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freddy View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Nov 2008
Location: Melbourne, Aust
Points: 1339 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2013 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by Soaranden Soaranden wrote:

Yes, I recently experienced an unusual (or, as you say, "inventive") use of the "atc_airline=" line. I recently downloaded some additional liveries for the FSX default Cessna 206B. (As many of you already know, nearly all of the aircraft I use for AI flights are either user aircraft that I have downloaded/purchased or user aircraft that came with FSX/Acceleration). Each of the new liveries that I downloaded for the 206B were created by the same person, and each of the new liveries included an aircraft.cfg "atc_airline=" entry that contained the aircraft's registration number rather than an airline name. (No "atc_id=" entry was present). After using Traffic X to set up some VFR flights for the new liveries and to assign flight numbers for each AI flight plan, I found ATC would call out only the flight number that I had assigned. The inventive "atc_airline=" line containing the registration number, was ignored by ATC.

Yes, the "ATC_airline=" line containing the registration number would be ignored by ATC because the registration number DOES not have a valid match in the ATC database. So there's no airline name for ATC to say, and it thus simply skips that bit and says the flight number.

Yep, this would be an example of an "inventive" way to use the "ATC_airline=" field for your own other naming convention purposes.

-----------------------------

Another section of the airline.cfg file enables ATC to say the aircraft TYPE correctly ("Saab", "Fokker", "F-18", etc). Whilst that is not part of THIS discussion here, it's probably worth a mention. I posted some detailed information on this a while back in the Traffic X forum. Note that I said "Traffic X". The methods discussed in the post I've linked to below are about adding aircraft in to Traffic X ... the methods for adding aircraft in to Traffic 360 may be different. (As I do not have Traffic 360, I do not know if the methods are in fact the same, or not).

Here is a link to the post ... How to get FSX ATC to say/speak the name of the aircraft correctly
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FabioL View Drop Down
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Joined: 04 Aug 2012
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Points: 98 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FabioL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 7:15am
Thanks, this is all very useful.
I must confess that I've not kept up with the discussion as it went slightly above my capacity.
If the principle issues and fixes were to be re-listed as bullets, what would they be, with a view to eliminating the dreaded ZERO call sign, and if we're to search for blank entries in cfg files, what is the best way if achieving this?
Fabio
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freddy View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Nov 2008
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Points: 1339 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 8:16am
The original post was about ATC saying the word ZERO for flights. Or, specifically, how to FIX or STOP the ATC from saying the word "ZERO". It would be true to say that the thread has stayed basically on course, but has diverted a little here and there along the way.

For principal bullet points, I'd think that my opinion on what I'd consider to be the main point(s) MAY be different from what OTHERS who have contributed to this thread might think are the main points. I realise that would seemingly indicate there is probably more than one way to achieve the goal. Well, based on my experiences with AI, and the knowledge of how AI works in the sim that I have built up over time since the first day I ran Traffic X, I can assure you that yes, there is certainly more than one way to achieve the goal.

That said, for me, the main point (not points, plural) would be the one which best provides a definitive way to stop the ATC from calling out ZERO. And, for me, that would be this:

• Make sure that every single flight (ie, every single flight plan) in Traffic 360 is set with it's own unique flight number. Period.

This way you can be sure that you never hear "ZERO" again, regardless of whether a flight is IFR, VFR, an airliner, a GA plane, has correct or incorrect details entered in to the aircraft.cfg file, or, whatever. If every single flight has a flight number, then you can be 100% certain, in every case, that you will never hear ATC call out "ZERO".

OK, so that might be all well and good for me to suggest that, but the problem then becomes this: Well then, what's the easiest and best way to achieve that? Sadly, I don't have a simple answer to that question. Suffice to say, you can use Excel to open up the flight plan files and do your edits, or another fancy ASCII text editor such as Notepad++ ... and use the SEARCH-AND-REPLACE tools in such packages to achieve the results. But, as much as I am very good at using these packages in my IT work environment, that does not make me an expert who is able to provide a good method or guide on how to best achieve the goal. I recall doing the edits in Traffic X a long time ago, using a (clumsy) combination of Excel and the Traffic X interface. I don't remember the specifics of exactly what I did, but I do recall that it took me ages.

Perhaps others here will have some bullet points and suggestions to offer ...
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FabioL View Drop Down
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Points: 98 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FabioL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 8:36am
Many thanks; I was, some time ago, the thread OP.
Whenever I hear flight numbers without airline names, or the call sign zero, I fire up Super Traffic Board to get a handle on the aircraft in question, with a view to providing me with an airline name that does not confirm to EditVoicePak's airline names text file (thus, with a made up example, "Thomson Old Colours" would be easy to find and adjust, but zero does not define anything searchable. I will post a screenshot to show what I mean).
Populating all flight numbers is a never-ending Herculean task, especially if one then recompiles the T360 traffic BGL when adjustments are made, which essentially means adjusting textual data within the T360 database data files as opposed to the simobjects T360 installed data?
I have already forwarded the screenshot to Martyn at JF.
Basically, if JF are still following this thread, could you populate the fields according to the findings of this thread in the SP, and please post your thoughts on this issue?
Thanks,
Fabio
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freddy View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Nov 2008
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Points: 1339 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 8:49am
Originally posted by FabioL FabioL wrote:

Many thanks; I was, some time ago, the thread OP.

Hehe, ahhh yes, so you were!


Originally posted by FabioL FabioL wrote:

Whenever I hear flight numbers without airline names, or the call sign zero, I fire up Super Traffic Board to get a handle on the aircraft in question, with a view to providing me with an airline name that does not confirm to EditVoicePak's airline names text file (thus, with a made up example, "Thomson Old Colours" would be easy to find and adjust, but zero does not define anything searchable. I will post a screenshot to show what I mean).

I use EditvoicePack. I understand what you're doing there.


Originally posted by FabioL FabioL wrote:

Populating all flight numbers is a never-ending Herculean task, especially if one then recompiles the T360 traffic BGL when adjustments are made, which essentially means adjusting textual data within the T360 database data files as opposed to the simobjects T360 installed data?

Correct. You would edit the textual data within the database data files. Not the files in simobjects.

I don't have Traffic 360, but if it is like Traffic X, the simobjects stuff that you are talking about is where you'd find the aircraft.cfg files, and liveries. There's no need to edit those if your plan is to add flight numbers to each and every flight.

As far a compiling goes, at least with Traffic X, you take BACKUPS of all the files first, then make all of your edits, saving as you go ... and then compile ONCE only, when all the edits are done and finished. Editing the files to add flight numbers to ALL flights is Herculean as you say, but there's only one compile required, at the end, once the job is done (that is to say if Traffic 360 works similarly to Traffic X).
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Soaranden View Drop Down
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Points: 627 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soaranden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2013 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by FabioL FabioL wrote:

If the principle issues and fixes were to be re-listed as bullets, what would they be, with a view to eliminating the dreaded ZERO call sign, and if we're to search for blank entries in cfg files, what is the best way if achieving this?
Fabio


There seem to be two separate questions being asked here. The first question relates directly to flight numbers. The second question is more general in nature.

With regard to the first question, freddy and I have emphasized that it is an airline's tcc file or a country's VFR or armed forces tcc file that contains flight plan flight numbers. Examining a tcc file in a spreadsheet provides both the opportunity to spot missing flight numbers and the opportunity to add a unique flight number to any flight plan that has a missing or non-unique flight number.

Although the second question is unrelated to a tcc file's flight plan flight numbers, it's an interesting question, and I'll go ahead and provide an answer. Please understand that I am no longer discussing flight plan flight numbers. Per your second question, I am changing the discussion to blank entries in aircraft.cfg files (under the assumption that you were thinking "aircraft.cfg" when you mentioned "cfg" files...an assumption that I make because I had already shown how to spot blank flight numbers by opening a tcc file in a spreadsheet).

In all likelihood, the only blank or missing entries in aircraft.cfg files will be contained within the sections that describe each livery. Although a text editor could be used, I find AI-Aircraft Editor to be easier and faster...both to spot missing or incorrect data and to make changes to that data.

Here's a simple example:

Within AI-Aircraft Editor, I selected B737_800. (I use the default 737 as an AI aircraft, and I have 69 liveries for it). Selecting B737_800 within AI-Aircraft Editor opened the 737's aircraft.cfg file. I noticed that there were differences among liveries for the "ui_createdby" entry. Most liveries showed "Microsoft Corporation," but there were some liveries where "ui_createdby" was blank. There was also one livery that showed Microsoft Corporation plus the livery painter's name. I wanted to make "Microsoft Corporation," and only "Microsoft Corporation," show in the "ui_createdby" entry of all 737 liveries. I double-clicked one of the liveries in the AI-Aircraft Editor's upper window. This enabled me to edit the "ui_createdby" entry within the "General data" tab. With "Microsoft Corporation" present in the editable "ui_createdby" field, I clicked the "A" button to the right of the field, which, as the caption in the screenshot below indicates, updates "ui_createdby" entries for all liveries within the 737's aircraft.cfg file. The below screenshot shows the results immediately after updating. Of course, not everything is visible at the same time in the upper window. There are scrollbars that must be used to see everything.



Although I've read documentation stating that a backup of the aircraft.cfg is made before AI-Aircraft Editor makes any changes to the file, I haven't been able to find the location of backup files after making changes. Therefore, I suggest manually backing up the aircraft.cfg file before making alterations to it with AI-Aircraft Editor.

After using AI-Aircraft Editor to modify the 737's aircraft.cfg file, examination of the file in a text editor showed that "ui_createdby" entries showed "Microsoft Corporation" in the data for each and every livery. In cases where there had been no "ui_createdby" line for a livery, a "ui_createdby=Microsoft Corporation" line was appended to the end of the livery's data.

The latest version of Martin Grossman's AI-Aircraft Editor can be downloaded from:

The Owl's Nest - AI-Aircraft Editor

Dan
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RayM View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Nov 2012
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Points: 384 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RayM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2013 at 11:13am
Freddy,
your suggestion of putting Flight Numbers into every flight plan (even if you are setting up a VFR flight) would carry on the Just Flight thinking - they seem to have gone down this path - I can't dispute this method even though it is not logical to have flt numbers for VFR.

Soaranden,
regarding AI-Aircraft-Editor, my system ALWAYS creates a backup file with a ".owl" extension. If you go to the Settings Menu and put a 'Tick' in the "Auto Backup aircraft.cfg", this should do the trick for you.

FabioL,
as you will have realised, not only is using FSX to dash all over the world in your favourite aircraft a stimulating experience, but if you get into the peripherals of flight programming, re-painting and modifying airfield layouts, there are hours of joy (???) and frustration to be had by all.

Note for Just Flight's attention (if they look at this, that is) - would it be possible to put a code into each flight plan that forces the Compiler to put a low percentage figure into the bgl file so that the particular flight will ALWAYS show? I like to set up some special flights that I want to see every time I compile. At the moment , I use AIFPC to achieve this but Traffic X or 360 could also do this with a very minor change to the coding.

Ray
A long time FSXA and Traffic X user
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FabioL View Drop Down
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Points: 98 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FabioL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2013 at 12:40pm
Hi Ray,
I'm a long long long long term simmer, from IBM PC XT days, and I'm a lapsed PPL/IMC; flight sim is the closest that I can get to flying, so the better we can all make it with our combined know-how and determination, the better it will become. And it is very good indeed, IMHO.
I remember Hercules monochrome (green on black) wire frame; simply compare that to what we have now!
Best wishes, and many thanks,
Fabio
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Soaranden View Drop Down
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Points: 627 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soaranden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2013 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by RayM RayM wrote:


Soaranden,
regarding AI-Aircraft-Editor, my system ALWAYS creates a backup file with a ".owl" extension. If you go to the Settings Menu and put a 'Tick' in the "Auto Backup aircraft.cfg", this should do the trick for you.


Ray, thanks. Actually, everything in settings was ticked already. I think I know why I did not see the backup, yesterday (even though I had been looking in the correct location for the backup). I'm seeing the backup, today.

Dan
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