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Route addons needing other routes to be installed

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kevinh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Route addons needing other routes to be installed
    Posted: 11 Jul 2016 at 1:28pm
I find it very annoying that many train simulation routes require objects only available in other addon routes to work properly. For example U-Bahn Frankfurt was recently offered in the email newsletter at half price, but the minimum requirements are that the Munich-Augsburg Route must also be installed. So to take advantage of this offer (which I would have liked to do) I needed to buy another addon I didn't want for £24.99. At full price the two addons come in at nearly £50.

This practice would not be tolerated in flight simulation. Imagine a developer offering Gatwick scenery for FSX but saying it wasn't complete without having Heathrow scenery installed too. Or PMDG offering the 777X with the NGX as a minimum requirement. X-Plane has common object libraries for download that scenery designers freely share. Yet in Train Simulator there are many routes which you have to buy to get the routes you really want.

I think Just Trains should take a lead in stamping out this unfair practice. Developers selling routes on the site should commit to making sure products are standalone addons. Alternatively common objects shared by multiple routes should be made available for free download.

Kevin
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Myrm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Myrm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2016 at 7:30pm
Hi Kevin

I totally agree with you on this.  It is so frustrating to buy a route and then find you can't play many of the scenarios as you need to purchase other DLC.  I acknowledge however that JT do warn us in advance that some scenarios need other DLC purchased.
Myrm
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kevinh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2016 at 1:45pm
I see it's happened yet again with the LNER V2 Advanced release:

"Note: Some of the included scenarios require the European Loco & Asset Pack and routes which are not included with this V2 Advanced add-on (available to purchase from STEAM or Just Trains)."

Clearly scenarios for routes you don't own won't work. However, if some scenarios require additional rolling stock that should be included. It should not require the purchase of additional items.

Just Trains customer support, please comment.

Kevin



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SimUK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SimUK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2016 at 2:06pm
I'll ensure this feedback gets passed on to the rest of the team.

Train Simulator is an interesting one, as we find that a lot of people own a lot of content. Unlike Flight Simulation where you may just have a preferred plane which you fly around a preferred airport/country and not "needing" other content because it's just a plane flying around not performing a set scenario with other things flying around (Flight Sim can pull AI from a generic list, but it doesn't matter to FS if a certain aircraft isn't there - where as TS has consists and expects specific trains in specific liveries with specific formations of wagons/carriages/locos), in Train Sim people want to be able to use all of their stock (locos, carriages, wagons) on all of their routes, at least the ones that are suitable, and want to see scenarios included which use the add-on they've purchased - steam locos on charter specials along the new route they've just bought, or a new freight wagon being used in scenarios on routes they've owned for some time.

When it comes to the 'default assets', the very vast majority of people will already have these, as Rail Simulator, and then RailWorks for a few years, included them by default. They are standard assets which most of the Steam DLC routes includes anyway (without saying so) and are things like some common objects, common carriages, etc...   We're not allowed to include those two packs from Dovetail as they are their content, despite the fact most people had them as default items which were then not default items for newer TS owners who purchased after a certain date.

In some cases we've completely made new items such as the foliage, so as we don't need to had the dependency on old "default" items, but it's obviously not possible (or not good use of our time and your money) just re-making and re-selling basic default items all over again just to avoid the requirement of using assets which most people already have.

With the V2, I think it's some rolling stock which is included in some of the scenarios which makes the scenarios look more realistic (or more "busy"). The loco itself should still work fine without those "default" assets, it'll just mean you can't use the scenarios (or they may load with errors).
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kevinh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2016 at 6:05pm
Thanks for explaining the problem.

Your product information doesn't state that the assets could already be in your system, it just says you must buy the additional assets on Steam. I started with RailWorks so I might have had those assets at one time. When I upgraded windows I had to reinstall TrainSim from Steam so I don't think I still have the original content from RailWorks on my hard disk. I certainly lost routes I had previously. Is there any way to restore the original content?

Routes required for scenarios aren't the issue. If you don't have the route the scenario won't work and that's fair enough. It's about asset packs and other addons being required. Some scenarios not working in the LNER V2 addon wouldn't stop me buying it. But much as I would have liked to buy the Frankfurt U-Bahn route, I felt the requirement to own the Munich-Augsburg route as well was too much to ask. Is Munich-Augsburg one of the routes that used to be default? If so, charging Steam £24.99 for it now seems excessive.

Not being sure what common assets are included (but not mentioned) in addons is very confusing. How is anyone to know for sure what they have and what they are missing? The vast majority of train simmers may already have everything but what about the minority who do not?

Kevin
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ThomasAH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ThomasAH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2016 at 7:31am
Check the available DLCs, I automatically owned some of them when TS got upgraded and the new versions do not include the old things by default.
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kevinh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2016 at 9:57am
Thanks Thomas, I checked my account and I do have European Loco Assets available in my library. I'll check that in future should some other DLC is listed as required.

That still leaves the primary issue of payware routes referencing objects in other payware routes. If I buy U-Bahn Frankfurt I also need to buy Munich-Augsburg to have it display properly. It may be the problems are minor, but there's no information about what won't display correctly.

Kevin
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