasonably close to schedule is important because at 100 percent traffic density, nearly 100 percent of the available airport parking is utilized. If the schedules were constructed inflexibly, airports and parking spaces would frequently be over-utilized, creating traffic jams.
============================================
 
 
I don't know what AIFP does, but if it allows LESS than 45 minutes, then you need to be careful ... otherwise you will possibly experience unexpected behaviour from your AI.
 


Back to Top
Darren View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT


Joined: 12 May 2008
Location: Melbourne
Points: 116
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2016 at 7:54am
Hi Freddy and Ray flight plans are working now great to see the flights I have planned flying in to the airports now. What I have been doing is filling up Shanghai Pudong by transferring flight from that other Shanghai airport to Shanghai, I have been filling up Honoulu and I am going to try and swap flights from Gimpo to get them to fly into Inchon, now that I now how to do it. Flight Sim is doing well now thanks guys again for you help.
Darren.
Back to Top
RayM View Drop Down
First Officer
First Officer
Avatar

Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Location: Luton, England
Points: 377
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2016 at 10:51am
Darren,
well done for persevering with your AI workings. Now that you've got this far, I predict you will find it difficult to know when to stop and do some flying.
A long time FSXA and Traffic X user
Back to Top
freddy View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Location: Melbourne, Aust
Points: 1326
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2016 at 4:40am
What Ray said.
Back to Top
Darren View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT


Joined: 12 May 2008
Location: Melbourne
Points: 116
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2016 at 11:36am
Yes Gentleman it is very addictive trying to find Jetstar on the list but cant find them to add plans for them, same with Tiger as well cant seem to find them in the list. Do you know if they have been included in the airlines list on the flight plans to alter or add flights for Jetstar and Tiger?
Back to Top
RayM View Drop Down
First Officer
First Officer
Avatar

Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Location: Luton, England
Points: 377
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2016 at 5:14pm
Darren,

both Jetstar Airways (JST) and Tiger Airways (TGW) appear in the Airline/Carrier codes and each have an A320 in the Traffic X Simobjects so you do not need to 'add' either airline to this list and it is easy to add schedules.

In Windows Explorer, make 2 copies of an existing .tcc file and rename to JST.tcc and TGW.tcc respectively - use one that is only 1 Kb in size (e.g. BBR.tcc) as it won't contain many schedules that have to be deleted.

Open each of these files in Traffic X 'Flight Plans', delete any existing schedules and add the ones you want for each airline.

Many hours have been spent researching airline routes and then creating TX schedules that, in a small way, represent the 'real' thing.
Be careful when picking airports as possible destinations, as some may not have parking spots suitable for the aircraft you are sending there! Quite a few of the TX supplied schedules go to airports with insufficient or incorrect parking.

IMPORTANT
Having composed the above, I have just remembered that there is a airline schedule called "TX_Other.tcc" which, if called up in TX 'Flight Plans', does in fact include a few flights for both JST and TGW. You might like to check in here to see what schedules already exist in here before you go adding any more in files I suggested above.

The reason I had forgotten this is that, some years ago, I separated all of the different airline schedules out of TX_Other.tcc and put them into their own separate schedules for clarity purposes. This was another gripe had with Traffic X but when your are retired from work there is always time for doing such exercises.
A long time FSXA and Traffic X user
Back to Top
Darren View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT


Joined: 12 May 2008
Location: Melbourne
Points: 116
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 11:05am
Hi Guys having fun doing the flight plans went into Honolulu the other day and its great seeing my flights coming in now and Perth Airport looks great with a few aircraft in now doing the flight plans is more addictive than flying itself now
Back to Top
RayM View Drop Down
First Officer
First Officer
Avatar

Joined: 15 Nov 2012
Location: Luton, England
Points: 377
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2016 at 3:31pm
Sounds like you are well on the way to being an 60:40 virtual flyer - that is, spending 40% of your time doing the flying and the rest is spent doing AI, etc.

Well done.

I reckon that I would describe myself as an 80:20 as I spend as much time 'improving' airports/airfields as well as sorting out AI. Lately, my time has been taken up with revising Delhi airport (VIDP) which then required a load of AI to make it look even more 'real'. Wikipedia airport entries are really useful for this.
A long time FSXA and Traffic X user
Back to Top
freddy View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Location: Melbourne, Aust
Points: 1326
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2016 at 11:38am
Hehe. I can relate ...

I've just spent a good month or so rewriting some of the workings of Aerosoft's Airbus A320/A321 package by editing some of the XML code. Whilst the plane did work fine and Aerosoft did a brilliantly superb job of simulating the Airbus, there was just one or two things that niggled me and which I always thought I could improve. After completing my usual monthly rounds of editing other things in the sim such as traffic and various airport AFCAD files, I eventually bit the bullet and began investigating the XML code of the Airbus. One month later, and not much flying, I have "improved" the Airbus and, in my opinion, made it more realistic.

The beauty of this simulator is that you CAN do such things. That's credit to Microsoft and the Aces team, and also to the third party companies that create their products in such a way as to allow you to make changes and do edits. Just Flight included. Whilst doing such things is a whole lot of fun, it also means you can spend a bit too much time "modifying, editing and improving", and less time actually enjoying the flying ... which, of course, is what the simulator was written for in the first place.

It can be a tradeoff. I enjoy the editing, just as much as I do the flying. It's all part of the hobby.

Now, I'm off somewhere in the (improved) Aerosoft Airbus. That is, until this/next month's round of changes to AI, AFCADs, or whatever.

Back to Top
Darren View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT


Joined: 12 May 2008
Location: Melbourne
Points: 116
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2017 at 9:52am
Hey Guys yeah of late I have been a 60 40 I think I have done more flight plans than flown, I have transferred all the Gimpo flights over to Inchon, same with Shanghai and swapped all the flights to Pudong, filled up Honolulu and still need to do more to try and fill the gates, Adelaide looks good with the gates filled up and still filling up Perth and added more flights to JFK, San Francisco and LAX using the Wiki, now its back to flying now I am doing what I call a flight project and that is flying to the every Qantas destination on it international network from each of the main capitals half way through Brisbane at the moment and in between fiddling around still with flight plans having a great time on the flight sim.   
Back to Top
freddy View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Location: Melbourne, Aust
Points: 1326
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2017 at 2:01am
My Australian skies and airports have had plenty of work done for them ... hours and hours and hours of work ... they are constantly being updated.  From what I am reading here, yes, it sounds like you too are indeed well on you're way.  Smile
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down