There was no global warming pause! |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Posted: 05 Jun 2015 at 9:33am |
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After correction for ocean observations taken using different methods, and after the addition of new data... it seems there was no global warming hiatus, in fact warming is accelerating.
In fact the researcher's tried to break their own research by cheery picking the worst possible dates, and still there was a warming trend. Should also be remembered that this is despite the influence of natural cooling events like volcanism, ocean heat uptake, solar variation, predominance of La Nina's. Without such natural variation we would be warming even faster.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2015/jun/04/new-research-suggests-global-warming-is-accelerating http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jun/04/global-warming-hasnt-paused-study-finds Don't worry though, the deniers will deliberately misinterpret the data, or just tell us it's all a big conspiracy. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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“There is no slowdown in global warming,” Russell Vose, the head of the climate science division at the National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI), said. “Or stated differently, the trend over the past decade and half is in line with the trend since 1950.” http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/no-pause-in-global-warming/
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stevemac
Check-In Staff Joined: 30 Jan 2014 Location: Melbourne Points: 14 |
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http://joannenova.com.au/2015/06/seven-steps-to-adjust-the-pause-away-by-karl-in-2015/#more-42855
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Yep, you can bet the deniers will concoct something.
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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A bit about your source...
Joanne Nova is a writer and blogger and TV host. She is NOT a climate scientist. She wrote a book. That book was promoted and distributed by the despicable, and highly discredited Heartlands Institute. In short, she is a well known denier, with zero qualifications in climate science, promoted by a discredited right wing organisation. Below is a fine example of her ignorance.... http://www.skepticalscience.com/How-Jo-Nova-doesnt-get-past-climate-change.html Some more...
This one is perfect, should give you an idea what this stupid women is all about... https://roymustard.wordpress.com/2013/05/31/conspiracy-theorist-jo-nova-denies-being-conspiracy-theorist/ Seems she and her partner latch on to every conspiracy theory known to man. Listen the highly qualified scientists Steve... not known deniers, infamous for junk science, like, Jo Nova. No idea why she doesn't use her real name. |
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stevemac
Check-In Staff Joined: 30 Jan 2014 Location: Melbourne Points: 14 |
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Concoct?
Did you mean "deliberately misinterpret the altered data"?
Karl and friends altered the historic record to fit the CO2-driven global warming theory. It's plainly unscientific. Robust my foot. Just giving the other interested readers the rest of the story |
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stevemac
Check-In Staff Joined: 30 Jan 2014 Location: Melbourne Points: 14 |
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Keep going with the character assassinations. Don't attack the message, go for the person. Top notch mate
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Except that you gleaned that from a discredited climate denier, infamous for misrepresentation and fake science. Your source is bad. Can you really take her seriously? Can you trust her as a source of accurate information? |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Steve... The quality of the source is vital in these cases. You wouldnt go to a random guy in the street and ask him to fix your hernia, no sir, you would go to a qualified doctor... yes? Same applies here, if you want to know about climate science, don't ask a person who has been caught out misrepresenting the science before. Do you see how this individuals character, and her past behavior, is vital information we need if we are to trust her as a source of accurate information????? Steve... read the quote above, in particular the red stuff. The bit about her being funded by the right wing Heartlands Institute. Do you still trust her to tell the truth???????? Edit: I should add of course, that regardless of the latest research, there actually never was a hiatus or pause anyway. It's been referred to as that by many, but in reality it was defined as a "slow down" in the rate of warming, not a hiatus. The planet was deemed to be warming still but at a slower rate. It's also important to add, that this is in accordance with what we would expect. From the begging of the industrial revolution to today, there have been peaks, troughs, and indeed pauses. This is as a result of natural variability. Precisely why climate scientists look at long term climate, not short term weather. So in essence, the deniers claims that global warming isn't happening because there's been a pause, is based on a false premise. What this new research will do, if replicated by other teams, is further emphasize how ridiculous the "planet has stopped warming" claim is. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Or more accurately... they made adjustments to some of the data to better reflect real modern data collection methods, compensating for the inaccurate data. For example, due to old technology and the poor ways tempreture was recorded around WW2. It's plainly VERY scientific. What did you expect them to do, leave data in place that they knew was wrong? |
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stevemac
Check-In Staff Joined: 30 Jan 2014 Location: Melbourne Points: 14 |
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http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/09/11/list-of-excuses-for-the-pause-in-global-warming-is-now-up-to-52/
An updated list of at least 29 32 36 38 39 41 51 52 excuses for the 18-26 year statistically significant ‘pause’ in global warming, including recent scientific papers, media quotes, blogs, and related debunkings: 2) Oceans ate the global warming [debunked] [debunked] [debunked] 3) Chinese coal use [debunked] 5) What ‘pause’? [debunked] [debunked] [debunked] [debunked] 6) Volcanic aerosols [debunked] 8) Faster Pacific trade winds [debunked] 10) ‘Coincidence!’ 11) Pine aerosols 12) It’s “not so unusual” and “no more than natural variability” 13) “Scientists looking at the wrong ‘lousy’ data” http:// 14) Cold nights getting colder in Northern Hemisphere 15) We forgot to cherry-pick models in tune with natural variability [debunked] 16) Negative phase of Interdecadal Pacific Oscillation 18) “Global brightening” has stopped 20) “It’s the hottest decade ever” Decadal averages used to hide the ‘pause’ [debunked] 22) Temperature variations fall “roughly in the middle of the AR4 model results” 23) “Not scientifically relevant” 24) The wrong type of El Ninos 25) Slower trade winds [debunked] 26) The climate is less sensitive to CO2 than previously thought [see also] 27) PDO and AMO natural cycles and here 28) ENSO 29) Solar cycle driven ocean temperature variations30) Warming Atlantic caused cooling Pacific [paper] [debunked by Trenberth & Wunsch] 31) “Experts simply do not know, and bad luck is one reason” 32) IPCC climate models are too complex, natural variability more important 33) NAO & PDO 34) Solar cycles 35) Scientists forgot “to look at our models and observations and ask questions” 36) The models really do explain the “pause” [debunked] [debunked] [debunked] 38) Trenberth’s “missing heat” is hiding in the Atlantic, not Pacific as Trenberth claimed 40) The “pause” is “probably just barely statistically significant” with 95% confidence:The “slowdown” is “probably just barely statistically significant” and not “meaningful in terms of the public discourse about climate change” 41) Internal variability, because Chinese aerosols can either warm or cool the climate: [Before this new paper, anthropogenic aerosols were thought to cool the climate or to haveminimal effects on climate, but as of now, they “surprisingly warm” the climate] 42) Trenberth’s ‘missing heat’ really is missing and is not “supported by the data itself” in the “real ocean”: 43) Ocean Variability: [NYT article] “After some intense work by of the community, there is general agreement that the main driver [of climate the “pause”] is ocean variability. That’s actually quite impressive progress.” [Andrew Dessler] 44) The data showing the missing heat going into the oceans is robust and not robust: ” I think the findings that the heat is going into the Atlantic and Southern Ocean’s is probably pretty robust. However, I will defer to people like Josh Willis who know the data better than I do.”-Andrew Dessler. Debunked by Josh Willis, who Dessler says “knows the data better than I do,” says in the very same NYT article that “it is not clear to me, actually, that an accelerated warming of some…layer of the ocean … is robustly supported by the data itself” – [Josh Willis] 45) We don’t have a theory that fits all of the data: “Ultimately, the challenge is to come up with the parsimonious theory [of the ‘pause’] that fits all of the data” [Andrew Dessler] 46) We don’t have enough data of natural climate cycles lasting 60-70 years to determine if the “pause” is due to such natural cycles: “If the cycle has a period of 60-70 years, that means we have one or two cycles of observations. And I don’t think you can much about a cycle with just 1-2 cycles: e.g., what the actual period of the variability is, how regular it is, etc. You really need dozens of cycles to determine what the actual underlying variability looks like. In fact, I don’t think we even know if it IS a cycle.” [Andrew Dessler] 47) Could be pure internal [natural] variability or increased CO2 or both “this brings up what to me is the real question: how much of the hiatus is pure internal variability and how much is a forced response (from loading the atmosphere with carbon). This paper seems to implicitly take the position that it’s purely internal variability, which I’m not sure is true and might lead to a very different interpretation of the data and estimate of the future.” [Andrew Dessler in an NYT article ] 48) Its either in the Atlantic or Pacific, but definitely not a statistical fluke: It’s the Atlantic, not Pacific, and “the hiatus in the warming…should not be dismissed as a statistical fluke” [John Michael Wallace] 49) The other papers with excuses for the “pause” are not “science done right”: ” If the science is done right, the calculated uncertainty takes account of this background variation. But none of these papers, Tung, or Trenberth, does that. Overlain on top of this natural behavior is the small, and often shaky, observing systems, both atmosphere and ocean where the shifting places and times and technologies must also produce a change even if none actually occurred. The “hiatus” is likely real, but so what? The fuss is mainly about normal behavior of the climate system.” [Carl Wunsch] 50) The observational data we have is inadequate, but we ignore uncertainty to publish anyway: [Carl Wunsch in an NYT Article] “The central problem of climate science is to ask what you do and say when your data are, by almost any standard, inadequate? If I spend three years analyzing my data, and the only defensible inference is that “the data are inadequate to answer the question,” how do you publish? How do you get your grant renewed? A common answer is to distort the calculation of the uncertainty, or ignore it all together, and proclaim an exciting story that the New York Times will pick up…How many such stories have been withdrawn years later when enough adequate data became available?” 51) If our models could time-travel back in time, “we could have forecast ‘the pause’ – if we had the tools of the future back then” [NCAR press release] [Time-traveling, back-to-the-future models debunked] [debunked] [“pause” due to natural variability] 52) ‘Unusual climate anomaly’ of unprecedented deceleration of a secular warming trend[PLOS one Paper macia et al. discussed in European Commission news release here.] Additional related comments from climate scientists about the “pause” 1) My University screwed up the press release & didn’t let me stop them from claiming my paper shows the “hiatus will last another decade or two.” [Dessler]2) “This [the ‘pause’] is not an existential threat to the mainstream theory of climate.” [Andrew Dessler] |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Hi Steve.
Once again you have made the same error. As I said previously, it's imperative that you make sure that the source of information is a trusted one, that the quality of the information is good! But unfortunately you keep quoting from well known climate denier websites. Individuals that are funded by right wing organisations and the oil industry. Individuals who have been caught out lying, misquoting and generally misrepresenting the science! Marc Marano you quote for example, who is infamous for fake science. WUWT you quote from for example, a website devoted to denying climate change. Infamous for misrepresenting the real science. The website is run by a TV WEATHER MAN, not anyone with expertise in climate science. The website airs the views of well known MISINFORMERS like Christopher Monkton and Fred Singer. Watts is funded by the Heartlands Institute, who in turn are funded by big oil. Your sources are beyond unreliable. What is the point you are trying to make??? Again, there was no pause, or Hiatus, just a slow down in the rate of warming. When climate scientists became aware of this, they came up with several hypothesis as to why. They are not "excuses" they are hypothesises as to why! That's how science works! By simply regurgitating dodgy information from climate denier websites, you aren't doing yourself any favours to be honest. Do you have a point to make? If so I'd love to hear it. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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I should add, and this is very important. Even if the so called Hiatus, or more accurately slowdown in rate of warming, did occur... It's still totally irrelevant in terms of long term, global rise in temperature.
The rate at which temperature has increased since the industrial revolution has not just slowed down in the past, it's paused and dropped too. But the overall long term trend has been a consistent rise as a result of our emissions. Please remember, that it's a team of Federal Scientists that are saying there was no pause. That's one team. Until the results are reproduced by other teams it's of interest but not necessarily definitive. This is why I'm baffled by the point of your post. Either way, hiatus or no hiatus, it's not relevant to long term climate change. It's quite laughable really how the climate change denier brigade have latched on to the so called hiatus to further their cause, when it actually does nothing of the sort. Scientists look at global "climate" change, not weather. And climate is measured over many decades. They do this to filter out the short term reductions in temperature, and yes pauses too. They do this to filter out natural variability to reveal our contribution to warming. Don't be fooled by WUWT or any of the climate denier websites funded by right wing organizations Steve. They are funded by mega powerful oil companies, desperate to keep selling us their despicable product. And certainly don't listen to your Australian PM. |
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stevemac
Check-In Staff Joined: 30 Jan 2014 Location: Melbourne Points: 14 |
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Martin,
I don't know why you're trying to 'teach' me about our climate warming. As I've said before I accept that it has warmed. As, I might add, do the absolute majority of what you call "Climate Change deniers". There are those out there that flat out deny any warming can be attributed to man but their numbers are few. My contention is the degree of warming attributed to CO2 and ultimately the man-made portion of it. Firstly, "Please remember, that it's a team of Federal Scientists that are saying there was no pause. That's one team. Until the results are reproduced by other teams it's of interest but not necessarily definitive. " should have been added to your original post and headline. You gave the impression the outcome of the study was definitive. Secondly, The notion that big-oil is funding these so-called deniers (be it bloggers or disavowed scientists) is a myth perpetrated to deflect the attention from the message they convey. Most disclose their funding sources, usually donations via the blog/website or ad revenue from wordpress. For example Anthony Watts writes: A. No. There are some people who have this idea that because I put so much effort into WUWT that I must be on somebody’s payroll and that my stories are “pay for play” or something like that. Nothing could be further from the truth. Being a broadcaster, the surest way to kill a career is to run afoul of the FCC’s payola laws, and because I see blogging as just another style of broadcasting, I’d never consider “pay for play”. Besides, most people don’t know how I abhor “dead air”, be it on radio, TV, or in blogging. I’m self motivated to keep it interesting and fresh. Plus, WUWT’s reach gives me a larger sense of purpose. WUWT doesn’t run articles for hire, it is not nor has it ever been on the payroll of any company or organization (and that goes for me personally too), and it is managed mostly by myself with the help of about half a dozen volunteer moderators." Please, if you have evidence of big-oil/right-wing funding for skeptics I'd love to see it. Otherwise, give the funding spin a rest. Clearly the ones in this climate debate mess to benefit are those very federal scientists you cited who are hardly going to look to hard for evidence that would bring down the massive CO2 gravy train and do themselves out of their lucrative funding and career. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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There have been over 1000 peer reviewed scientific papers, that all agree that mankind is making a SIGNIFICANT contribution to global warming. Scientists aren't idiots. You and I are uneducated in this field, the majority of the deniers are uneducated in this field. Mankind has been aware of the impact of our fossil fuel emissions since way back in 1896, when Arrhenius published the first calculation of global warming from human CO2 emissions. This stuff is far from new. We have research spanning almost 120 years.
True, fair point. Although in the post itself, nowhere did I claim it was definitive, in fact I said... " it SEEMS there was no global warming hiatus" but yes, fair point.
Steve... you are kidding right? And you are aware that the nonsense spouted by the deniers is relatively easily countered with scientific fact. It's just misrepresentation and often downright lies. It's only the scientifically uneducated that fall for it. Lets look at Exon Mobil... Back in 2010, they funded climate change denier groups to the tune of $1.5 million. And this was despite the fact that they pledged to refrain from doing so. http://www.desmogblog.com/exxonmobil-gave-15m-climate-denier-groups-last-year-breaking-its-pledge-stop-funding-denial-machine http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/environment/article2649265.ece Greenpeace’s ExxonSecrets project has documented the nearly $25 million spent by ExxonMobil since 1998 to fund climate denier groups. http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/27/8122913/exxonmobil-climate-change-denier-willie-soon When questioned by the Times about the company’s previous decision to stop funding denier groups, Exxon chose to recycle its pledge yet again, announcing that it would stop supporting three of the four groups from now on. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/us/ties-to-corporate-cash-for-climate-change-researcher-Wei-Hock-Soon.html?_r=0 A prominent academic and climate change denier’s work was funded almost entirely by the energy industry, receiving more than $1.2m from companies, lobby groups and oil billionaires over more than a decade, newly released documents show. http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/feb/21/climate-change-denier-willie-soon-funded-energy-industry Southern Company, one of the largest utility companies in the US, funded Willie Soon right up to 2015, to the tune of $400,000. http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/25/fossil-fuel-firms-are-still-bankrolling-climate-denial-lobby-groups Then we have the infamous Koch brothers, oil billionaires... http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/3/11/koch-brothers-fight-climate-funding-probe.html http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/polluterwatch/koch-industries/ The Koch Brothers have sent at least $79,048,951 to groups denying climate change science since 1997. http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/campaigns/global-warming-and-energy/polluterwatch/koch-industries/ David Suzuki: Koch Brothers Continue to Oil the Machine of Climate Change Denial Brothers Charles and David Koch run Koch Industries, the second-largest privately owned company in the U.S., behind Cargill. They’ve given close to US$70 million to climate change denial front groups, some of which they helped start, including Americans for Prosperity, founded by David Koch and a major force behind the Tea Party http://ecowatch.com/2015/04/08/koch-brothers-climate-change-denial/ Then we have the Heartland Institute. I'm sure you've heard of them. Infamous for funding the deniers. And who funds the Heartland Institute? Big oil... $736,500 followed by $800,000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heartland_Institute Interestingly the Heartland Institute is using the same strategy they used to deny smoking was harmful. Misrepresenting the science and discrediting scientists. And yes, back then they were funded by the tobacco industry. And I'm afraid BP are guilty too, even now they are still funding the deniers...
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/25/fossil-fuel-firms-are-still-bankrolling-climate-denial-lobby-groups
Ha, that me smile.
And Heartland are funded by the Koch oil, billionaires... http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/15/leak-exposes-heartland-institute-climate Here's some interesting facts regarding Anthony Watts... http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Anthony_Watts
You can listen to amateurs with zero qualifications if you like, but I prefer highly qualified scientists that went to university, and unlike Watts, did indeed earn degree's and PhD's. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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So, "not going to look hard" you say. Seriously? Do you really think that's how scientific research is conducted, they just twiddle their thumbs and don't bother to look hard? That's quite an insult to the dedicated scientists who have worked tirelessly to gather the evidence. And ironic that you simultaneously deny that huge amounts of money have been donated to denier groups by the fossil fuel industry! What was it you said in a previous post...
Seems you have adopted the same strategy! So, you favour the "scientist are all lying and just want to make millions from the funding" conspiracy theory? Do you see any climate scientists driving Ferrari's and mooring their yachts in Monaco. Know any that own Richard Branson sized islands? There is a difference. And that difference is the scientific method. The data is out there, the peer reviewed papers are out there for others to read and dispute if they so wish. The deniers have attempted to do that to valid research of course, but in such an anti scientific way it's pretty transparent and the deliberate misrepresentation obvious to all but the uneducated. In short, the junk from denier websites like WUWT, run by uneducated bloggers, is easily countered with scientific fact. On the other hand, scientific research is subjected to scrutiny by the entire scientific community, and any discrepancies in regard to the method or result laid bare. What makes me smile, is how deniers favour the scientific method when it results in iPads, iPods, PC's, mobile phones, medical research that saves their lives... but when it tells them something they don't want to hear, suddenly scientists are all liars trying to make millions from funding. There's a massive body of scientific evidence that demonstrates that mankind is making a significant contribution to global warming. To claim that literally thousands of climate scientists, plus those in associated fields, are somehow engaged in a huge conspiracy to steal taxpayers money is ludicrous. It would be a conspiracy of epic proportions, the like of which the human race has never seen before, thus, utterly implausible. From time to time, dodgy science appears, but that's precisely why peer review is so important. Here s an interesting article for you to peruse on why, if scientists are in it for the money, they are doing it utterly wrong... http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/02/if-climate-scientists-push-the-consensus-its-not-for-the-money/
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Flyer10
First Officer Joined: 03 Nov 2014 Points: 435 |
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Global warming deniers are like the flat earth society. No matter how much evidence is presented, they will stick their head in the sand.
Why are they always right wingers too? Ironically, I live in one of the few places that will get colder due to global warming. |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Would you care to elaborate of this? Lets get specific instead of claims like scientists are all greedy and just after the funding. Why do you believe the degree of warming attributed to our CO2 emissions is an issue? |
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MartinW
Moderator in Command Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Theoretically, in the long term, the UK could too. I look at it as global energy increase as opposed to global warming. That includes energy that goes into weather systems. If sometime in the future the Atlantic Conveyor switched off.... very chilly hear in the UK. Looks like there's a possibility we may have a maunder minimum on the way. In which case it certainly will get a bit chilly in the UK. Not enough to counter MMGW though. I know what you mean, no matter how much evidence you show the deniers, they will never be convinced. They would rather believe Bob the weather guy on his website with no scientific credentials is right and scientists with PhD's are all wrong. |
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TangoEcho
Check-In Staff Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Points: 11 |
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Stop cutting down the trees!!!!!
Life too short, where is the GR1?
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