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Terry2905 
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Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Location: Oman Points: 8 |
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 Topic: Stupid!Posted: 01 Oct 2013 at 6:26pm |
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Hi.
I really feel so angry with the response from my support ticket, that I felt compelled to post it on here! I asked a simple question, "is there a way to turn on the radios without starting the engines 1st?". The answer? Press Control+E? Umm! That starts the engines! WTF? Do they think I am some sort of moron! I had expected more of an educated answer! Rgds. Terry2905
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Scotty
Just Flight Staff 
Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Location: Oxford, UK. Points: 314 |
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Posted: 01 Oct 2013 at 7:52pm |
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Hi Terry,
Thanks for your posting and sorry to hear that you are angry. I am inquiring as to why you received an apparently banal reply and will do my best to ensure that moving forwards our support replies are more helpful than the one that you received. As regards the 146 I am not very familiar with its operation but generally speaking if the Battery master switch and any avionics master switch is set to ON then the radios should operate, however the 146 is a complex machine and you may have to operate other switches to get the radios to live. There is a good manual with the 146 and a full tutorial flight starting on page 30 that takes you through every stage from a cold and dark start so that should provide the answers for you. 32 and 33 cover the battery master switch and avionics master switch use. Hope that helps, Apologies once more. |
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Scotty
Just Flight Ltd. |
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Captain Coffee
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Joined: 26 Aug 2013 Location: N. California Points: 46 |
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Posted: 01 Oct 2013 at 11:02pm |
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Most aircraft will have a battery switch, as well as an Avionics Master switch, locate and pop those on, then turn on the radio power...all Are usually found on the 2d panel. Hope ythatthat gets yer comms on sir. / cheers
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Fresh Junkie of Haul Air.
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Jim Padgett
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Joined: 17 Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA US Points: 43 |
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Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 2:09am |
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Yep most do have a battery and and avionics switch, and on most aircraft they will power up the radios when turned on ...
But on my BAE146 they only make the radio digits light up... but that is all the radios don't work just light up...... until you start the engines ... I a soo glad I didn't pay full price for this... no power without engines doesn't let this aircraft work with FSCaptain so it gets dumped to the back of the hangar until it gets fixed... |
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Jim Padgett
If you never overcome you fear to leave the sight of the shore, then you will never experience the terror of being forever lost at sea. |
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Terry2905
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Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Location: Oman Points: 8 |
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Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 2:32am |
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Hi Jim.
Yes. Spot on. Radios are on, just not operating! Exactly what I explained to Just Flight support. I need clearance before engine start. I use both FsCaptain, and Pro-Atc/X, and you are right. Yeah! Glad I did not pay full price! That is still not an excuse for such a stupid reply from Just Flight support though! Rgds Terry
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Jim Padgett
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Joined: 17 Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA US Points: 43 |
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Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 9:36am |
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I wonder if this happens for everyone ?
My OS and FSX are fresh from scratch installs. I can't see something this obvious getting past alpha testing let alone into production. |
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Jim Padgett
If you never overcome you fear to leave the sight of the shore, then you will never experience the terror of being forever lost at sea. |
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Georgeb
Just Flight Staff
Joined: 26 Oct 2012 Location: Huntingdon Points: 125 |
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Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 11:38am |
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Pressing Ctrl + E (with the engines already started) is a troubleshooting procedure that we have been using for years. It is to test for an avionics failure brought on by the FSX limited battery life bug (this is not related to using the radios with the engines off just yet). If, with the engines already started, pressing Ctrl + E brings the avionics back online then the issue is indeed caused by the FSX bug resulting in a diagnostic of why the radios do not work with the engines off. If not then we would need to look at other possibilities.
It might have seemed like a 'stupid question' at first glance but hopefully now you can see that there was a logical reason behind the request.
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Terry2905
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Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Location: Oman Points: 8 |
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Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 1:44pm |
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Thank you for your response and for your explanation, but it still does not answer, nor address, my direct question? I did not say that the radios do not work! I stated that the radios do not work until the engines are started! I asked if there was a way to get the radios working "before" engine start-up! Pressing Control+E, when everything is already up and running fine, would prove absolutely nothing! This is obviously a known bug, and it needs to be looked at by your development team! I refer to this post http://forum.justflight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=19700&title=avionics-master Identical problem, with no response or resolution! From your further responses to my support ticket, it appears that you do know about this problem, as you have stated, "I am going to see if I can find another solution for you that does not involve
turning the engines on. Please bear with us." Rgds. Terry
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Scotty
Just Flight Staff
Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Location: Oxford, UK. Points: 314 |
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Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 2:33pm |
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Thank you for your reply Terry. I came into this issue late in the day with limited knowledge of the situation and thought the issue was that you did not know how to get the radios live before engine start, not that you know how to do that but the radios were not operating before engine start, so hence my reply of yesterday evening. I now understand the issue and have asked support to contact the developers to see if there is a resolution to this issue. I do not know how long it will take for a update to happen but in the meantime if you are unhappy then please do contact support once more and we can issue you with a refund.
Regards, |
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Scotty
Just Flight Ltd. |
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Terry2905
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Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Location: Oman Points: 8 |
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Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 6:59pm |
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Hi Scotty.
I do not know what your relationship is with Just flight support. You suggest a refund, but that is not what this is all about. I am not looking for a refund. I am looking to try and help out, by sharing my experiences, and to try and resolve a serious bug that obviously exists. I am pleased to hear that my rants have had some meaning! I do apologise for that, but it was being treated as someone who does not know what they are talking about, and the fact that I made it quite clear what my problem was, that was bugging me! I got wound up by the suggestion/request to press Control+E. I understand the explanation I had received, but they were asking me do something that was ridiculous. The radios worked fine after engine start, so it had nothing to do with resetting the start up procedure. I asked a very simple question, and made that question very clear. Is there a way to make the radio "live", before engine start up? I did not question that the radio was not working at all? It worked fine after engine start, but that is by no means realistic! No pilot would load passengers into an aircraft, or even attempt to fly, if he could not communicate with ground control and clearance delivery before pushback? Starting the engines, at the gate, before contacting clearance delivery or ground control, and before loading the passengers? I hope you see what I am getting at! It has nothing to do with the "bug" within FSX of battery power being low? What sort of nonsense reply from support is that? Umm! No other aircraft I have ever used has had that problem. Radios and all flight systems have to be live before engine start up. It is not a bug within FSX. It is a bug in the JS 146. Hence my comments that I am not a moron! Nice to know that this is being taken seriously though, and I hope that this problem can be resolved. It should be a very simple recode! Rgds. Terry |
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Shaun.
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Joined: 25 Jan 2012 Location: UK Points: 8 |
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Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 7:17pm |
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Terry chill out.
They didn't make the aircraft, CLS did. Check that you have the avionics masters and the stand-by inverters and standby generator on too. Mine was working with the APU on, APU gen on, and the two listed above, prior to engine start. Bring up the ATC window and try to contact ground, and see if that clears the red bars. Yes the systems are not accurately replicated, but that's CLS for you. Why not take it up with their support; they should be the ones to know.
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Slopey
Moderator in Command
AirHauler Developer Joined: 11 Jun 2008 Points: 8280 |
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Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 7:22pm |
Hi Terry, not that it'll help your situation, but the battery bug in FSX is very real, and would produce the behaviour you describe in other aircraft whereby you can't use radios via battery power. I've experienced it myself, in several forms including one where the APU wouldn't charge the batteries either, and starting the engines, or using FSUIPC to modify the battery life, or editing the aircraft.cfg to remove the reliance on batteries, is the standard resolution for the issue. So although JF maybe didn't get the right solution for you, the battery issue is real and would warrant checking. (Full disclosure - I'm not a JF employee, just pointing out that what they suggested wasn't invalid as something to try.)
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AirHauler Developer
For AH2 queries - PLEASE USE THE EA Forums as the first port of call. |
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Terry2905
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Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Location: Oman Points: 8 |
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Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 8:23pm |
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Hi.
I have never experienced the battery bug in FSX in any add on aircraft. Maybe because I do follow the start up procedures? I always have either external ac, or the APU running, so maybe that is why I have never seen the FSX battery power bug? I do know that QW 757 does not have "live avionics, or radios" on battery power alone! I have to start the APU, which is probably fairly realistic? Thanks for the info about FSUIPC and/or editing the aircraft.cfg. I will look into it. I never knew that option existed in FSUIPC though? If it was that easy though, why do Just Flight (CLS), not edit the aircraft.cfg file themselves, or tell me? Rgds. Terry
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Slopey
Moderator in Command
AirHauler Developer Joined: 11 Jun 2008 Points: 8280 |
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Posted: 02 Oct 2013 at 9:10pm |
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You need the registered version of FSUIPC to do it iirc. Editing the aircraft.cfg makes the batteries irrelevant (i.e. mystical always on power), so most add-on authors won't do that by default as they want the realism of batteries which do run down over time.
The bug is independent of startup procedures, but nobody has ever figured out why it occurs, hence all the "battery charger" utilities, or the solutions mentioned above. If you've never had it to date - excellent! However it's fairly widespread unfortunately. JustFlight are not CLS, just for clarification, JF only publish the CLS product. Same as AirHauler - JF can't change any of my code, I have to do that, but JF sell it for me. I'm sure once JF push it back to CLS, CLS will come back with a solution. In the meantime, you could try the CLS site also and see if anyone else has the same issue. |
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AirHauler Developer
For AH2 queries - PLEASE USE THE EA Forums as the first port of call. |
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Terry2905
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Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Location: Oman Points: 8 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 2:00am |
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Hi.
Thanks for all the info. Much appreciated. I will take a look at the CLS site. Yes, I do have a fully registered FSUIPC and WideFs. I will look into that also, but I do not think that the problem has anything to do with battery power though! Thanks again. Terry
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Terry2905
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Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Location: Oman Points: 8 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 2:04pm |
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Hi Guys.
UPDATE! Umm! Just bear with me, because this is complex, and with some weird end results! I finally noticed that FSX atc was actually live, but I have the volume turned down low, because I use Pro-Atc/X for comms! Pro-Atc/X would not respond, with all avionics on, and radios actually working (because FSX atc was broadcasting ATIS!). So, I did an engine autostart. During the 3rd engine start, Pro-Atc/x suddenly burst into life! Why only during/after 3rd engine start, I have no idea? That would have been fine, except for the fact that I need the engines off, for FsCaptain? So, I did an auto shutdown. Now I was cold and dark, and had also disconnected ground power. But? I still had full communication with Pro-Atc/X! I told you this had a weird outcome? Radios off, power off, but still had communication with Pro-Atc/X? I will let this post go now, as this is something that will probably never be resolved. It would actually be a workaround to the problem. Load FSX and the 146, do an auto start, obtain atis and then switch frequencies to clearance delivery, followed by an auto shut down, and then start everything up again with the normal start up procedures! I am not going to do that though! I will just forget about the 146 completely. But I did want to post this, just to share experiences, and who knows? Maybe someone else is having exactly the same problem, and I have developed a workaround, if needed. Whether CLS will look into the compatibility with Pro-Atc/X, I have no idea, but I very much doubt it! Apologies to the JustFlight team, but I hope that you can understand that this was a really weird one! Rgds. Terry
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Jim Padgett
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Joined: 17 Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA US Points: 43 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 6:33pm |
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Going from memory I can confirm similar behaviour. When I do the Ctrl + E for autostart, I immediately hear a sound change much like a pump or blower runninng, then the plane appears to be powered up..
I will verify this after I get home..
I have registered FSUIPC and have set the battery to never run down, so not having battery power isn't the issue.
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Jim Padgett
If you never overcome you fear to leave the sight of the shore, then you will never experience the terror of being forever lost at sea. |
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Jim Padgett
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Joined: 17 Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA US Points: 43 |
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Posted: 03 Oct 2013 at 10:13pm |
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OK I started Cold and Dark...
Followed the startup procedure and the engines started, but both GEN_1 and GEN_4 were inactive with annunciator lights over their switches in the ON position.. Did a Ctl + E ... Both Generators went to active status. LUA.0: [S] Watching new LVar: CLSB146_BATT_1_MODE = 1 LUA.0: [S] Watching new LVar: CLSB146_BATT_2_MODE = 1 LUA.0: [S] Watching new LVar: CLSB146_BATT_ACTIVE = 1 LUA.0: [S] Watching new LVar: CLSB146_GEN_1_ACTIVE = 0 LUA.0: [S] Watching new LVar: CLSB146_GEN_1_ACTIVE2 = 0 LUA.0: [S] Watching new LVar: CLSB146_GEN_1_AMPS = 0 LUA.0: [S] Watching new LVar: CLSB146_GEN_1_DC_ACTIVE = 0 LUA.0: [S] Watching new LVar: CLSB146_GEN_4_ACTIVE = 0 LUA.0: [S] Watching new LVar: CLSB146_GEN_4_ACTIVE_2 = 0 LUA.0: [S] Watching new LVar: CLSB146_GEN_4_AMPS = 0 LUA.0:  LVar: CLSB146_GEN_4_DC_ACTIVE = 0LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_4_SW = 1Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 1285 secs = 15.0 fps LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_1_ACTIVE = 1LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_4_AMPS = 40LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_1_AMPS = 40LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_4_ACTIVE = 1LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_1_ACTIVE = 0LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_BATT_ACTIVE = 0LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_BATT_2_MODE = 0LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_4_AMPS = 0LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_1_AMPS = 0LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_BATT_1_MODE = 0LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_4_ACTIVE = 0LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_BATT_2_MODE = 1LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_BATT_ACTIVE = 1LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_BATT_1_MODE = 1LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_1_ACTIVE = 1LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_1_AMPS = 40LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_4_AMPS = 40LUA.0: LVar: CLSB146_GEN_4_ACTIVE = 1LUA.0: [S] LVars watching list cleared... |
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Jim Padgett
If you never overcome you fear to leave the sight of the shore, then you will never experience the terror of being forever lost at sea. |
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Chainkicker
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Joined: 10 Oct 2012 Location: Devon Points: 9 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 10:13am |
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Jim, I find Gen 1 & 4 dont go active till the master start switch is moved to off once the engines are up and running.
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Jim Padgett
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Joined: 17 Oct 2008 Location: Richmond, VA US Points: 43 |
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Posted: 04 Oct 2013 at 11:29am |
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Thanks... I'll check that out ..
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Jim Padgett
If you never overcome you fear to leave the sight of the shore, then you will never experience the terror of being forever lost at sea. |
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