This forum is in read-only mode for archive purposes, please use our new forum at https://community.justflight.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Just Flight Products > DH.104 Dove & Devon
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - DH DOVE?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

DH DOVE?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
andresico View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Location: España
Points: 41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andresico Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2016 at 9:27am
I havent bought it and wont do so untill I see that this release is relatively bug-free. I dont want another Electra experience.
But I will buy it.

I have one question. I dont know if I need to clean my glasses and my pc screen, but the textures on the new screenshots look very dull and flat. i remember them as being more shiny and "alive"
any comments on that?
Andrés 
Back to Top
ATL98A View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT
Avatar

Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Location: Western Canada
Points: 171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ATL98A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2016 at 5:26am
Have just purchased the Dove out of sentimentality. Not quite sure just yet. Take off performance not quite as I remember.........Manifold, instead of Boost gauges. Cockpit a wee bit clinical. Perhaps I am being a tad picky, it is only a game after all.......but generally a reasonable release.
Back to Top
kevinh View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT


Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Points: 211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2016 at 10:41pm
The Devons have boost gauges and darker grey panel paintwork.

What is the problem with takeoff performance. Too good or not good enough?

I find the autopilot very sluggish in pitch, far too easy to dial in too much pitch angle demand and then it overshoots. Roll seems OK. But of course I have no idea how well the original worked so it might be correct.

Kevin
Back to Top
ATL98A View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT
Avatar

Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Location: Western Canada
Points: 171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ATL98A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2016 at 6:10am
Good question! My "sentimentality", and affection for the Dove originates in the '70's. I flew two types of Dove, the 1B, and the 6. To be more precise the Dove 6 that I flew on several occasions was in fact G-BBYA. The last time being December 12, 1977, according to my log book it was a "period" check by a another pilot. But I digress. I understand, and agree that time does play tricks, but I seem to remember the take-off run being a little more lively on the 6 than in the JF version Dove. I should imagine nothing like as good as the Dove 8, or Devon. In fact I have in the last 2 days found my old Dove checklist in a box in the shed........one that I liberated from Fairflight one day at Biggin Hill. Enjoy your Dove, she was a beautiful, and forgiving aeroplane.

Perhaps some FSX artist would care to create the "Riley Keegan Dove".......now that in its time was little pocket rocket!
Back to Top
Martyn View Drop Down
Just Flight Staff
Just Flight Staff
Avatar
Development Manager

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Huntingdon, UK
Points: 7615
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2016 at 9:50am
Quote but the textures on the new screenshots look very dull and flat

Which new screenshots are you referring to? The textures/liveries haven't been made less shiny or more flat.

Martyn
Just Flight Ltd
Back to Top
kevinh View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT


Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Points: 211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2016 at 10:01am
It was a daft question really as the JF Dove seems very slow to accelerate.

I'm not a pilot so I never flew one, but I have been flown in a few. The RAE used them as communication aircraft between the various sites and while working there I got a few trips in the Devon between Farnborough and Bedford. Pure joy, so when this addon showed up as under development it was a must have. All I need is the RAE raspberry ripple livery. If I could work out the paint kit I would paint it myself.

Cheers

Kevin
Back to Top
Bobcat View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 18 Jan 2016
Location: Birmingham UK
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobcat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2016 at 4:49pm
A lot of people have commented saying the Dove was a forgiving and docile aircraft to fly, but I am finding it very difficult to control in FSX at the moment, so I think the flight dynamics definitely need a tweek. 

It certainly seems to alter pitch too strongly on its own, and is hard to keep in level flight.  I would expect nose up with power and speed, and nose down with power off and speed dropping, but it exhibits exactly the opposite of this behaviour at the moment, to quite some degree.  I have been in a few deep tail end stalls at low speed that I have not been able to recover from, and when picking up speed it then wants to nose down very strongly.

I have raised a report so that the developers can have a look at tweaking it.  They will put it right at the first service pack I am sure.

As for the paint - I have looked at nearly all of the liveries now.  The external modelling and paintwork are exquisite, but I agree, whilst the windows are quite reflective, the paintwork does seem to lack the right amount of glint or reflection making them look flat, matt effect, and a little 2D. 

Some modellers overdo it on reflection, such as PMDG in my opinion, but this is a little too much the other way.  I use DX10 and have turned on SweetFX2 again to try to to put some life in, but whilst bloom is there off the white surfaces, reflection is very little. 

Like I say, most releases these days require a service pack and I am sure the developers will make it better.  It is a great model that's for sure.
Back to Top
andresico View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Location: España
Points: 41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andresico Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2016 at 9:10am
How does the Dove react when in level cruising  you lower the power and let it loose altitude.
Does it build up speed and level out by itself or does it just continue going down faster and faster?

My comments about textures are as Bobcat wrote, but since i havent bought this addon, I only referring to screenshots. But nice to get a comment. 

At this moment I´m on standby with this one. All the comments on trim here and on other forums make me wait. 
The AeroplaneHeaven/ Justflight Electra has issues with the trim as well. It can be made slightly better fidling with the Aircraft.cfg but it will never be a level flyer and always require yoke corrections or autopilot. Since there are many other things to like in the Electra I accept some of its issues as it is now after service pack 3 and I use it now and then. Before sp3 I never flew it.
Back to Top
Christopher Low View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT


Joined: 07 Nov 2011
Location: Ulverston UK
Points: 162
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christopher Low Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2016 at 9:22am
Surely all aircraft would start to "nose up" when speed increases?
Back to Top
Bobcat View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 18 Jan 2016
Location: Birmingham UK
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobcat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2016 at 11:29am
Originally posted by andresico andresico wrote:

How does the Dove react when in level cruising  you lower the power and let it loose altitude.
Does it build up speed and level out by itself or does it just continue going down faster and faster?

That is the thing.  At the moment it noses up quite badly with power off which brings on the stall really quickly.  it then goes in to tail first deep stall which is very hard to recover from, even with full power and full nose down elevator deflection.  

I pride myself on not having prangs in FSX.  Like most experienced users/flyers, I can land anything given a few minutes to test handling and speed range behaviour, but I had the Dove tail first into the runway on my first 2 attempts!  I am wondering if it is a balance thing more than flight dynamics, but I am not an expert on these things.  

Like I say, the developers need a chance to sort it out.  I love the aircraft in general but I just want it made more 'flyable'.
Back to Top
Ianbr View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianbr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2016 at 8:23pm
Hi all
I have to admit I enjoy flying the Dove/Devon . I noted your question Re Boost Guages, I have The Pilots Manual, Last update28.3.84. It mentions that in some aircraft the Boost Guages may be replaced by Manifold Pressure Guages. So this RAF Devon C2 may have been this way at sometime.
   If you fly by FRCs Boost pressure X 2 is added to 30 for an approximate translation to Manifold Pressure.
        Going to enjoy another flight this Evening
IanBr
Back to Top
Ianbr View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianbr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2016 at 9:19pm
Hi all, just finished an evenings flying and have found the above problems mentioned in Aircraft Handling.
 I did however note on this trip poor acceleration on take off with flaps one notch down. On looking at the flap lever i did notice it was indicating 50, and full flap 100. According to FRC one notch should be 20 deg of flap. Full flap should be 60 deg and used only for fields under 4000ft. Also I did feel that the C of G under full load was possibly far out. Also with it left at defaults it is overloaded yet the Devon is rated to a book figure of 9150lbs.
Back to Top
Bobcat View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 18 Jan 2016
Location: Birmingham UK
Points: 8
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobcat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2016 at 10:14pm
Yes, it is not the best aircraft to fly at the moment; it needs some work, but I am sure they will get on top of it.

I took the Heron for a spin today to compare, and whilst it does wander a bit vertically, it is a lot more stable and nicer to fly, and I can trim it up fairly well.

Judging by the look of the Heron windows and the fairly non-reflective finish paint textures, it looks like it was made by the same developer.  The model and virtual cockpit are a lot better on the Dove though, so it just shows how things have moved on in terms of standards.  I just wonder if there was a decent beta-tester on the Dove flight dynamics, as the issues were apparent to me within a matter of seconds.
Back to Top
andresico View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Location: España
Points: 41
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andresico Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2016 at 4:00pm
Beta testing... The Justflight/Aeroplane heaven Lockheed Electra was published with 3 out of 3 navigation instruments non-funcional. And it took 3 servicepacks to get them fixed. So thats the standard.

Has anyone tried using the aircraft.cfg and airfile from the freeware Devon:
Back to Top
Martyn View Drop Down
Just Flight Staff
Just Flight Staff
Avatar
Development Manager

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: Huntingdon, UK
Points: 7615
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2016 at 4:36pm
Thanks for all of the feedback so far. It has all been reported to the developer. Please continue to report any issues you encounter to the support team.
Martyn
Just Flight Ltd
Back to Top
ATL98A View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT
Avatar

Joined: 27 Jun 2009
Location: Western Canada
Points: 171
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ATL98A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2016 at 5:37pm
Thanks for the info. The Dove's that I flew for real had Boost, including G-BBYA. Despite having served in the RAF, in the '60's, and '70's, I never at any time came into contact with a Devon. Thanks for the reminder, but I was aware of the PSI/Hg comparison.
Back to Top
kevinh View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT


Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Points: 211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2016 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by Ianbr Ianbr wrote:

Hi all
I have to admit I enjoy flying the Dove/Devon . I noted your question Re Boost Guages, I have The Pilots Manual, Last update28.3.84. It mentions that in some aircraft the Boost Guages may be replaced by Manifold Pressure Guages. So this RAF Devon C2 may have been this way at sometime.
   If you fly by FRCs Boost pressure X 2 is added to 30 for an approximate translation to Manifold Pressure.
        Going to enjoy another flight this Evening
IanBr

I would have thought manifold pressure gauges were more likely to have been fitted by US customers.

Kevin
Back to Top
kevinh View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT


Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Points: 211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2016 at 6:07pm
Originally posted by Ianbr Ianbr wrote:

Hi all, just finished an evenings flying and have found the above problems mentioned in Aircraft Handling.
 I did however note on this trip poor acceleration on take off with flaps one notch down. On looking at the flap lever i did notice it was indicating 50, and full flap 100. According to FRC one notch should be 20 deg of flap. Full flap should be 60 deg and used only for fields under 4000ft. Also I did feel that the C of G under full load was possibly far out. Also with it left at defaults it is overloaded yet the Devon is rated to a book figure of 9150lbs.

In the aircraft.cfg file flap position 1 is 20 deg and flap position 2 is 60 deg. That's what matters. The flap lever tooltip seems to be showing percentage lever movement.

CG is about 20% as loaded by default. The biggest influence is the 64 kg baggage. What is CG limit in the pilot's manual? If it is too far aft it could well cause pitch stability problems.
Back to Top
Ianbr View Drop Down
Check-In Staff
Check-In Staff


Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ianbr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2016 at 7:01pm
This is direct from the Devon C2 Manual and may not be a lot of use,. The Datum is indicated by a plate on the port side of the fuselage 2.60 feet aft of the forward levelling peg.
Forward Limit:
(Item 1) At 9150 lbs - 2.46 inches Forward of Datum

(Item 2) Up to 8625 lbs - 3.70 Inches Forward of Datum
A note for for Item 1 and 2 says Varies linearly for intermediate wheights.

Aft Limit - 7.20 Inches aft of Datum

To keep within the above limitations it may be necessary to carry ballast and to limit the passenger/fuel carried.


Sorry it is the only information in the Devon C 2 Aircrew Manual. Ian Br
Back to Top
kevinh View Drop Down
P/UT
P/UT


Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Points: 211
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2016 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by Bobcat Bobcat wrote:

That is the thing.  At the moment it noses up quite badly with power off which brings on the stall really quickly.  it then goes in to tail first deep stall which is very hard to recover from, even with full power and full nose down elevator deflection.  

I pride myself on not having prangs in FSX.  Like most experienced users/flyers, I can land anything given a few minutes to test handling and speed range behaviour, but I had the Dove tail first into the runway on my first 2 attempts!  I am wondering if it is a balance thing more than flight dynamics, but I am not an expert on these things.  

Like I say, the developers need a chance to sort it out.  I love the aircraft in general but I just want it made more 'flyable'.

That's strange. I see the Dove nose down with a power reduction from a trimmed level flight condition.  It seems to me the real problem is pitch instability. If you pitch up slightly and release the controls from a trimmed condition the aircraft should go into a phugoid oscillation. The speed should reduce then the nose drops causing speed to increase and so on.  The JF Dove just diverges, slowing down and pitching up, eventually stalling. It's not a sim you can fly hands off for any length of time. Things get worse if you try the autopilot as that can't keep up with the pitch instability either.

Kevin
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down