The patch is amazing! |
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k4cz0rpl
Check-In Staff Joined: 23 Jul 2016 Location: Canada Points: 7 |
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Posted: 12 Sep 2016 at 5:14am |
PLS GO TO FSX/P3D key setup and check what buttons u have configured for brake left and right.Then realistic nose wheel will be easy ,specialy if u have a rudder pedals.
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kevinh
P/UT Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Points: 211 |
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Hi Paul, Looking at the manuals available online it seems the engine start switch is left ON after engine start. It enables a fuel boost pump and the engine relight system. So whether or not it switching it OFF should cause the engine to shutdown isn't important as you wouldn't switch it off in normal ops. Thanks Kevin
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kevinh
P/UT Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Points: 211 |
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Good call. I have the T-45 installed but have rarely flown it. I'll take a look at the documentation.
Kevin edit: that's a useful doc for reference. I also found a flight manual for the DCS Hawk online which is very detailed and more applicable to the T1.
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petesmiffy
P/UT Joined: 16 Jun 2015 Location: Lincolnshire Points: 169 |
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Dino Cattaneo's T-45C Goshawk has excellent documentation included. Slight problem with the flight numbers because the T45 is heavier than the Hawk and has a different air brake system, but they are pretty close. There is also a very good check-list, although the T45 has different avionics, I found it very helpful with the Hawk.
The T45 is extremely good, for freeware, but the Hawk, now that it has been patched, is much better in all respects. |
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Delta558
First Officer Just Flight FDE Developer Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Points: 383 |
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The start switch I have no idea on, personally - coding is not my area, I stick with the flight dynamics! I will mention it for you, though.
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kevinh
P/UT Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Points: 211 |
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Hi Paul, Thanks. I accept it's a copyright document and you can't supply a copy but it would really help if some guidance about takeoff speed, flap and trim was given in JF documentation. Stores don't make any difference to weight or CG in the Hawk sim. It looks like they are meant to as (most of) the stations are provided for. I also asked about the start switch issue but you didn't reply. Is it on the list to fix? Kevin |
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WarHorse47
P/UT Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Location: Puget Sound Points: 188 |
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Every time I attempt to read this post I get a white page and no text? Anybody know why?
--WH |
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Delta558
First Officer Just Flight FDE Developer Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Points: 383 |
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Hi Kevin,
The full Operating Data Manual gives it's take-off description (speeds etc) as I described above, it also specifically states that with two 'bulky' pilots and no external stores it may need up to two units of nose up trim. Also that with any pilot config, adding stores will increase the speed of rotation. This is a result of the very aft empty CG position (from memory, in the area of frame 20/21 which is a long way back). Any weight added forwards will make a significant difference to the energy required to lift the nosewheel. The Hawk handles differently depending on its weight distribution, you'll get used to it but I suppose it just takes a bit of planning. Unfortunately, the full manual is subject to copyright and we can't just start distributing it but it is available on the net and well worth a read. Paul. |
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kevinh
P/UT Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Points: 211 |
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That's weird because I can't get the nose to lift before 100 knots. Takeoff feels unnatural, unlike any other fast jet sim I've flown in FSX. The late rotation and post stall pitch up could be explained by an excessively forward CG. When I checked this via the FSX aircraft loading menu, CG is shown as being at 0% (i.e. at the leading edge of the wing). How does it look with your Hawk? I only checked stalls because that was a problem previously. But the rotation behaviour is a problem for every flight. Once in the air the handling is great. I can see a difference with SP1, just not as good as you and the developer are seeing. Strange. It would be nice to get to the bottom of this, because in all other respects this is a lovely addon to fly. Kevin Edit, All along I've been talking about flying the Hawk as it loads up by default, with two crew. Not having an instructor in the back seat has a big effect on CG and that explains why I'm seeing different characteristics. With only the pilot on board it rotates as you say. While checking this, I tried external stores, and they appear to be visual effects only. No effect on weight or CG.
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Paul Golding
P/UT Joined: 09 Sep 2013 Location: EGMC Points: 119 |
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I tried this again last night using full fuel, 1 pilot, mid flap and neutral trim. I repeatedly have the nose off the ground before 100kts and smoothly get into the air at around 120kts. In this config, I very definitely get no unwelcome pitching and raising gear and flap whilst accelerating is all very controllable. Basically, it flies like I'd expect a jet trainer would do. As speed increases, there is of course a need to constantly trim until speed is stable.
I didn't try stalling though :-( |
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kevinh
P/UT Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Points: 211 |
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Paul, To find Vmr I tried applying full aft stick to see what speed th enose lifted at. With no flap the nose doesn't begin to lift until around 130-140 knots, which is why I don't start to rotate until 150 with zero flap. This is with two crew (which is how it sets up from the install). I'll download it again and see what happens, but as the installer I have is named Hawk_Installer_SP1.exe, and I've made sure all traces of the old software are removed, I don't see how it can install pre-SP1 behaviour. The Hawk is flying differently, but not in the way you describe it should. For info, Control Panel shows the Hawk is at version 1.16.0000. The installer now on the site is named SP1a. I uninstalled SP1 and installed SP1a but the version number is the same. For takeoff using your config (pilot only, flap 25, zero trim), even if I hold the stick fully aft during the takeoff roll the nose will not lift until 105 KIAS. You may not be able to reproduce the entire Hawk manual here, but please give an indication in the documentation what the typical takeoff configuration is and what speed to rotate at. Regarding stall, I'm not increasing the aft stick. I have a small amount of aft stick to decelerate the aircraft at 1 knot per second. As the aircraft stalls it pitches up significantly (no change in my input). I tried it by trimming and leaving the stick neutral and that made no difference, it still pitched up during stall. Kevin
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Delta558
First Officer Just Flight FDE Developer Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Points: 383 |
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Kevin, there is definitely something amiss with what you have somehow:
I have just taken the release SP1 package up with one pilot and no weapons, mid flap and zero trim. A pull on the stick and the nosewheel will lift (as it should) at 90kias, you will have to hold it there and the aircraft flies itself off at (or slightly above) 120kias. Those are the figures from the manual and SP1 achieves it. The manual also notes that with two pilots and/or stores the nosewheel may not begin to lift until above 100, even with 2 units of nose-up trim. If you are delaying rotation until 150kts, it is no surprise that you are finding it pitching up - at that point in the acceleration you should already find that you are trimming forwards (though raising the flaps quickly will also help as they provide a small nose-up tendency in trim at lower speeds but a significant nose-up the nearer you get to 200kts). Also, you will find that by lifting the nosewheel at the correct speed you will need more stick input, as you expect! If you cannot get the nosewheel to lift at or around 90, I would suggest a fresh download from your account and re-install from that? Regarding the pitch: The empty weight CG on the Hawk is at roughly frame 21 (from memory) which is quite a way back, this is why pilots and stores have quite a noticeable impact on trim. In SP1, if you trim the aircraft correctly for low and decreasing speed flight down to and beyond the stall with stick neutral, the aircraft does not pitch up but enters a descending stall maintaining the same attitude. If you do have SP1 properly installed and the nose continues to rise then you are applying rearwards pressure on the stick. As I said, work in progress but the controls are effective below the stall speed and will affect the nose even when I have completed work on that area. Meantime, try not to stall it! I really hope we get this sorted for you, Kevin, and I am sure that what you are quoting is so similar to pre-SP1 behaviour and so unlike SP1 behaviour that the problem must be in there somewhere! Paul. |
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kevinh
P/UT Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Points: 211 |
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I don't see how it could install incorrectly. I uninstalled the original and installed SP1. If I have an air file, the dlls and aircraft.cfg from the new versions that should be it. To be certain I've uninstalled and reinstalled again. As for takeoff settings it really would be helpful if some reference was provided for rotation speed, flaps and trim settings. So I'm guessing speeds and configuration. Load is as default. Two crew, no stores. By experimenting I found that when clean Vr is around 150 kts and trim 2 units NU is about right to put you in trim after lift off. For flap 25, Vr is around 130 and trim 0 units. Now I've tested it more today, rotation is better, it doesn't need a nose down input to stop it rotating but it is still rather sensitive. I would expect to need more pitch input at takeoff speeds. There is still a feeling that pitch rate is increasing. With stall, it is still pitching up and with nowhere near full aft stick. If I decelerate slowly (1 kt/s) with engines idle when the stall occurs the nose pitches up with no change in pitch input. If this is still worik in progress then fair enough, but perhaps that should be in the release notes. I see the engine still shuts down if you switch of the start system. That shouldn't cause that. It is only the start system that is off, not fuel and ignition. Any plans to fix this? Kevin |
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226OCU
Check-In Staff Joined: 30 Jul 2016 Location: Tasmania Points: 15 |
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Good work chaps.
I develop software for a living and can really appreciate the pressure you work under. I still love the Hawk...even more so now! I love the heavy workload that this aircraft gives - just like the real thing as they used to say. Smooth with a capital Smoo. Cheers, |
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Rick
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Paul Golding
P/UT Joined: 09 Sep 2013 Location: EGMC Points: 119 |
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As Paul said Kevin, there's something not quite right with your install. The SP1 flight model is light years away from the initial release (albeit with some work on the stall to be done).
I'm happily using flaps 1, trim 3, full fuel and pulling the nose up by 120 and holding the attitude until a smooth lift off just after. Gear up, flaps up, accelerating and trimming down. I've no idea what the Hawk is actually like to fly, but this feels like what I imagine a basic jet trainer should feel like. Flying circuits with landings and take-offs is now a real pleasure and I can happily have a nose down into the cockpit without fear of what I'll see when I look up :-) |
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Delta558
First Officer Just Flight FDE Developer Joined: 10 Jun 2012 Points: 383 |
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Are you sure the SP has installed correctly? I haven't checked the released package yet but with my final files the nosewheel has to be held up off the ground after rotation, there is no tendency to continue pitching upwards at all. What speed are you rotating at and what load (passengers and stores - these have a significant effect).
Regarding the stall regime, it's not finalised yet - priority was to get pitch, roll and yaw acting correctly and get the aircraft updated so that customers were able to fly it. However, you should not be getting pitch-up at the stall unless you hold the stick fully back. As stated in the manual, controls are still effective below stall speeds and whilst I have not finished work here you should certainly not be getting anything like the backflips from previously. Paul. |
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kevinh
P/UT Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Points: 211 |
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The update has done little about the way the aircraft pitches up when it stalls. I'm not a Hawk pilot but I can't imagine that behaviour being remotely acceptable in service.
It still feels like it wants to overrotate on takeoff. You have to initiate rotation then push forward to stop the nose rising too much. Kevin
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Speedstar
Check-In Staff Joined: 19 Jul 2015 Points: 17 |
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Hi Rich,
Apologies, please ignore my comment about the HUD, you're quite right it is there, I just had to adjust the seat height a little to see it! The landing light does turn on during the day but its just extremely dim/almost as if its just white paint, and can only just be seen in Spot view at the front but it doesn't shine properly like it does in the dark. I've heard others that are experiencing this too. |
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Rich
Just Flight Staff Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: Planet Earth Points: 8543 |
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Hi Dan,
The HUD reticle should be there. You might need to adjust the eye point if you're not looking directly through it. By landing light do you mean you expected to see a light cone emanating from the light during the day, or that the light doesn't appear to be turning on during the day? Thanks
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Speedstar
Check-In Staff Joined: 19 Jul 2015 Points: 17 |
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It's brilliant to fly now! my only annoyances that haven't been resolved in this are:
- the landing light (its non-existent in the day time) - and the gun sight isn't visible (in FSX anyway) in the VC but does in the 'HUD' view? Dan |
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