'Painkillers Cause Asthma' |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Posted: 19 Sep 2008 at 3:19pm |
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Well, I know my kids were given Calpol when they were little, on doctors advice I might add. Not that often but they did get it. Most kids have I would have thought. My son has exzema, and my duagther hay fever, all linked to Paracetamol apparently. Not a definitive study though, more research needs to be done.
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VulcanB2
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Points: 13365 |
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Interesting!
Do the effects subside if you *don't* take them, or is it permanent? Best regards, Vulcan. |
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d9
P1 Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: High Wycombe UK Points: 884 |
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My daughter has asthma and sometimes eczema. (The two are related) She was a regular imbiber of Calpol - probably most kids are, so I suppose the connection could be real.
Rob.
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Do the effects subside if you *don't* take them, or is it permanent? I believe it's related to a child’s consumption while the immune system is still maturing, the effects being asthma, eczema and hay fever later on in life. No issue for adults I don't think Pointy. Once per month they regard as excessive, how many months that applies to I don't know. Rob: Yes my kids had their fair share. We can't say because our kids suffer from these aliments that it's true though, there may be other factors at work. Keeping children too clean, and not allowing occasional exposure to certain bacteria in soil has been linked to autoimmune conditions such as hay fever and asthma also, bathing too much is known to wash away good bacteria. The problem is that paracetamol is the only pain killer young children can take, aspirin is known to cause problems for some under 16. It’s only one study, more research is required by others. However, there has been other research that has suggested a link also. |
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Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
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I take such a study as merely an interesting coincidence until they describe medically the processes that cause Asthma due to paracetamol.
At least once a year - increased the risk by 61%... once in a year...! I find it hard to believe the evidence showed that level of cause.
Couldn't it just be the case that the children who would be more prone to develop asthma were also the ones who suffered from ailments earlier that meant they were more likely to be given paracetamol...?
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VulcanB2
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Points: 13365 |
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I tend to agree - maybe it's a symptom (getting ill requiring paracetamol), not the cause? Best regards, Vulcan. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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The study did span 73 centres in 31 countries, and I would be surprised if the researchers hadn't eliminated the scenario you suggest. There have been other studies that suggest a ‘possible’ link. But like I said above and always say with reports that pop up in the news, without randomized trials conducted by 'many' researchers, pier reviewed, it's not a proven link. Having said that, the guidelines are that paracetomol shouldn't be given to children with fevers above 38.5. That advice certainly didn't exist when my kids were young. If this were WiFi, microwaves or mobiles Pointy you would believe it. |
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Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
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I just have a hard time understanding how any study would give a 61% chance increase in the area they are studying due to a single occurence. They are saying that the evidence suggests that taking (I assume, since we are talking childrens dosage levels of paracetamol, e.g. Calpol) one 5mm spoonful of a paracetamol suspension in a year could be shown to increase the risk by 61% of developing asthma later on. I just find that statistic very hard to believe and be proveable. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Yes I know, that puzzled me a bit too, I put it down to my lack of understanding of what that 61% actually means.
When they talk about how likely a person is to succumb to these things they talk of 2, 3 4, 5 or more times likely, so I suppose 61% isn't actually that much of an extra risk. If they'd have said an extra risk factor of 0.61 times more likely, perhaps we wouldn't have been confused. Who knows, my grasp of anything mathematical is a sad joke, so don't laugh.
Like I keep telling Pointy, research appears in the media all the time, interesting and may well prove to be valid, but untill it's studied on a large scale by other centres and the same results achieved it' s merely interesting and a little worrying
I find it interesting that the world health organisation recommend it's use only with very high temperatures though, they must regard the studies done in the past as somewhat significant, to recommend this, just in case.
Taking the media out of the equation, this was what the researchers said...
Says it all really.
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VulcanB2
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Points: 13365 |
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61% increased risk based on what though? This is the problem with statistics.
If you have a 1 in 10,000 chance without taking anything, then this means you have a 1 in 3,900 chance. Best regards, Vulcan. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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61% greater risk than an individual that hasn't taken paracetamol during their early years, I presume.
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Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
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But I fail to see how any study can state that an increase of 61% greater risk was due to a possible single 5mm dose of paracetamol suspension in a whole year.
They are basically saying from that statistic that if you took two children and, over the course of a year, one child was given a single 5mm does of paracetamol whereas the other wasn't then the one who had taken the dose would have a 61% higher chance of developing asthma - from a single 5mm dose in a year...! That's a rediculous assumption.
What about the ailments (e.g. chest infections, coughs, colds etc.) that these children probably had which resulted in them requiring paracetamol - surely these are far more likely to be linked to the development of asthma that the treatment...?
And what's the alternative? Just like the farce that was the MMR causes autism scare a few years back resulting in children dying from measles, you'll end up now with mothers refusing to give paracetamol to their chidlren when they have fevers etc. with the possible result of such ailments escalating into something worse.
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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No idea magic, but I still think we are misinterpreting what that 61% actually means in real terms. Don't think it's as significant as you think. As Pointy said 61% compared to what?
What about the ailments (e.g. chest infections, coughs, colds etc.)
Such ailments don't cause eczema and asthma, eczema and asthma are related to the immune system, at present the theory is that the immune system isn't primed sufficiently during childhood. It's conceivable that a small dose of paracetamol could effect the immune system in such a way.
One things for sure, asthma and eczema is on the increase, there has to be a reason for trhyat, perhaps our use of paracetamol is the reason, who knows.
There’s nothing definitive about it yet, don't take the figures too seriously, just be aware there is a possible risk factor.
This is precisely why I say to take the research in the news with a pinch of salt, scientist ignore it unless it's pier reviewed and then replicated on a larger scale.
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Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
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I know that those ailments don't cause asthma but having asthma or a child who will go on to develop asthma, they are more than likely to suffer such chest infections earlier in life thus requiring the medicine in the first place.
Ashley suffers from asthma and is prone to chest infections (had one last week actually). He tended to fall foul of the same thing before he was diagnosed as having asthma because of a predesposition due to, for want of a better phrase, a week chest. Therefore he was recommended and given paracetamol but, to my mind, he was already suffering from such a condition that would lead to be diagnosed as asthmas before being given the drug. I.e. it was already in his 'makeup' that he was likely to suffer from it rather than paracetamol causing it.
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Can't comment on that magic, I'm not that knowledgeable about the condition. Hope Ashley's okay though.
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Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
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Yep, fine otherwise thanks.
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Glad to hear mini techno is okay magic.
it's eczema that seems to strike us, I have it slightly, my wife has it and Daniel has it on his legs. He's just broke out in nasty eczema on his eyelids, creams done the trick though.The last thing he wanted was to go to uni looking like a reptile.
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Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
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Well, guess what I'm suffering from at the moment... itchy eyelids...!!!
Had it a while back, not long after my dad passed away so we put it down to the stress of that but it seems to have come back this last few days. Was a real bu**er in work today. Spot of E45 earlier seemed to do the trick.
I used to suffer from it on my scalp when I was a kid, still prone to the itches now in fact and regularly use T-Gel shampoo on what little there is left up there... Sharon also has bouts of it with her fingers, mostly around the knuckle areas.
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Magic, this is getting bizarre. Eczema and asthma are connected, which begs the question, is it an inherited predisposition? The scalp condition, dandruff and similar skin condition to eczema can be fungal, when close to the hair, Nizarol shampoo helps. For me it's eczema though.
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Magic Man
Chief Pilot Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
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I have a fingerprint sized red patch in the middle of my sternum...
Get dry patches around the nostrils and in and between the eyebrow area... Is E45 safe for everyday use...?
Eczema and asthma are connected, which begs the question, is it an inherited predisposition? |
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