This Knife wil blow you apart |
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GBL 
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Joined: 03 Apr 2008 Location: Hassocks. UK Points: 740 |
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 Topic: This Knife wil blow you apartPosted: 25 Jul 2008 at 3:11pm |
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They want to crack down on knife crime but this will blow you apart !!!!!!!!!!!
Can you imagine this on the streets.
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Aircraft Engines are the sound of Freedom.
ART |
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VulcanB2
Chief Pilot 
Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Points: 13365 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 3:18pm |
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HOLY COW.
It's simple: if you're caught carrying that knife, you get 10 years minimum (no parole before 10 years). If you use it, you get LIFE, to mean LIFE, with no possibility of parole. I'm all for the death penalty. Best regards, Vulcan. |
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mutley
Moderator in Command
Pilot Extraordinaire! Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: uk Points: 14898 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 3:57pm |
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The only deadly animals on our streets are the people with knives.
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Odai
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Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 4:10pm |
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What a waste of good water melon.
IMO the UK is waaaay to soft in terms of punishment. If you compare the crime stats of the UK with a country like Saudi Arabia, you'd be astonished. I'd certainly not be afraid to walk around on my own in the evening in SA. I would be in the UK. What's better, the "rights" of criminals, or the safety of innocent people?
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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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leesheeky
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Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Location: watford/ uk Points: 666 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 4:28pm |
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i agree with vulcan bring back death penalty
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emo god.
we live to die why not die to live fs9. |
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Rich
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: Planet Earth Points: 8543 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 4:40pm |
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Why not. It's done a great job in place like America. They have the death penalty and absolutely no problems when it comes to murder and crimes involving weapons...
 If they did then it would suggest that its not really much of a deterrent. To me having the death penalty serves no purpose. If somebody has been caught and convicted of a crime worthy of the death penalty then they will already have life without parole. Then being murdered by the state on top of that seems to me to suggest that murdering somebody as retribution for an act against you is OK? Something in that logic doesn't seem right to me! Murder is murder, whether its done in a knife fight or whilst strapped into a chair. |
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MartinW
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 4:56pm |
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Agree with Richard wholeheartedly.
When you execute a murderer you become a murderer yourself. We can't switch off our values when we feel it's convenient, it's either wrong or it's not.
The priority is to protect the general public, to prevent the perpetrator from committing the same crime again. A life sentence achieves that.
Yes it's true that in this idiotic country a life sentence doesn't necessarily mean that, and it's wrong, life should mean life.
As for Saudi Arabia, they can keep their interpretation of justice, barbaric acts like cutting peoples limbs off for stwealing a loaf of bread and flogging someone because they consumed alcohol belongs in the dark ages.
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ConcordeGuy
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Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: Peterborough UK Points: 3734 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 5:13pm |
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What's the UK going to do about it?
Knaff all, that's what they're going to do. Nothing! I never feel safe in this country, and the report on this knife will encourage more people to buy it! It's not going to look nice up your rear-end.... |
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Odai
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Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 6:17pm |
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As I've said, why should we care if it's barbaric? If it protects the population, who cares? What matters is it achieves results like nothing else! I'd much rather feel safe than be worried about the "human rights" of some criminal.
According to nationmaster.com, here are some murder stats:
UK- 0.0140633 per 1,000 people
SA- 0.00397456 per 1,000 people
That's probably unimpressive, but for stealing:
UK- 1.57433 per 1,000 people
SA- 0.0226361 per 1,000 people
Or even better, Qatar (which follows more or less with the same laws as SA):
0.00463472 per 1,000 people
You could leave a large amount of gold in your expensive car and not worry about leaving it unlocked in an open space in Saudi Arabia. In the UK, people are afraid to leave ANYTHING on display in the cars, even if they are locked.
EDIT: I will also point out that stealing/looting etc is more common in less developed countries (like Saudia Arabia, and not like the UK). Yet, the UK still comes out with the higher robbery rate.
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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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Odai
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Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 6:31pm |
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You know very well that isn't true. You shouldn't exaggerate like that.
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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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MartinW
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 6:38pm |
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As I've said, why should we care if it's barbaric? If it protects the population, who cares? What matters is it achieves results like nothing else! I'd much rather feel safe than be worried about the "human rights" of some criminal.
Odai, that's quite an appalling statement!
To severe a persons arm off for stealing a loaf of bread is totally barbaric, of course we should care. People that steal bread are usually starving, and society in many cases has let them down.
You seem to have totally missed Richards point. There is a death penalty in many of the most violent states in the world, and despite the severity of the punishment the murder rate remains high.
You don't seem to have a grasp when it comes to ethics either. Ethics are not something you can switch on and off at will, when you feel it's convenient, otherwise you don't truly hold those principles dear do you? You regard something as right or wrong, you do not regard something as right when you are in the mood and wrong when you're not.
It's very worrying that you believe it's okay to chop an old womans hand off for stealing food, despite the fact that she was starving.
Punishment should fit the crime, otherwise you may as well put people to death instead of giving them a parking fine.
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MartinW
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 6:40pm |
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You know very well that isn't true. You shouldn't exaggerate like that.
UK is waaaay to soft in terms of punishment. If you compare the crime stats of the UK with a country like Saudi Arabia, you'd be astonished.
So how would we be astonished then?
beheading or stoning is also in place I believe. |
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Odai
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Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 7:10pm |
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Martin, almost all of your argument seems to be based on stealing the bread. What you said is, quite simply, not true. When I said what I said I was not referring to the bread at all, I dismissed that straight away. It's a load of rubbish! People don't get amputated for stealing bread. That's what I meant by exaggeration, it's a known fact people get amputated for serious theft. It's a completely false (and very silly) myth they get amputated for stealing bread. Please drop that point!As I've said, what's better, our safety, or ethics in relation to the criminal? It is better to have a "lack of ethics" (I don't believe it is even that, there is nothing wrong IMO with executions, but that's just an opinion), than to allow higher rates of murder/theft etc to continue. Innocent people are more deserving of your ethics than the criminal.
As for the stats, they prove that what you call "barbaric" achieve results. The murder rate is far lower in a country like SA (which, BTW, has far more political problems, among other conflicts too).
Look up SA's basic law on wiki. It's all there I think.
The death penalty is not the only thing that plays a role as a deterrent, in countries with low muder rates anyway. There are many other factors to consider too. From what I understand, in the USA, a murder may not get you executed, it may just put you in prison. Have you seen the conditions of prisons in the US? I saw a documentary on it once, and, to be honest, I cannot see the punishment in being locked up places like that. The prisons in SA for example, are far less "friendly", which is what is needed. Also, what about the causes of murder in USA? What about gang crime? Drug dealing? Prostitution groups? These all cause problems which lead to murder. So, you can see, there are far more factors to consider than just the death penalty when looking at the murder rates. |
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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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needles
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Joined: 03 Apr 2008 Location: Scotland Points: 427 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 8:14pm |
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I completely agree with RAS and MartinW on this issue.
What if the death penalty was reintroduced in Britain and the authorities got the wrong person for the crime? Death is final and can't be undone, so it's a very very precarious path to tread. I do believe, however that people convicted of murder should get life imprisonment with total loss of rights, i.e no tv, radio, luxuries etc etc. My opinion only.
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ConcordeGuy
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Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: Peterborough UK Points: 3734 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 8:23pm |
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Then this should become fact, not opinion. |
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Magic Man
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: South Wales Points: 5336 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 9:14pm |
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I agree with Pointy on this, if you go out armed and are caught, 10 years no questions, no excuses. |
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Flightboy
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Essex, UK Points: 7396 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2008 at 11:09pm |
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Im all for the death penalty in the uk! and the comment about murder is murder is total rubbish! being given a injection and falling asleep is far better than what most murder victims indure
And keep them in prison for life? and why should i pay for that? Execute them and the family can bury it at their expense then we have one less killer to look after and less tax to pay to keep him alive! In my opinion if you kill another human you give up your rights to life flightboy |
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Odai
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Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Location: NW England Points: 3731 |
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Posted: 26 Jul 2008 at 12:46am |
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I'll assume you're talking about the idea of the executioner becoming a murderer, in which case yes, I totally agree with you. It has absolutely no foundation, it's garbage.
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ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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Flit
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Joined: 15 May 2008 Location: Auckland Points: 97 |
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Posted: 26 Jul 2008 at 5:45am |
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This knife should be illegal, and banned from production. I think its intended purpose is outweighed by the dangers of its misuse. I don't think hunters suddenly and desperately need to explode the organs of animals.
As for the death penalty, and capital punishment as a part of a judicial system; I oppose it. I agree, as other's have said, that it is barbaric. I am of the opinion that we do not have the right to impose death on another individual, or deform the body in any way.
Yes, it costs us money to maintain the life of the convicted, and that this should be addressed. And yes, maybe the prison system needs some alteration so as it can't be considered or relied upon so as to be a 'lifestyle', as some convicted criminals use it. But that is another issue as far as I am concerned.
The idea of cutting off a limb due to the theft of ANY value, is an ugly, outdated, gruesome and inhumane idea. Those who seriously think: 'we can stop a criminal from stealing again by cutting off his hand' are stupid, in my opinion. How does that help a thief make reparations to his life? Are we all so free of ANY wrongdoing ourselves that we have the right to decide to cripple another? How would you be suitably maimed for what mistakes you have not been caught for? No matter how small it may seem, I'm sure there is a part of the body I can think of to suit the crime. An earlobe for a parking infringement maybe?
Yes, we may think that we spend too much on helping these people. Our hard earned money seemingly wasted on the council and aid of 'scum'. But that is what makes us better, that is what makes us decent. Our patience, our self-control, our forgiveness are what I call modern morality. I will not be told what to think or do by ancient, ill-advised sages from the pages of dusty old religious scripts.
I do not think that we have the right to impose the same punishment a murderer thought his/her victim deserved. It makes us almost as bad as the convicted. Despite the heartache and anger at the loss of a loved one, we are better because we don't murder. We should not bring ourselves down to their level.
And, of great significance, the death penalty is irreversible, injustice would not be repairable, as said.
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MartinW
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Points: 26722 |
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Posted: 26 Jul 2008 at 9:21am |
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Martin, almost all of your argument seems to be based on stealing the bread.
Don't care if it’s an old lady or a wallet from someone’s pocket, as in regard to the case I linked to. To severe a limb of for pick-pocketing is obscene. We gave up that sort of punishment in the Not sure what you are suggesting Odai, but if you regard such punishments as fitting, and applicable to the it's a known fact people get amputated for serious theft. Yes, pick pocketing which is equally ludicrous. It's like trying to hammer a nail in with a nuclear bomb. The punishment is completely out of context with the 'alleged' crime. Thank god we live in the It is better to have a "lack of ethics" (I don't believe it is even that, there is nothing wrong IMO with executions, So you believe moral values are something we can switch on and off when we feel like it? And you see nothing wrong with taking human life? That excuse has been used many times in history, and I would imagine in Nazi Germany the same switching off of values prevailed. See my point now??? If you view killing as wrong, then you can not kill a criminal and suddenly deem it acceptable, because he did the same thing. You can not accuse a murderer of committing an unlawful act and then commit the same act yourself. 1. Executions have no place in a civilized society! Only the 2. Murder demonstrates a lack of respect for human life, that is why it is deemed abhorrent. A policy of state authorized killings is equally immoral. 3. State authorized killings epitomize the inefficiency and brutality of of violence rather than reason as the solution to difficult social problems. 4 When law enforcement experts where asked to rank the factors that curbed crime, curbing drug use, more officers on the street, longer sentences, and gun control were cited as more effective measures. In short, a violent public spectacle of state sanctioned homicide, one that endorses killing to solve social problems, is archaic and ineffective. The benefits of capital punishment are illusory, research has demonstrated that time and time again. |
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As for Saudi Arabia, they can keep their interpretation of justice, barbaric acts like cutting peoples limbs off for stwealing a loaf of bread and flogging someone because they consumed alcohol belongs in the dark ages.