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F27 first impressions

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sampa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sampa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: F27 first impressions
    Posted: 02 May 2015 at 9:18pm
After completing a few flights I now have a clear impression of what the F27 is like, both good and bad.

Good Clap

Installed first time with none of the issues some are having
Excellent frame rates on my medium system
Nice external model with good details
Very nice flying characteristics, especially when hand flying
Viewpoint adjust panel is a nice idea and works well
Good night lighting

Average Confused

Sounds just aren't a RR Dart *
Some switches seem to work in reverse
Manual is quite weak
Introductory price

Poor Cry

CTD from the sound gauge when pressing Crew Call (Ticket opened)
Fuel trim not modelled *
Pressurization not modelled *
Weather radar not modelled
Strange autopilot implementation (Speed/Height) *

All those marked * have been implemented correctly on freeware FS9 models before now so I think we should expect them on a payware release.

Overall I like how it flies, it looks good, and it runs very well on my system BUT........it's missing the details that make it immersive. One of the biggest issues with early turboprops was handling the engines correctly, something totally missing on the F27.

I'll be keeping it on my drive just to have an F27 with a VC, but it's never going to be my preferred olde worlde turboprop.

TTFN
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Mickel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mickel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2015 at 2:06am
On my first flight I was muttering about the things I didn't like.  On the second it started to grow on me.  It's about where I expected, however that's not where I was hoping.  However, it's an FSX F-27, so it's stays.  :)
I'm pretty happy about how it looks
Noise... Darts scream.  These merely whistle.  Not the same.
The artifical horizon has the same problem as the DC-8 - the pointer at the top goes in the direction of the roll, not staying fixed to vertical relative to the horizon as it should.  I found this surprisingly disorrienting in IMC.
It might be me and my approach speeds, but I haven't managed to mimic the distinctly nose down attitude these have on approach.  This might be driver error.
Looking a a couple of vids of departing Friendships, the main gear goes up before the nose gear moves - I presume the pneumatic system can't do all three at once.  Not sure whether FSX would allow it, but that would be kinda cool to model.
 
For me, the sound is the biggest let down.  The rest I can live with.  It'll log hours.
 
Mike
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flusi65 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flusi65 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2015 at 11:55am
Hello Flightsimmers,

I also did some short flights with the new F27.

So far, I did not had a CTD on my system. The flight dynamics are quite good.

What I experienced apart from the things mentioned in the first two posts is a weak lightning within the cockpit and outside. Flying by night the beacons illuminate the tail and the wings near the props in red. Furthermore, when I change from extrnal power to batterie power and vice versa, all the lights extinguish.

Cabin presssurization should also be modelled as metionded above.

The autopilot is really simple and aritifical, but for me it works well. You have to familiarise yourself how it works, ILS approach is fine.

The introductory price is fair, but due to the weaknesses a higher price is not justified.

Nevertheless, it is nice that such an old baby is modelled.

Stephan
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sampa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sampa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2015 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by flusi65 flusi65 wrote:


The autopilot is really simple and aritifical, but for me it works well. You have to familiarise yourself how it works, ILS approach is fine.


Hi Stephan

I know how this autopilot should work, I am a long term old turboprop user Smile

The Speed implementation is not correct, the F27 never had an autothrottle. The correct speed function uses pitch to control speed and would normally be used during climb and descent to maintain a fixed speed with a variable rate of climb/descent. The way it has been implemented here is as a full autothrottle. That did catch me out on my first approach, I kept wondering why my RPM were increasing and the speed wasn't coming down Embarrassed

Having said that, now I simply ignore the speed function LOL

I've already changed the sounds out and added a pop-up weather radar, and I had a very pleasant 200nm flight in the old girl last night, in some pretty appalling weather with a stable ILS approach to minimums. I did confirm the Crew Call CTD after parking up.

She's definitely a keeper, I just wish some of the details had been taken care of.

TTFN


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flusi65 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flusi65 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2015 at 1:53pm
Hi sampa,

thanks for your helfpful explanation. I also was asking myself is the full autothrottle is correct beause like you I have a couple of props (like ATR 72 or Dash8) and the procedure during climb is like you described. Hopefully the guys will solve the problems reported here in a future update.

Happy Landings.
Stephan
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RemcovanR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RemcovanR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2015 at 3:12pm
So... after a full reinstallation of my entire PC (FSX included) I must say the F-27 flies lovely. Only 1 minor issue with shift-e combination. The door(s) wont open
Regards, Remco
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snave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2015 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by RemcovanR RemcovanR wrote:

So... after a full reinstallation of my entire PC (FSX included) I must say the F-27 flies lovely. Only 1 minor issue with shift-e combination. The door(s) wont open

Check you aren't parked in a refuelling zone. That will ALWAYS prevent doors from opening. No such problems here, either under FSX or P3D, so it has to be a local issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Turambar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2015 at 4:53pm
I've bought the F27, because I think it's part of our Dutch heritage. Unfortunately I wanted to fly with the aircraft  twice, in both cases got a CTD. I hope there'll be a patch soon!

KR, Turambar
The Netherlands
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Haseen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Haseen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2015 at 8:05pm
I saw the real Fokker F27's in detail back in 1980's used by Biman Bangladesh Airlines. 

1. They mixed up the old F27 panel and new F27 panel.
2. The engine start panel and engine start procedure are not authentic.
3. AP-Heading Select mode-should not use beam on. Beam on is for a VOR radial or Localizer beam.
4. Prop rpm synchronizer on the pedestal is not simulated.

5. Although 2D panel for fs2004, freeware Mike Stone's F27 with Fraser McKay's panel is much better and authentic.
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sampa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sampa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2015 at 8:20pm
Remco

Check the manual, the doors all use Shift E + number. I'm away from my PC now so I can't be more specific, but it's somewhere in the manual.

TTFN
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flusi65 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flusi65 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2015 at 8:49pm
@Remco

Pls see page 13 of the manual, doors work with Shift+E+2, Shift+E+3 and Shift+E+4. Unfortunately (for what reason I don't know) the usual combination Shift+E does not work.

Stephan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adamski_NZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2015 at 4:47am
I think it depends on whether the model actually has a front PAX door. In the 100, you only get the cargo door (SHF+E+2) there, so (SHF+E+1) doesn't do anything. That said - you should be getting a message on-screen telling you the the [non-existant] exit is being opened. Tut, tut!

Adam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2015 at 10:14am
Originally posted by Haseen Haseen wrote:

I saw the real Fokker F27's in detail back in 1980's used by Biman Bangladesh Airlines. 

1. They mixed up the old F27 panel and new F27 panel.
2. The engine start panel and engine start procedure are not authentic.
3. AP-Heading Select mode-should not use beam on. Beam on is for a VOR radial or Localizer beam.
4. Prop rpm synchronizer on the pedestal is not simulated.

5. Although 2D panel for fs2004, freeware Mike Stone's F27 with Fraser McKay's panel is much better and authentic.

1: Manual refers to generic nature quite specifically. p31

2: How not?

3: Not so. Beam in this case refers to what we would today call LNAV guidance. The mode selector defines what the source is via the A/P Beam Mode Select switch which selects either a HDG mode or a NAV mode, dependent upon switch position.

4: Yes it is. This model of Dart was not equipped with an auto-sync. The gauge is an indicator to enable the pilots to synchronise the props by co-ordinated use fo the power levers. Set differing power lever setting sand the gauge `prop` rotates as it should. Get the RPM's sufficiently close and it stops. The Left engine was usually the master on Darts, so set the right to `chase` the left. It's an art, given the lag.

If you are going to pick faults, please try to make them genuine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flightsim481 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2015 at 10:47am
Hi,

I don't suppose you use EZdoK?  In any case, some third party add ons struggle with the shift + E + number key combination.  EZdok is the worst, but other add ons may cause the same issue.

I found a fix of changing the door key to a single unbound key stroke (I used x), and then x and 2, x and  3 etc works fine.

I have found that works with all my aircraft,

Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sidious78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2015 at 1:37pm
Good:
Panel looks nice
The visual model is nice
The flight model feels "right"

Bad:
Really, really disappointed about the sounds. It does sound like a F-27 when cruisepower is set. Otherwise, the RR Dart sound has eluded this release, especially from idle-mid range power set. And for me the sound of the f-27 is more than half the experience.

Bugs: Engine start/spool up is a mess. They go to full throttle when starting, and sometimes they get stuck.

The engine startup is not simulated correctly either. You can see the proper sequence here @ 5:50:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmKNjGO7d0k

Verdict: 5/10 (9/10 if they squash the bugs, and improve the soundset)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Haseen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 7:34am
Dear Sidious78:

Thanks for the F27 engine start video. Just flight F27 starting panel and procedure is biting me. More points:
 
1. At throttles ground fine (prop fine pitch), it should not produce any thrust. But Justflight F27 taxis with ground fine, does not produce propeller braking effect.

2. Altimeter baro setting is erratic.

3. Freeware Mike Stone & Fraser McKay's (panel) Fokker F27 and Fairchild F-27 (fs2004, 2D panel, AVSIM) are more authentic. I wish I could get them in 3D for FSX!

Regards,

Haseen Ahmad
Bangladesh.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wezel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 10:43am
Hi there just registered because of this plane, i bought it immediatly on release and first impressions are it doesn't sound right like some members allready stated.Flying model is ok'ish you don't feel much prop torque etc.It also looks a bit overpowered airplane is fully loaded and hauls a..!
I'm not sure but when i press F2 to start thrust reverse on landing roll it increases thrust not reverses thrust.
Also starting the plane just press control E and good to go...is not really realistic.
About the visual model its ok not to hard on the system,the upper wings could get a bit more detail but i like the panel and model alot.
I hope we get an updated version :)

cheers Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Haseen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 11:14am
Dear Wezel:

Fokker F27 Dart gas turbine engines don't have reverse prop pitch. It only goes to ground fine pitch which gives braking effect. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wezel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2015 at 11:24am
Originally posted by Haseen Haseen wrote:

Dear Wezel:

Fokker F27 Dart gas turbine engines don't have reverse prop pitch. It only goes to ground fine pitch which gives braking effect. 


i learned something new then Clap thx!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sharpas58 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2015 at 1:02am
hi people
want to know it`s roll-out characteristics on touch-down,,,got the viscount and that is shocking! like on ice, also cheesed off that some developers can`t be bothered with 2d panels,and appears like chucking in any engine sound they can get cheeply, seems a little pricey because of that me thinks , maybe mmmm?
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