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Viscount landing drift.

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omnijet View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 1:59pm
I consider myself a capable, real life mil/pro pilot as well as an avid sim flyer.  The problem I have is that, on short final over the threshold, the Viscount slips and skids uncontrollably at yaw angles seemingly aerodynamically impossble on an airplane with a vertical stabilizer and functioning rudder. (like flying sideways).  A good landing is more luck than not.  I have tried different approach/landing speeds from slow to fast.  Steep to flat approaches.  Hold full flaps to rotation.  Nothing works.  Is there something wrong with the JF program flight characteristics or is my technique at fault?..  Any suggestions?
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hifly View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hifly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 2:35pm
Hi Omnijet, there's a coincidence. I've just been looking on the Viscount thread to see how many others have had the same problem and up you pop. Yes you are not the only one. In the now closed 'Viscount Urgent Patch' thread JF suggested sending a support ticket regarding this problem which I did in January and received a reply saying they had passed this on to the developer. Since then I've heard nothing. Even a statement from the developer to say whether they are working on it or not would help.
 
It's a pity, it is basically a good product, it flies ok, looks and sounds good, the cockpit's a bit fiddly, it's on the ground it's uncontrollable.
 
Please JF any news?
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omnijet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omnijet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2013 at 9:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omnijet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2013 at 1:13am
Hello, Hifly.  It took some time, but I think I have worked it out.  Here goes:  Fly a normal circuit and establish yourself on a 1000' AGL long final with an airspeed of about 125/130 KIAS, gear down and 75% flaps.  Stabilize your approach and keep the runway in the center of the left pilot's window.  Make sure your view is slewed straight with the runway perpendicular to the yoke (which you should remove from the view).  Important: maintain directional control with ailerons only... no rudder.  It's counterintuitive, but it works.  Bleed off airspeed to 110 knots.  Chop power at threshhold and lower full flaps 50' AGL before touchdown.  As soon as you land, push the nose down immediately to land the nose wheel and maintain directional control with it.  Start braking immediately and evenly. I have concluded that the rudder is overly effective at approach speeds causing the drift and yaw and under effective at landing speeds preventing you from correcting it.  Fight the impulse to use rudder on final.  Keep it smooth.  This airplane does not like exagerated control inputs.  I have made a dozen consistent good landings using this approach.  I have the A2A Accu-Feel system that gives you a tire squawk so I know when my main gear and nose gear are on the ground. It helps a lot.  Any questions or problems, let me know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hifly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2013 at 10:13am
Hi Omnijet, thanks for that I'll give it a try although taxiing might still be a problem. Also the manual says set the handbrake but it whereabouts is not indicated in the manual and I can't find it in the cockpit. Apart from the ground handling and no handbrake and no instructions on prop pitch I do like this bird. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omnijet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2013 at 11:38am
First of all, the manual is for a real airplane which this, of course, is not.  If you need to set the parking brake, press Ctl (.)  on your keyboard and press (.) or the brakes to release it.  On propeller pitch... the Rolls-Royce Dart engine had a 2 position Dowty-Rotol prop.  Flight and feather.  The power levers set the pitch automatically with power changes to optimum angles.  You see RPM change (top row of engine instruments) as you add/reduce torque.  Copilot would pull them back to feather at shutdown to get the free-spinning props to stop turning for ground safety.  Remember, these are turbine engines, not piston.  For ground steering control use the rudder.  Trying to use the tiller wheels is difficult since the runway and tillers are hard to capture in the same view.  (I use a .60 or .50 VC ratio).  I don't have that problem since I have the Saitek rudder/brakes plus a yoke with 2 quadrants so its easy to steer and control all engines independently.  Try taxiing out with just engines #2 and #3 lit.  That's what was done with the real airplane.  All four tend to overpower the aircraft even at idle and will require continual braking which is not good and the high-speed taxiing might be contributing to your steering problem.  Unlike today's turboprops, these Darts did not have a beta range (zero thrust setting). Start #1 and #4 before getting takeoff clearance.  Shut the outboards down and feather for taxi in.  Again, easier with quadrants. Good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hifly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2013 at 6:29pm
Thanks again omnijet, I will give it a go soon but at the moment I'm enjoying JFs' Comet got at this weekends' sale. It's rather good, there had been mixed reviews and slightly negative comments when it first came out so I held off but it is a classic and at half price I couldn't resist.
 
I hope a wildly careering Viscount doesn't crash into it!
 
Best Regards,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Midnight Music Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 2:36am
Also having great problems keeping the craft straight during final on to the runway. Tried everything you mentioned. FDE seems to be messed up. Nothing works.

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omnijet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 3:04am
Lee, I have tried to explain at length the proper techniques for flying this airplane. I have thousands of hours of real-time aircraft flying and, for a sim aircraft, I find the Viscount landing stability a real challenge. I can't believe that the real ac was this difficult but I have managed to tailor my technique to master it. My guess is that you are over-controlling the rudder. It is very sensitive. Remember...Wings level, 110 KIAS VRef. Full flaps over the threshold at 100 KIAS. Press the nose down after touchdown and steer with the nose wheel(controlled with rudder). Work on some touch-and-go's.   Good Luck! My problem with the "reality" factor is that it seems to float around like a boat while taxiing. I have never felt shock struts that buoyant. It needs patches but I don't think the developer is interested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Midnight Music Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2013 at 3:25am
2 major discoveries. Just downloaded sp1, which I did not know they had. I also checked autorudder in the aircraft realism settings...huge difference! Try it!

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omnijet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2013 at 3:06pm
I already had sp1 and tried auto-rudder. It is contrary to my egoistically esthetic instincts, but it does improve handling over the fence on final. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Midnight Music Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2013 at 11:28pm
What we urgently need are improved contact points. The plane has no grip on the runway once you touch down. The worst offender is the nose steering. If anyone has a suggestion, please post it here.

Lee
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Rich View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2013 at 1:42pm
Hi,
There is a new update on the Viscount support page that addresses the contact points.
I hope it helps
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndyUK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2013 at 9:05pm
Rich,
You might want to check the installer for the latest update. It installed to the wrong folder in my FSX installation - FSX\SimObjects\Airplane\JF_Vickers_Viscount rather than FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes\JF_Vickers_Viscount
 
Andy L
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 9:06pm
I had all issues named here, making her an uncontrollabel gliding mess on any approach. I had her taken back by JF and payed me back in redeemer points. Too bad, she is a looker and a plane FSX needs in the oldie department, but this one has too many issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omnijet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2013 at 10:14pm
Too bad you had to get rid of it. Nice airplane if you can get used to UK instrumentation and understand how the Dart engines function. I finally mastered it by using minimum to no rudder on short final and a lot of practice. I would not recommend it to a non real-world pilot. It does have issues and you practically have to be an aerodynamicist to conquer it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2016 at 12:41pm
I rebought it on a sale, installed the patch (which goes to the wrong folder as stated above) and copied the patched files to the correct folder. She now handles correctly.
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