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    Posted: 02 Dec 2014 at 6:01pm
Is it possible to set up a circuit until flight in traffic x (or 360)
without being a programming, Please do not tell me to read the Manual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2014 at 12:15am
"Please do not tell me to read the Manual". Why not?   The answer to your question is, YES, it is possible to set up a "Circuit Until" flight in Traffic X, without needing to be a programmer. And, dare I say it, that information can indeed be found in the manual. For what reason do you not want to read the manual?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pathfinder1` Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2014 at 11:58am
Yes Freddy I have read the Manual, I have managed to set up 208 flight plans, all working, so I must be doing some thing right, since I had a problem at EGPK Prestwick, I have set up about 40 flights from EGPK. all working,
But I still can not get a circuit flight to show, I am trying to use a airfield with no other aircraft near.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2014 at 1:45pm
Remember that, regardless of whether you are successfully creating TNG flights in Traffic X, unless you set your traffic levels to 100%, you may not see the flights because of the way Traffic X puts a 'percentage' value in the compiled file. So some flights will not appear. Test this by putting in 4 or 5 similar flights so that the chance of at least one of them appearing is high.
A long time FSXA and Traffic X user
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2014 at 1:51pm
I would also point out that I use a mixture of Traffic X and AIFPC, which is a freeware AI traffic creation program. Traffic X will give me some variation in my AI flights because, every time I compile, I will get a different set of 'percentage' values thus giving me a different set of AI aircraft that I will see. Any AI flights that I always want to see, I will create using AIFPC where you can put a percentage value in anywhere between 1% and 100%! (I always put 10% in here as my FSX setting is usually over 60%).
A long time FSXA and Traffic X user
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pathfinder1` Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2014 at 2:00pm
as I said Ray I have put in 208 normal flights, and every one of those flights are all working and all appear, I have today tried 3 circuit flights, but none work, it seems to be that I am the only one who can not get circuit flights to work. I know that if I try that test, all 4 or 5 flights will work,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2014 at 3:51pm
OK, you have added 208 flights A to B to A, etc. and you say that you can see all of them arriving and departing as per your schedules.

What are your traffic settings in FSX? Anything less than 100% and you shouldn't be seeing all 208?

Your TNG airfield is not one that is used by any of the 208? You haven't got any other AI that work OK at this airfield? If not, set one up at this field and see if it arrives and departs. Again I think you would need to schedule 3 separate AI flights to be sure that at least one will appear (unless of course you DO have an FSX setting of 100%).

If these don't work, there will most likely be something wrong with the airfield.

Programming AI TNG's - in the 'Leg data' box -
the 'Destination' may be the same as the 'Departure' but could be the same;
put in 'Departure time' - press Enter;
put in 'Circuits until' (rightmost box) - press Enter;
click 'Apply and Exit';
in the 'Flight Plan' box you must have at least 2 lines of schedules even if the 'Departure' and 'Destination' are the same;
don't forget the 50 minute separation between the last arrival time and the next departure time.
A long time FSXA and Traffic X user
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2014 at 10:55pm
Ahh. I am just catching up on this thread now ...

I believe I know why your circuit flights are not appearing ...

Firstly though, it's good to have a vibrant discussion in the Traffic X forums once again; it's been a while.

I can see now why you suggested "Please do not tell me to read the Manual". It probably would have been helpful in your original post to mention that you had read the manual and had successfully got other flight plans and traffic to work. Armed with that information, my original response would have been different; as follows ...

When I first got Traffic X, I had some issues with circuit aircraft not appearing. I emailed support and the response was that FSX places a higher priority on AI traffic where flight plans fly the planes to and from airports. Circuit traffic is given a lower priority.

In other words, if an airport is "busy" and has constant activity with a number of flights flying to and from it, then circuit flights are given less importance at that airport by FSX and therefore may not appear.

If you try setting up a circuit flight at a "non-busy" airport (an airport with ZERO other AI activity), then your circuit traffic should appear.

Further to this, the other information presented in this thread about the variation of 'percentage' value that determines which AI flights appear (or not) due to a randomness factor that's built in to the compile process, is all correct. Each separate compile does indeed have a randomness factor to it. So keep that in mind when working with flight plans and doing recompiles.

By the way, this "lower priority" for circuit flights that I speak of has nothing to do with the random 'percentage' value at compile time. It's not that. The "lower priority" for circuit flights is something else that's built inherently in to FSX's coding somewhere.

Now, having said all of this, I note that you do say you are trying to use an airport with no other aircraft near. But that's not to say that airport doesn't have any other AI traffic set for it? I am lead to understand that if an airport has so much as ONE plane that is set to fly to (or from) it, then the circuit traffic is unlikely to appear.

Finally, considering having just one normal AI plane flying to and from an airport is apparently enough to stop circuit planes from appearing, it is intriguing to know that if you do get circuit planes to work/appear at an airport, you can actually have multiple planes set to do circuits at this airport at all different times of the day ... thus making the airport "busy" ... Oh the idiosyncrasies of FSX.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2014 at 10:26am
Freddy,

welcome back -I thought you must be on holiday!

I am not sure that I can agree with all of your points.

In Traffic X, when setting up TNG flights at an airfield, you can get sometimes get 'errors' if too many landings are scheduled. Traffic X always produces a file "log.txt" which lists any problems that it finds when the 'Compile' is done. This is stored in the following location (or something similar depending on your installation) -
C:\Program Files\MS Games\MS FSX\Justflight\TraffficX\presets\data\schedules\compile\log.txt
The message is something like -
"Not enough slots for touch and goes at EGXX" (or where ever)
so even Traffic X has problems with TNG's.

For this reason, I use AIFPC to create nearly ALL of my TNG's at airfields/airports. Doing it this way, I always get ALL of my TNG's that I ask for. FSX has never caused any not to appear. When Traffic X has thrown up an error message (as above) and the TNG flight has not appeared, I have always used AIFPC to replace it and, low and behold, it appears as I want.

This is not to say that if you add too many, they cause havoc at busy airfields with other AI traffic not managing to land because of the ever circling TNG's. FSX ATC is not good at intermeshing circuit traffic with standard arriving traffic,.
Scheduling AI with short periods of TNG (less than 15 minutes) is also a useful way of populating small airfields with at least a couple of aircraft that will always be at the airport no matter when you fly into or out of it (better than adding static aircraft in the scenery).

So I would strongly recommend using the Traffic X AND AIFPC combo to populate airfields. AIFPC also has the ability to schedule the same flight every 2, 4, 6, 8 and 12 hours automatically without you having to write every line of code for the subsequent flights. You just write the first out-and-return flights and these will repeat as required.
AIFPC is really easy to understand and use once you get to understand the way the schedules have to be written.

So to sum up, I like and use Traffic X every day to improve my FSX experience but, like all software, it doesn't manage all that I want so that is when I go over to AIFPC (which, in case you don't know, allows you to schedule any of the aircraft in your 'hangar' - AI and flyable.)

Incidentally, in Traffic X, you may also like to schedule a flight to depart airfield A and return to airfield A with an arrival time say 15 minutes later. The plane should take off, fly away and return to land a short while later. This can be scheduled with VFR and IFR but with quite different results - but not always predictable!
A long time FSXA and Traffic X user
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pathfinder1` Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2014 at 12:36pm
I am still trying to get a circuit flight running,( I do not like being beaten) at the moment I am checking 8 airfields for parking and to see if I can get flights to operate between those airfields,
at the moment I am still wondering what TNG stands for,
and a bit on Manuals, creating flights, all end with.
Congratulations you have just created a flight.
not that you still need to compile it.
at least I may be learning a bit more, I will see if I can find that (log.txt)
and maybe think about AIFPC, any way, Thank you RayM and Freddy for all the advice you are putting in, When I first tried traffic X, I only found out from one of Freedys entries that I had to Compile.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2014 at 2:48pm
TNG = touch-and-go for those of us who are too lazy to type it all the time.
Sorry!

To re-iterate, every time you use the 'Flight Plans' section to add/edit any plans, you MUST click on the "Apply and Exit" button.
You MUST then go to the 'Traffic Movements' section, select which of the "Airlines/Carriers" you wish to create a compiled file (.bgl) for and click on "Compile Traffic X Flight Plans". When completed, this should create a new/revised file in your 'FSX\Scenery\World|Scenery' folder. If you have previously selected all of the Airlines/Carriers for an earlier compile, you would still select them all even if you have only changed entries in only one of the Airlines/Carriers.

When the manual says "You have successfully edited your first flight plan" or whatever, it means that you have modified/created a flight plan but YOU HAVE NOT COMPILED IT AND ALL OF THE OTHERS TO WHERE FSX NEEDS IT TO BE. You have to Compile all of your flight plans to a master 'set of flight plans' which is what FSX needs you do.The manual is not an exact science! Check the date stamp on your latest TrafficX.bgl file - it should be the date on which you Compiled it? If it isn't then I wonder where your compiled files are going to.
A long time FSXA and Traffic X user
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pathfinder1` Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2014 at 4:54pm
I tried setting up flights between any 2 of 7 airfields I picked out as suitable for circuits, all 7 flights worked OK,I deleted those 7,then tried to set up circuit flights from the 7, But no luck, all set up and compiled according to the manual. I have now given up on Circuits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2014 at 2:38am
Originally posted by RayM RayM wrote:

Freddy,   welcome back - I thought you must be on holiday!

Nope, no holiday. I'm always lurking; always here.


Originally posted by RayM RayM wrote:

I am not sure that I can agree with all of your points.

Hmmm. After reading your post I am now intrigued ...

It was Just Flight who told me about the fact that (apparently) FSX places a higher priority on AI traffic where flight plans fly the planes to and from airports, as opposed to circuit traffic which is (supposedly) given a lower priority.

But your post suggests this may not be the case.

You're probably aware that Traffic X uses FSX's own (DOS-based) Traffic Toolbox SDK to create and compile the AI files. I am certainly familiar with the SDK, its file formats, and its use. Traffic X is merely a fancy frontend interface that facilitates the creation of the appropriate files in the relevant Traffic Toolbox format(s), and then uses the Traffic Toolbox utilities to complete the process and do the AI compile. And, yep, I know about the LOG files that it creates.

Interestingly, I have plenty of circuit traffic configured in my Traffic X flight plans. Those of you who know me will be aware that I try to set up my Australian FSX experience to be as realistic as possible and there are number of airports in Australia where flight training (both military and civilian) takes place. I've got plenty of touch-and-go aircraft configured (in the Traffic X interface) for those airfields. But I do not recall once seeing the log message "Not enough slots for touch and goes at XXXX" in the log file. Hmmm.

Considering your post suggests that it is indeed possible to have touch-and-go traffic at airports where there are also other normal AI activities taking place, I am now encouraged to do some further experimentation on this subject matter. I'd like nothing more than to have touch-and-go aircraft doing their thing at these training airports. That would definitely add more realism to my experience as I fly myself to and from those locations.

I am now left wondering why Traffic X seems unable to add and create working circuit aircraft. Perhaps Just Flight were merely spinning me a line when they told me FSX places a higher priority on AI traffic where flight plans fly the planes to and from airports, as opposed to circuit traffic which is given a lower priority. To be honest, I doubt they were. FSX probably does do that. I don't really know. But with no circuit traffic appearing in my sim, despite me having circuit flight plans set up in Traffic X, that does appear to explain why. So I've never pursued it any further. But, based on what you're saying in your post, and based on the fact that Traffic X is a frontend which merely creates the appropriate files in the relevant Traffic Toolbox format(s), I am now not sure what's going on at all.

Hmmm. It looks like I may need to go back and revisit my Australian airports in Traffic X where I have flight plan setups with circuit traffic aircraft. Some experimentation is definitely warranted here.


Originally posted by RayM RayM wrote:

Scheduling AI with short periods of TNG (less than 15 minutes) is also a useful way of populating small airfields with at least a couple of aircraft that will always be at the airport no matter when you fly into or out of it (better than adding static aircraft in the scenery).

That's a good trick/tip ... that is, if I can get circuit aircraft to work.

My tip for populating those kinds of airports with aircraft is to set up one or more aircraft at the airport in question, but only set them to do ONE flight leg, in the absolute dead middle of the night, to a nearby airport (very short trip) and then back again. This way the planes are (effectively) always parked at and seen at the originating airport.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pathfinder1` Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2014 at 6:48am
I am getting a bit confused now about how circuits work, I had assumed that a circuit in traffic was the aircraft taking off then landing at the allotted time, but now you are saying about circuits and bumps (or touch and go) and yes my traffic settings are at 100%
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2014 at 8:40am
A "circuit" is something a real-life aircraft does when planning to land at an airport. The aircraft flies a specific traffic pattern, usually in the shape of a square, remaining close to the airport, and then lands. If you are getting your real-life pilots licence, you would perform many circuits, over and over again, usually doing touch-and-go landings (where you land, do not stop, but instead take back off again) so that you can repeat the circuit and continue to practice.

In Traffic X, a "circuit" is defined as an aircraft doing exactly what I have said above. The AI aircraft takes off, flies a square shaped traffic pattern, lands at the same airport and then takes off again (does a touch and go) ... and continues to repeat this taking off and landing at the same airport, over and over again, until the "Circuits until" time. In other words, if you are setting up circuits in Traffic X, you are setting the AI plane to repeatedly do touch-and-goes until a certain time of the day.

This is different from a "flight plan". A flight plan in Traffic X is where a plane takes off at a specific time of the day from airport XXXX, flies to airport YYYY, lands, stops, and parks. After the aircraft remains parked for a while (50 minutes or more as chosen by you, the user), the process is repeated with the aircraft subsequently flying another leg to a different airport, or, flying back home to the original airport. This aircraft does not do touch-and-goes. In other words, you are setting up journeys for the AI plane to fly from one airport to another airport. An AI plane can fly back and forth to and from the same airport, or it can fly to many different airports. The only rule is that for its final journey it must end up back at the very first airport that it originally started at.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2014 at 10:39am
Ray,

I have checked my circuit flight plans. They're set up properly. In my traffic schedule files I have a military aircraft, flight number 483, set to fly circuits at Amberley airforce base (YAMB), starting at 17:00 GMT and ending at 17:15 GMT. See below. My traffic percentage slider in FSX is set at 60%, and the value of 27 for this flight is well below that, meaning the aircraft should appear in the sim.

But, alas, it does not, despite there being no compiler errors for this aircraft in the log file. And I have checked both 17:00 GMT and 17:00 local. I've even used the SDK Traffic Explorer (one of the FSX SDK utilities I have installed in FSX) to see if the plane is there; still to no avail. I've also checked both 7:00 GMT and 7:00 local time, based on the numbers I see in the example below. This circuit plane is simply not there.

Amberley airport is a large military airport and has constant traffic flying to and from it every day. By definition, I would say it is a "busy" airport. If what Just Flight told me is true, then it makes sense to me that this circuit aircraft will not appear at this airport.

However, your post does seem to indicate I should be able to get this aircraft to appear. I am curious, do the circuit aircraft done using AIFPC have the same syntax as this one? Or, perhaps you can provide some other insight as to why this circuit aircraft may not be appearing/working?


AC1112,483,27,ONE_DAY,VFR
{
0700,YAMB,360,483,0715
}

=============================================

Edit ...

I've just had a look at the manual for the FSX SDK. Specifically the sections regarding AI Traffic. (Here is the link: Microsoft ESP SDK - Traffic Toolbox.) It seemingly confirms that the syntax above is indeed correct for a circuit aircraft. It also makes a couple of other interesting points. Namely ...

• To make an aircraft fly circuits at the destination, specify a circuitEndTime for that leg. If the circuitEndTime is less than ten minutes before the departure time of the next leg, the aircraft will not park but will fly circuits until the next departure time and then fly on to the next destination.

• The TrafficDatabaseBuilder will not allow you to schedule more than three aircraft at a time to be doing circuits at an airport to keep the traffic pattern from becoming overly congested.

=============================================


I've just checked, and I don't actually have more than three aircraft at a time scheduled to do circuits at the same airport. So, if circuit aircraft are supposed to work, even with other aircraft flying to and from that airport, mine certainly aren't ... and the "more than three" thing isn't my issue here. It seems to me that what Just Flight told me does appear to hold true; unless you, Ray, can point something out to me that I am missing ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pathfinder1` Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2014 at 12:51pm
RayM, you say,
Programming AI TNGs` - in the leg data box -
the destination may be the same as the Departure -but could be the same,
put in Departure time - press enter
put in Circuits until (rightmost box) press enter
click Apply and Exit,
in the Flight Plan box you must have at least 2 lines of schedules even
if the Departure and Destination are the same,
don`t forget the 50 minute separation between the last arrival time and the next departure time.
I do not understand the last bit about (must have at least 2 lines)
and the 50 minute separation.
Maybe that is where I am going wrong, (I will put it down to age)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2014 at 5:20pm
Freddy,

I have just done a fresh TNG set up from scratch.

Traffic X TCC >> Flight Plans >> VFR traffic Australia (TX_VFR_Aus)

Cessna 172 VH_AAA Flt No. 0 VFR
YAYE YAYE Dep 11:00 Ccts until 11:30
           Dep 16:00 Ccts until 16:30

Cessna 172 VH_AAB Flt No. 0 VFR
YAYE YAYE Dep 11:30 Ccts until 12:00
           Dep 16:30 Ccts until 17:00

Cessna 172 VH_AAC Flt No. 0 VFR
YAYE YAYE Dep 12:00 Ccts until 12:30
           Dep 17:00 Ccts until 17:30

Save & Exit then Compiled to bgl.
No error messages about these in log.txt.

In FSX, at YAYE at 08:00 local, all 3 are on field (had to set VFR traffic to 100% to see all 3).
All 3 take off and do circuits as required. All appear in Traffic Explorer also.

Looking at the file TX_VFR_AUS.tcc, I find the following lines -

Cessna C172SP Skyhawk     Cessna C172SP Skyhawk White,Green     VH-AAA        VFR     ONE_DAY               0     YAYE     YAYE     0_1:30     2:0     0     YAYE     YAYE     0_6:30     7:0
Cessna C172SP Skyhawk     Cessna C172SP Skyhawk Orange,Black     VH-AAB        VFR     ONE_DAY               0     YAYE     YAYE     0_2:0     2:30     0     YAYE     YAYE     0_7:0     7:30
Cessna C172SP Skyhawk     Cessna C172SP Skyhawk Used_Trainer     VH-AAC        VFR     ONE_DAY               0     YAYE     YAYE     0_2:30     3:0     0     YAYE     YAYE     0_7:30     8:0

(note that Traffic X changes the times to UTC.)

Added a 4th TNG schedule similar to others but this time the compile threw up an error message in log.txt -
"Unable to find slot for touch and goes at YAYE for Cessna ........"
so it is correct that the SDK does not allow more than 3 TNG schedules at an airport but I can add others using AIFPC of course.

Notice the large difference in Time variations used by Traffic X and FSX -
at YAYE Traffic X uses +09:30hrs whereas FSX uses +08:00hrs!

Can you check your lines in the .tcc files for your TNG flights to see if they match mine?
The .tcc files do not include any percentage figure - this is added during the compile.

The syntax for TNG files in AIFPC is - (all times in UTC)

AC#1501,N5487S,30%,24h,VFR,14:05:00,TNG14:45:00,50,R,0000,SEGU,19:05:00,TNG19:35:00,50,R,0000,SEGU

(aircraft,reg'n,percent,repeat,VFR or IFR,depart,arrive,height,reg'n or flt no.,flt no,arrival airport, etc.)

Let me know how you get on or any questions.

Ray

A long time FSXA and Traffic X user
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2014 at 5:31pm
Pathfinder,
sorry, I meant to say that the destination airport can be different from the departure airport but still have TNG's i.e. the plane takes off from field A and goes to field B where it does TNG's. Or field B could be the same as field A of course.
If you go from field A to field B then you probably know that you have to do the reverse flight so that the aircraft finishes back at the start field.
If you only go from field A to field A then you still MUST schedule a second flight similar to the Field A to field B situation - so there are always at least 2 lines of schedules.
If the end of first flight - end of TNG's - is 11:00 then the second flight must not start until at least 11:50.
Are you getting any clearer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pathfinder1` Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2014 at 6:47pm
RayM, The manual does not say any thing about having 2 lines of schedules, or did I miss that bit.
any way I set up a flight EGHD to EGDC and a return flight, both with circuit times. with a Grumman Gulf stream, at EGHD on the return it was cleared to land, but it over shot, message (is going missed) that happened 5 times, then I gave up, as each circuit took 12 mins, then I changed that flight to a Tiger Moth, changed times, and at EGHD it was cleared for touch and go, right traffic,runway 31, I watched it do 2 touch and go circuits,
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