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There was no global warming pause!

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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: There was no global warming pause!
    Posted: 05 Jun 2015 at 9:33am
After correction for ocean observations taken using different methods, and after the addition of new data... it seems there was no global warming hiatus, in fact warming is accelerating.

In fact the researcher's tried to break their own research by cheery picking the worst possible dates, and still there was a warming trend.

Should also be remembered that this is despite the influence of natural cooling events like volcanism, ocean heat uptake, solar variation, predominance of La Nina's. Without such natural variation we would be warming even faster.

Quote But the authors went further by trying to cherry-pick the start and end dates. For instance, they stacked the cards against themselves by purposefully picking a very hot year to start the analysis and a cool year to terminate the study (1998 and 2012, respectively). Even this cherry-picked duration showed a warming trend. Furthermore, the warming trend was significant.



Quote So what does this all mean? Well we knew the globe was warming. The best evidence has always been by measuring the enormous amount of heat going into the oceans. But what this new paper shows is that the warming in the recent years has not stopped and has not even slowed down.


With 2015 so far running hotter than any year on record, and with May temperatures expected to be in the 0.79–0.84°C anomaly range, it becomes increasingly likely that we will set another all-time record this year. With hope, this will end the discussion of the so-called “pause” or “hiatus,” which never existed in the first place.


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2015/jun/04/new-research-suggests-global-warming-is-accelerating

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jun/04/global-warming-hasnt-paused-study-finds

Don't worry though, the deniers will deliberately misinterpret the data, or just tell us it's all a big conspiracy.







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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2015 at 9:51am



“There is no slowdown in global warming,” Russell Vose, the head of the climate science division at the National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI), said. “Or stated differently, the trend over the past decade and half is in line with the trend since 1950.”


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/no-pause-in-global-warming/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevemac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2015 at 5:49am
http://joannenova.com.au/2015/06/seven-steps-to-adjust-the-pause-away-by-karl-in-2015/#more-42855

sea surface temperatures, adjustments, NOAA data, Karl et al.
temperature adjustments, NCDC
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2015 at 1:57pm
Yep, you can bet the deniers will concoct something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2015 at 2:10pm
A bit about your source...

Joanne Nova is a writer and blogger and TV host. She is NOT a climate scientist. She wrote a book. That book was promoted and distributed by the despicable, and highly discredited Heartlands Institute.

In short, she is a well known denier, with zero qualifications in climate science, promoted by a discredited right wing organisation.

Below is a fine example of her ignorance....

http://www.skepticalscience.com/How-Jo-Nova-doesnt-get-past-climate-change.html


Some more...

Quote Joanne "Jo" Nova (real name Joanne Codling) is an Australian writer, speaker, former TV host, anti-science presenter and a professional wingnut.[1] She maintains a blog which regularly regurgitates debunked climate denial myths, making her the poor Aussie's Ian Plimer or Andrew Bolt.[2] The site also has on its header the highly ironic phrase "Tackling tribalist groupthink." She has also written a handbook called "The Skeptic's Handbook," a brief pamphlet that reads like it was copy-pasted from another denialist site without the slightest whiff of actual research and peppered with pretty pictures.[3] The handbook concentrates on a few of the greatest hits, including: Satellites and weather balloons showing no warming (they do); the Oregon Petition "debunking" the scientific consensus (it doesn't); carbon dioxide lagging, not leading temperature change (ignoring Milankovitch cycles and feedbacks); the carbon dioxide effect being saturated (it isn't); and bad weather station siting (relying on the self-debunked work of Anthony Watts).[4]

In between regurgitating debunked climate myths, she often posts non-sensical fiscal arguments; then breaks into a general bitching session about anything including the denial crowd pleaser, the Gore bash fest.

She downplays the funding she and other denialists receive from the Heartland Institute and the Science and Public Policy Institute.


This one is perfect, should give you an idea what this stupid women is all about...

https://roymustard.wordpress.com/2013/05/31/conspiracy-theorist-jo-nova-denies-being-conspiracy-theorist/

Seems she and her partner latch on to every conspiracy theory known to man.


Listen the highly qualified scientists Steve... not known deniers, infamous for junk science, like, Jo Nova. No idea why she doesn't use her real name.








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevemac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2015 at 2:17pm
Concoct? 

Did you mean  "deliberately misinterpret the altered data"?

Karl and friends altered the historic record to fit the CO2-driven global warming theory. It's plainly unscientific. Robust my foot.

Just giving the other interested readers the rest of the story


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevemac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2015 at 2:23pm
Keep going with the character assassinations. Don't attack the message, go for the person. Top notch mate
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2015 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by stevemac stevemac wrote:

Concoct? 

Did you mean  "deliberately misinterpret the altered data"?

Karl and friends altered the historic record to fit the CO2-driven global warming theory. It's plainly unscientific. Robust my foot.

Just giving the other interested readers the rest of the story



Except that you gleaned that from a discredited climate denier, infamous for misrepresentation and fake science.

Your source is bad. Can you really take her seriously?

Can you trust her as a source of accurate information?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2015 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by stevemac stevemac wrote:

Keep going with the character assassinations. Don't attack the message, go for the person. Top notch mate

Steve...

The quality of the source is vital in these cases.

You wouldnt go to a random guy in the street and ask him to fix your hernia, no sir, you would go to a qualified doctor... yes?

Same applies here, if you want to know about climate science, don't ask a person who has been caught out misrepresenting the science before.

Do you see how this individuals character, and her past behavior, is vital information we need if we are to trust her as a source of accurate information?????

Steve... read the quote above, in particular the red stuff. The bit about her being funded by the right wing Heartlands Institute. 

Do you still trust her to tell the truth????????


Edit: I should add of course, that regardless of the latest research, there actually never was a hiatus or pause anyway. It's been referred to as that by many, but in reality it was defined as a "slow down" in the rate of warming, not a hiatus. The planet was deemed to be warming still but at a slower rate.

It's also important to add, that this is in accordance with what we would expect. From the begging of the industrial revolution to today, there have been peaks, troughs, and indeed pauses. This is as a result of natural variability. Precisely why climate scientists look at long term climate, not short term weather.

So in essence, the deniers claims that global warming isn't happening because there's been a pause, is based on a false premise. What this new research will do, if replicated by other teams, is further emphasize how ridiculous the "planet has stopped warming" claim is.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2015 at 5:23pm
Quote Karl and friends altered the historic record to fit the CO2-driven global warming theory. It's plainly unscientific.


Or more accurately... they made adjustments to some of the data to better reflect real modern data collection methods, compensating for the inaccurate data. For example, due to old technology and the poor ways tempreture was recorded around WW2.


It's plainly VERY scientific.


What did you expect them to do, leave data in place that they knew was wrong?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevemac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2015 at 11:30am
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/09/11/list-of-excuses-for-the-pause-in-global-warming-is-now-up-to-52/

An updated list of at least 29 32 36 38 39 41 51 52 excuses for the 18-26 year statistically significant ‘pause’ in global warming, including recent scientific papers, media quotes, blogs, and related debunkings:

1) Low solar activity

2) Oceans ate the global warming [debunked] [debunked] [debunked]

3) Chinese coal use [debunked]

4) Montreal Protocol

5) What ‘pause’? [debunked] [debunked] [debunked] [debunked]

6) Volcanic aerosols [debunked]

7) Stratospheric Water Vapor

8) Faster Pacific trade winds [debunked]

9) Stadium Waves

10) ‘Coincidence!’

11) Pine aerosols

12) It’s “not so unusual” and “no more than natural variability”

13) “Scientists looking at the wrong ‘lousy’ data” http://

14) Cold nights getting colder in Northern Hemisphere

15) We forgot to cherry-pick models in tune with natural variability [debunked]

16) Negative phase of Interdecadal Pacific Oscillation

17) AMOC ocean oscillation

18) “Global brightening” has stopped

19) “Ahistorical media”

20) “It’s the hottest decade ever” Decadal averages used to hide the ‘pause’ [debunked]

21) Few El Ninos since 1999

22) Temperature variations fall “roughly in the middle of the AR4 model results”

23) “Not scientifically relevant”

24) The wrong type of El Ninos

25) Slower trade winds [debunked]

26) The climate is less sensitive to CO2 than previously thought [see also]

27) PDO and AMO natural cycles and here

28) ENSO

35) Scientists forgot “to look at our models and observations and ask questions”

36) The models really do explain the “pause” [debunked] [debunked] [debunked]

37) As soon as the sun, the weather and volcanoes – all natural factors – allow, the world will start warming again. Who knew?

38) Trenberth’s “missing heat” is hiding in the Atlantic, not Pacific as Trenberth claimed
[debunked] [Dr. Curry’s take] [Author: “Every week there’s a new explanation of the hiatus”]

39) “Slowdown” due to “a delayed rebound effect from 1991 Mount Pinatubo aerosols and deep prolonged solar minimum”

[Before this new paper, anthropogenic aerosols were thought to cool the climate or to haveminimal effects on climate, but as of now, they “surprisingly warm” the climate]

42) Trenberth’s ‘missing heat’ really is missing and is not “supported by the data itself” in the “real ocean”:

“it is not clear to me, actually, that an accelerated warming of some…layer of the ocean … is robustly supported by the data itself. Until we clear up whether there has been some kind of accelerated warming at depth in the real ocean, I think these results serve as interesting hypotheses about why the rate of surface warming has slowed-down, but we still lack a definitive answer on this topic.” [Josh Willis]

43) Ocean Variability: [NYT article]

“After some intense work by of the community, there is general agreement that the main driver [of climate the “pause”] is ocean variability. That’s actually quite impressive progress.” [Andrew Dessler]

44) The data showing the missing heat going into the oceans is robust and not robust:

” I think the findings that the heat is going into the Atlantic and Southern Ocean’s is probably pretty robust. However, I will defer to people like Josh Willis who know the data better than I do.”-Andrew Dessler. Debunked by Josh Willis, who Dessler says “knows the data better than I do,” says in the very same NYT article that “it is not clear to me, actually, that an accelerated warming of some…layer of the ocean … is robustly supported by the data itself” – [Josh Willis]

45) We don’t have a theory that fits all of the data:

“Ultimately, the challenge is to come up with the parsimonious theory [of the ‘pause’] that fits all of the data” [Andrew Dessler]

46) We don’t have enough data of natural climate cycles lasting 60-70 years to determine if the “pause” is due to such natural cycles:

“If the cycle has a period of 60-70 years, that means we have one or two cycles of observations. And I don’t think you can much about a cycle with just 1-2 cycles: e.g., what the actual period of the variability is, how regular it is, etc. You really need dozens of cycles to determine what the actual underlying variability looks like. In fact, I don’t think we even know if it IS a cycle.” [Andrew Dessler]

47) Could be pure internal [natural] variability or increased CO2 or both

this brings up what to me is the real question: how much of the hiatus is pure internal variability and how much is a forced response (from loading the atmosphere with carbon). This paper seems to implicitly take the position that it’s purely internal variability, which I’m not sure is true and might lead to a very different interpretation of the data and estimate of the future.” [Andrew Dessler in an NYT article ]

48) Its either in the Atlantic or Pacific, but definitely not a statistical fluke:

It’s the Atlantic, not Pacific, and “the hiatus in the warming…should not be dismissed as a statistical fluke” [John Michael Wallace]

49) The other papers with excuses for the “pause” are not “science done right”:

” If the science is done right, the calculated uncertainty takes account of this background variation. But none of these papers, Tung, or Trenberth, does that. Overlain on top of this natural behavior is the small, and often shaky, observing systems, both atmosphere and ocean where the shifting places and times and technologies must also produce a change even if none actually occurred. The “hiatus” is likely real, but so what? The fuss is mainly about normal behavior of the climate system.” [Carl Wunsch]

50) The observational data we have is inadequate, but we ignore uncertainty to publish anyway: [Carl Wunsch in an NYT Article]

“The central problem of climate science is to ask what you do and say when your data are, by almost any standard, inadequate? If I spend three years analyzing my data, and the only defensible inference is that “the data are inadequate to answer the question,” how do you publish? How do you get your grant renewed? A common answer is to distort the calculation of the uncertainty, or ignore it all together, and proclaim an exciting story that the New York Times will pick up…How many such stories have been withdrawn years later when enough adequate data became available?”

51) If our models could time-travel back in time, “we could have forecast ‘the pause’ – if we had the tools of the future back then” [NCAR press release]

[Time-traveling, back-to-the-future models debunked] [debunked] [“pause” due to natural variability]

52) ‘Unusual climate anomaly’ of unprecedented deceleration of a secular warming trend[PLOS one Paper macia et al. discussed in European Commission news release here.]

Additional related comments from climate scientists about the “pause”

1) My University screwed up the press release & didn’t let me stop them from claiming my paper shows the “hiatus will last another decade or two.” [Dessler]2) “This [the ‘pause’] is not an existential threat to the mainstream theory of climate.” [Andrew Dessler]

3) “In a few years, as we get to understand this [the ‘pause’] more, skeptics will move on (just like they dropped arguments about the hockey stick and about the surface station record) to their next reason not to believe climate science.” [Andrew Dessler]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2015 at 9:57am
Hi Steve.

Once again you have made the same error.

As I said previously, it's imperative that you make sure that the source of information is a trusted one, that the quality of the information is good! But unfortunately you keep quoting from well known climate denier websites. Individuals that are funded by right wing organisations and the oil industry. Individuals who have been caught out lying, misquoting and generally misrepresenting the science!

Marc Marano you quote for example, who is infamous for fake science.
WUWT you quote from for example, a website devoted to denying climate change. Infamous for misrepresenting the real science. The website is run by a TV WEATHER MAN, not anyone with expertise in climate science. The website airs the views of well known MISINFORMERS like Christopher Monkton and Fred Singer. Watts is funded by the Heartlands Institute, who in turn are funded by big oil.


Your sources are beyond unreliable.


What is the point you are trying to make???

Again, there was no pause, or Hiatus, just a slow down in the rate of warming.

When climate scientists became aware of this, they came up with several hypothesis as to why. They are not "excuses" they are hypothesises as to why! That's how science works!

By simply regurgitating dodgy information from climate denier websites, you aren't doing yourself any favours to be honest.

Do you have a point to make? If so I'd love to hear it.







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2015 at 10:06am
I should add, and this is very important. Even if the so called Hiatus, or more accurately slowdown in rate of warming, did occur... It's still totally irrelevant in terms of long term, global rise in temperature.

The rate at which temperature has increased since the industrial revolution has not just slowed down in the past, it's paused and dropped too. But the overall long term trend has been a consistent rise as a result of our emissions.

Please remember, that it's a team of Federal Scientists that are saying there was no pause. That's one team. Until the results are reproduced by other teams it's of interest but not necessarily definitive.

This is why I'm baffled by the point of your post. Either way, hiatus or no hiatus, it's not relevant to long term climate change. It's quite laughable really how the climate change denier brigade have latched on to the so called hiatus to further their cause, when it actually does nothing of the sort.

Scientists look at global "climate" change, not weather. And climate is measured over many decades. They do this to filter out the short term reductions in temperature, and yes pauses too. They do this to filter out natural variability to reveal our contribution to warming.

Don't be fooled by WUWT or any of the climate denier websites funded by right wing organizations Steve. They are funded by mega powerful oil companies, desperate to keep selling us their despicable product.

And certainly don't listen to your Australian PM.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stevemac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2015 at 2:00pm
Martin,

I don't know why you're trying to 'teach' me about our climate warming. As I've said before I accept that it has warmed. As, I might add, do the absolute majority of what you call "Climate Change deniers". There are those out there that flat out deny any warming can be attributed to man but their numbers are few.

My contention is the degree of warming attributed to CO2 and ultimately the man-made portion of it.

Firstly,

"Please remember, that it's a team of Federal Scientists that are saying there was no pause. That's one team. Until the results are reproduced by other teams it's of interest but not necessarily definitive. "

   should have been added to your original post and headline. You gave the impression the outcome of the study was definitive.

Secondly,

The notion that big-oil is funding these so-called deniers (be it bloggers or disavowed scientists) is a myth perpetrated to deflect the attention from the message they convey.
Most disclose their funding sources, usually donations via the blog/website or ad revenue from wordpress. For example Anthony Watts writes:

"Q. Are you paid to blog?

A. No. There are some people who have this idea that because I put so much effort into WUWT that I must be on somebody’s payroll and that my stories are “pay for play” or something like that. Nothing could be further from the truth. Being a broadcaster, the surest way to kill a career is to run afoul of the FCC’s payola laws, and because I see blogging as just another style of broadcasting, I’d never consider “pay for play”.  Besides, most people don’t know how I abhor “dead air”, be it on radio, TV, or in blogging. I’m self motivated to keep it interesting and fresh. Plus, WUWT’s reach gives me a larger sense of purpose.

WUWT doesn’t run articles for hire, it is not nor has it ever been on the payroll of any company or organization (and that goes for me personally too), and it is managed mostly by myself with the help of about half a dozen volunteer moderators."

Please, if you have evidence of big-oil/right-wing funding for skeptics I'd love to see it. Otherwise, give the funding spin a rest. Clearly the ones in this climate debate mess to benefit are those very federal scientists you cited who are hardly going to look to hard for evidence that would bring down the massive CO2 gravy train and do themselves out of their lucrative funding and career.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2015 at 9:44am
Quote My contention is the degree of warming attributed to CO2 and ultimately the man-made portion of it.



There have been over 1000 peer reviewed scientific papers, that all agree that mankind is making a SIGNIFICANT contribution to global warming. Scientists aren't idiots. You and I are uneducated in this field, the majority of the deniers are uneducated in this field.

Mankind has been aware of the impact of our fossil fuel emissions since way back in 1896, when Arrhenius published the first calculation of global warming from human CO2 emissions. This stuff is far from new. We have research spanning almost 120 years.

Quote should have been added to your original post and headline. You gave the impression the outcome of the study was definitive.


True, fair point. Although in the post itself, nowhere did I claim it was definitive, in fact I said... " it SEEMS there was no global warming hiatus" but yes, fair point.

Quote The notion that big-oil is funding these so-called deniers (be it bloggers or disavowed scientists) is a myth perpetrated to deflect the attention from the message they convey.


Steve... you are kidding right? And you are aware that the nonsense spouted by the deniers is relatively easily countered with scientific fact. It's just misrepresentation and often downright lies. It's only the scientifically uneducated that fall for it.

Lets look at Exon Mobil...

Back in 2010, they funded climate change denier groups to the tune of $1.5 million. And this was despite the fact that they pledged to refrain from doing so.

http://www.desmogblog.com/exxonmobil-gave-15m-climate-denier-groups-last-year-breaking-its-pledge-stop-funding-denial-machine

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/environment/article2649265.ece

Greenpeace’s ExxonSecrets project has documented the nearly $25 million spent by ExxonMobil since 1998 to fund climate denier groups.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/27/8122913/exxonmobil-climate-change-denier-willie-soon

When questioned by the Times about the company’s previous decision to stop funding denier groups, Exxon chose to recycle its pledge yet again, announcing that it would stop supporting three of the four groups from now on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/us/ties-to-corporate-cash-for-climate-change-researcher-Wei-Hock-Soon.html?_r=0

A prominent academic and climate change denier’s work was funded almost entirely by the energy industry, receiving more than $1.2m from companies, lobby groups and oil billionaires over more than a decade, newly released documents show.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/feb/21/climate-change-denier-willie-soon-funded-energy-industry

Southern Company, one of the largest utility companies in the US, funded Willie Soon right up to 2015, to the tune of $400,000.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/25/fossil-fuel-firms-are-still-bankrolling-climate-denial-lobby-groups

Then we have the infamous Koch brothers, oil billionaires...

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/3/11/koch-brothers-fight-climate-funding-probe.html

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/polluterwatch/koch-industries/

The Koch Brothers have sent at least $79,048,951 to groups denying climate change science since 1997.

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/polluterwatch/koch-industries/

David Suzuki: Koch Brothers Continue to Oil the Machine of Climate Change Denial

Brothers Charles and David Koch run Koch Industries, the second-largest privately owned company in the U.S., behind Cargill. They’ve given close to US$70 million to climate change denial front groups, some of which they helped start, including Americans for Prosperity, founded by David Koch and a major force behind the Tea Party

http://ecowatch.com/2015/04/08/koch-brothers-climate-change-denial/

Then we have the Heartland Institute. I'm sure you've heard of them. Infamous for funding the deniers. And who funds the Heartland Institute? Big oil... $736,500 followed by $800,000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heartland_Institute

Interestingly the Heartland Institute is using the same strategy they used to deny smoking was harmful. Misrepresenting the science and discrediting scientists. And yes, back then they were funded by the tobacco industry.

And I'm afraid BP are guilty too, even now they are still funding the deniers...

Quote For one, BP still channels funds through its political action committee to climate science-denying US policymakers such as senator James Inhofe, chair of the senate’s environment and public works committee. While such direct contributions to politicians are a matter of public record, companies continue to sow climate doubt and influence climate policy in ways that are far more opaque.


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/25/fossil-fuel-firms-are-still-bankrolling-climate-denial-lobby-groups


Quote WUWT doesn’t run articles for hire, it is not nor has it ever been on the payroll of any company or organization (and that goes for me personally too), and it is managed mostly by myself with the help of about half a dozen volunteer moderators."


Ha, that me smile.

Quote However, Anthony Watts, a weathercaster who runs one of the most prominent anti-science blogs, Watts Up With That?, acknowledged Heartland was helping him with $90,000 for a new project.


And Heartland are funded by the Koch oil, billionaires...


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/15/leak-exposes-heartland-institute-climate

Here's some interesting facts regarding Anthony Watts...

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Anthony_Watts

Quote He does not have a university qualification and has no climate credentials other than being a radio weather announcer.

Watts is on the payroll of the Heartland Institute, which itself is funded by polluting industries.

Watts attended Purdue University from 1975 to 1982 but left without graduating.[2] A number of direct queries to Watts to find out if he graduated from college were rebuffed,[3] but a direct query to Purdue revealed that he did not obtain a degree from the university.

Some online lists incorrectly refer to Watts as "AMS Certified", but this is incorrect; the American Meteorological Society reserves its "AMS Certified" designation for its Certified Broadcast Meteorologists and Certified Consulting Meteorologists, and Watts posesses neither certification.


You can listen to amateurs with zero qualifications if you like, but I prefer highly qualified scientists that went to university, and unlike Watts, did indeed earn degree's and PhD's.







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MartinW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2015 at 10:41am
Quote Clearly the ones in this climate debate mess to benefit are those very federal scientists you cited who are hardly going to look to hard for evidence that would bring down the massive CO2 gravy train and do themselves out of their lucrative funding and career.


So, "not going to look hard" you say. Seriously? Do you really think that's how scientific research is conducted, they just twiddle their thumbs and don't bother to look hard?

That's quite an insult to the dedicated scientists who have worked tirelessly to gather the evidence. And ironic that you simultaneously deny that huge amounts of money have been donated to denier groups by the fossil fuel industry!

What was it you said in a previous post...

Quote Keep going with the character assassinations. Don't attack the message, go for the person. Top notch mate


Seems you have adopted the same strategy!

So, you favour the "scientist are all lying and just want to make millions from the funding" conspiracy theory? Do you see any climate scientists driving Ferrari's and mooring their yachts in Monaco. Know any that own Richard Branson sized islands?

There is a difference. And that difference is the scientific method. The data is out there, the peer reviewed papers are out there for others to read and dispute if they so wish.

The deniers have attempted to do that to valid research of course, but in such an anti scientific way it's pretty transparent and the deliberate misrepresentation obvious to all but the uneducated.

In short, the junk from denier websites like WUWT, run by uneducated bloggers, is easily countered with scientific fact. On the other hand, scientific research is subjected to scrutiny by the entire scientific community, and any discrepancies in regard to the method or result laid bare.

What makes me smile, is how deniers favour the scientific method when it results in iPads, iPods, PC's, mobile phones, medical research that saves their lives... but when it tells them something they don't want to hear, suddenly scientists are all liars trying to make millions from funding.

There's a massive body of scientific evidence that demonstrates that mankind is making a significant contribution to global warming. To claim that literally thousands of climate scientists, plus those in associated fields, are somehow engaged in a huge conspiracy to steal taxpayers money is ludicrous. It would be a conspiracy of epic proportions, the like of which the human race has never seen before, thus, utterly implausible.

From time to time, dodgy science appears, but that's precisely why peer review is so important.

Here s an interesting article for you to peruse on why, if scientists are in it for the money, they are doing it utterly wrong...

http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/02/if-climate-scientists-push-the-consensus-its-not-for-the-money/

Quote To sum up: climate research doesn't pay well, the amount of money dedicated to it has been shrinking, and if the researchers were successful in convincing the public that climate change was a serious threat, the response would be to give money to someone else. If you come across someone arguing that scientists are in it for the money, then you can probably assume they are willing to make arguments without getting their facts straight.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flyer10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2015 at 10:53am
Global warming deniers are like the flat earth society. No matter how much evidence is presented, they will stick their head in the sand.

Why are they always right wingers too?

Ironically, I live in one of the few places that will get colder due to global warming.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2015 at 11:18am
Quote My contention is the degree of warming attributed to CO2 and ultimately the man-made portion of it.



Would you care to elaborate of this? Lets get specific instead of claims like scientists are all greedy and just after the funding.

Why do you believe the degree of warming attributed to our CO2 emissions is an issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2015 at 11:25am
Originally posted by Flyer10 Flyer10 wrote:

Global warming deniers are like the flat earth society. No matter how much evidence is presented, they will stick their head in the sand.

Why are they always right wingers too?

Ironically, I live in one of the few places that will get colder due to global warming.





Theoretically, in the long term, the UK could too. I look at it as global energy increase as opposed to global warming. That includes energy that goes into weather systems. If sometime in the future the Atlantic Conveyor switched off.... very chilly hear in the UK.

Looks like there's a possibility we may have a maunder minimum on the way. In which case it certainly will get a bit chilly in the UK. Not enough to counter MMGW though.

I know what you mean, no matter how much evidence you show the deniers, they will never be convinced. They would rather believe Bob the weather guy on his website with no scientific credentials is right and scientists with PhD's are all wrong.

   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TangoEcho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2015 at 11:40am
Stop cutting down the trees!!!!!

Life too short, where is the GR1?
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