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MS Flight latest and simmers aren't happy.

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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2012 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

That's not going to happen to Microsoft is it though. Anyway, as magic said, there are ways round activation if such a thing transpired.

No-one though Enron was going bust until it did. Plenty of other major corps have suddenly gone, too. Never say "never".

The point with all this is this: if you don't have physical copies of anything, and it is all "online" (or in "in the cloud" ) and the company goes bust, YOU ARE SCREWED!!!

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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Slopey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slopey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2012 at 8:29pm
M$ can't go bust - they have billions in actual hard currency available. Enron didn't.
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twright View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2012 at 1:42pm
In case anyone hasn't read it, here's Robert Randazzo's (PMDG) view on Flight:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/358874-some-thoughts-on-flight/

Interesting he does reinforce what I've heard said before that they will be testing one of their aircraft with XP10, possibly with the view of supporting the platform in the future?

I know Aerosoft have solidly gone down the X-Plane route, already working on a number of their sceneries for the new platform. Orbx on the other hand have already stated they anticipate supporting FSX and P3D side-by-side for "at least the next 5-10 years" and are unlikely to support XP10. Would be interested to know Just Flight's take on it?

I've gone full circle and despite my earlier comments am still looking at XP10. At least Laminar Research continue to support the product with frequent updates right to the end and it is, unlike Flight, a true simulation for the desktop covering the whole world, unlike the watered down rubbish Microsoft have given us MSFS users. Obviously it's different, but XP10 is more like FSX than Flight is, with a new engine. We'll just have to see where our favourite third party developers go and follow them!

I've noticed there will be a European Edition of X-Plane 10 coming out on Feb 17, bundled with some european airports from Aerosoft. I may give it a try, the time limited demo i've got doesn't even give me enough time to set up the controls!

Kind regards,
Tom
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2012 at 2:01pm
Quote I may give it a try, the time limited demo i've got doesn't even give me enough time to set up the controls!

I would have thought they would have realized what potential they have to steal the market, and change this accordingly. Maybe limit you to within 5 miles of an airport for example, so you can at least fly circuits and get a feel for things.

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Vulcan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slopey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2012 at 2:27pm
The 10 minute demo of X-Plane is a pita, but that's how they roll.

IIRC, X-Plane is missing alot of the low level systems modelling which is already present in FSX, so trying to do a complex add-on in X-Plane is a seriously larger amount of work than in FS. The GPS/FMC system has been cited as being an absolute nightmare, as has autopilots, because they work how Austin thinks they should work, not as they actually should. None of that has changed from 9 to 10.

The engine isn't that different from XP9 from a user perspective. The "plausible environment" imho is a gimmick as it is obviously wrong for places you have been to (unlike FSX which has a largely accurate main road network for example). With high autogen, XP10 performance is worse than FSX for comparable visuals (in my experience granted).

And XP10 is *still* Beta - it's not a matter of them continuing to support it - they're continuing to update the darn thing!

Beta 8 totally broke it for Windows users, Beta 9 has fixed the issue, but it's a constantly moving target. Until they get to a "release" state, add-on developers will be a little wary.

I just wish it had some proper QA done on it. It's still rubbish on first install with a largely empty world, no airport buildings at 90% of airports, no traffic (XP is terrible unless you want 4 AI aircraft), the ATC is useless (everyone has the same call sign).

It has a long way to go unless flying in an empty world in an add-on aircraft over Orbx scenery, non-radio is what you want to do, and you can do that better in FSX anyway.

The kicker is that it's the only game in town for Mac/Linux which is why the forums are full of vociferous OS bashing which is easily turned in to FS/FSX bashing as that means the dreaded scurge of the earth windows. Most of the users banging on about how rubbish FS is on their forums have never actually used it as they're on Mac/Linux.

I'd also be interested to see some independent stats of add-on sales for the X series - certainly AirHauler has done only a handful since I ported it, but that's again largely due to Windows only (and we're all on FS), and the X-Plane market is very used to being largely supported by freeware.

For $80, it's a load of money for beta software with more than a few niggles. And with $20 added shipping? Forget it. Wait for it to appear on Amazon!
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2012 at 2:53pm
Back to Fly!2 then I guess!

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Vulcan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nycpilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2012 at 6:55am
I tried X-plane for IPAD - based on the reviews saying it is very realistic etc, etc. I figured I might as well, maybe I can get the flying hobby down in my IPAD on the road. I am a huge FSX fan having converted from FS9 by getting a serious computer to run FSX. Having said that - Xplane was the biggest P.O.S that I ever purchased for IPAD. It was the worst App. I immediately felt like I got scammed for my money. I promised myself that I wouldn't make the same mistake twice. I don't think I will ever consider Xplane for my computer.

Until the foreseeable future, FSX will be my simulation of choice for a very very long time...PMDG NGX with AirHauler, ORBX, FlyTampa, ASE2012  - It really does not get better than that. Forget Flight --it is not a simulation --it is a freaking arcade game. By the way, through 20 years of flight simulation, I have never opted to do a "mission" within the architect of the game. I have no desire to collect coins, B.S., or what ever....Realism is key for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanielG123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2012 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by nycpilot nycpilot wrote:

I tried X-plane for IPAD - based on the reviews saying it is very realistic etc, etc. I figured I might as well, maybe I can get the flying hobby down in my IPAD on the road. I am a huge FSX fan having converted from FS9 by getting a serious computer to run FSX. Having said that - Xplane was the biggest P.O.S that I ever purchased for IPAD. It was the worst App. I immediately felt like I got scammed for my money. I promised myself that I wouldn't make the same mistake twice. I don't think I will ever consider Xplane for my computer.

Until the foreseeable future, FSX will be my simulation of choice for a very very long time...PMDG NGX with AirHauler, ORBX, FlyTampa, ASE2012  - It really does not get better than that. Forget Flight --it is not a simulation --it is a freaking arcade game. By the way, through 20 years of flight simulation, I have never opted to do a "mission" within the architect of the game. I have no desire to collect coins, B.S., or what ever....Realism is key for me.
I agree realism is key for any simulation.
To be wise you must once have been stupid
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orionexplorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 7:02am
I have to agree about the let down that Flight has turned out to be. I was worried when they let the old design team go, Aces Studios. There were a number of things that they just blew on FSX but on the whole I love it.
 
As for the cost and the way MS is releasing Flight it sounds like something from iRacing. Yes I do race there and yes it is VERY expensive to get all of the content but if you are a serious sim racer that is the place to go. Also compared to the cost of what I spent doing indoor Karting iRacing is VERY cheap. I am also the same way with FS; I enjoy it and I fly the world, i.e. US to UK to Europe to Asia to Africa and back to the US via UK is normal for me. I don't want to fly a Steerman I want to fly a Lear or a Legacy. They get me where I want to go much faster than a prop job will. I have several new aircraft that I just purchased and will learn those systems and stay in FSX.
 
As far as X-Plane goes, I have had versions 4 & 9 and was not impressed. The UI is clunky and the ATC sounds like something from a video game trying to talk to you, maybe they should have gotten Majeral Barrett to do the voice work. She did it for Star Trek and Star Trek Next Generation, it would have sounded much better than what is in there now. Give me FSX or FS9 and I will be happy. Keep X-Plane and MS Flight, I don't want them.
 
Jack
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slopey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2012 at 11:33pm
Quote maybe they should have gotten Majeral Barrett to do the voice work


No chance of that now!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 2012 at 9:15am
Originally posted by nycpilot nycpilot wrote:

I tried X-plane for IPAD - based on the reviews saying it is very realistic etc, etc. I figured I might as well, maybe I can get the flying hobby down in my IPAD on the road. I am a huge FSX fan having converted from FS9 by getting a serious computer to run FSX. Having said that - Xplane was the biggest P.O.S that I ever purchased for IPAD. It was the worst App. I immediately felt like I got scammed for my money. I promised myself that I wouldn't make the same mistake twice. I don't think I will ever consider Xplane for my computer.


You cannot compare the iPad version of X-Plane to the desktop version. Sorry, but they're totally different products and the price difference should reflect that. I actually think they did a pretty good job with the iPad version given the hardware limitations of the device. If you thought you were going to have an FSX-like experience on your iPad sorry but you were seriously misguided! It's NOT supposed to be a hugely realistic simulator, it's just a bit of fun and allows you to fly planes on your tablet using the touch and gyro controls, which I think it pulls off quite well.

On another note Flight will be released on the 29th February.
Kind regards,
Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 2:34pm
So, Flight will be released to download from the Flight website: http://www.microsoftflight.com/ on Wednesday.

Who's going to be among the first to try?
Kind regards,
Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 7:03pm
I'm not going to give MS the pleasure of +1 to the download count.

It's free - they will call it a success if they get 1,000,000 downloads regardless of whether anyone actually buys any of the "downloadable content".    $15 - $20 for an *MS* default aircraft?? The P-51 as it is currently does *NOT* have a VC! It is external model only!!!!!

The big killers for me:

* No 3rd party support WHATSOEVER
* Limited to Hawaii "we might add more locations when we see where people like to fly".

Uhh right... so if they try and fly off the map between 42.73 and 61.50 degrees True, they will build California scenery? I hope people realize this is how the possibility of additional scenery works!!! Flight will report back where you flew and how long, and MS will use that data to determine the next area to build. It is extremely unclear whether you will be able to fly between areas. It currently appears that you may not (add to the fact that there are no long range aircraft included without using the "unlimited fuel" option, and then it is going to be an extremely long flight at 100 kts).

If MS decide to build NY area, what about the other ~4.1 million square nautical miles between that and Hawaii?? It will never work!! Apparently when you fly off the map the graphics glitch.

I say old chap that's a trifle strange? Flying around balloons like a mad man? Note that you never see the VC of the P-51 as there isn't one. This is true 3rd-person flying idiocy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15s1AYrBsUA

I did discover that the head of MS Flight is the same idiot who gave us the Missions in FSX. His attitude to having world-wide coverage of over 25000 airports was "that's crazy". No sir, YOU are crazy.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
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twright View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2012 at 10:08pm
I agree with you mostly.

I will be downloading it. Partly because they offered me the Mustang (which I have to say I probably will never use until they finish it off with a cockpit) and the Maule for free for providing feedback on the beta.

Out of interest, which sim is your most used/favourite? I know by posts you've made before you don't care much for FSX either!
Kind regards,
Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 9:23am
Will be a bit of a non-event for me personally, and probably professionally.
I really should download it and keep track with its progress but it won't be done which much enthusiasm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2012 at 11:11pm
It's been released early. Not officially announced on their website but you can download it from Xbox Live:

http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-GB/

Go to Games > PC Games > Games > Strategy & Simulation

Kind regards,
Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fsxjunky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2012 at 5:47pm
Wow, the prices of the extra aircraft and expansions are crazy. How can Microsoft expect intelligent people to pay $19.99 for an aircraft that should come as standard with the simulator as it is! I know it is a free-to-play, but I would rather pay £50 for a fully developed simulator and the ability to add 3rd party content rather than £50 for a cheaply made 'game' with a small area and light aircraft. It is an utter rip off and Microsoft are making a HUGE mistake...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 10:21am
I don't think the prices are unreasonable. The aircraft (specifically the Maule and the RV-6A) are far more detailed than any FSX default aircraft, probably up there with some of the Carenado offerings. A Carenado aircraft would set you back about £15-20 anyway.
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Tom
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 7:13pm
I've downloaded it, played around.
Sets me straight into a mission about flying round some balloons in a pathetic pushmipullyu aircraft, an 'Icon'. Pah. Talk about hopeless. The VC didn't look great, the flight dynamics were surprising, the environment was bland and lonely, even in daylight it looked dark.
I will say however, that the photorealistic scenery is brilliant compared to FSX. That was the only aspect I enjoyed, but because of the rest of it, I couldn't get high enough to view it properly, there wasn't anywhere interesting to fly, no extreme places.
 
As a 16-year-old with no credit card and slow internet, I have an extreme dislike of cloud-based DLC-rubbish. I yell at Steam whenever Civilization V loads (but it looks so pretty), and Flight is much the same.
 
It is good for:
 
1) Aviation-based gaming for people with high-powered computers but who never use them for anything worthwhile.
2) People who want really detailed coastlines of a stupid island in the middle of nowhere (no offence to Hawaiians here)
3) Rich people who can eventually purchase the rest of the game. I won't be.
 
Also, it runs pretty well, I've got a good computer (just underneath the recommended for High setting by 0.1gHz), so I would say in that aspect it runs better than FSX, whilst looking better.
But it is an insult to us all. Do not purchase anything. Do not trust Microsoft until they do something decent. Stick to proper simulation. And keep Justflight in business, making the best add-ons for the best simulator there will be for a while.
 
I advise JF to write a strongly worded letter. I'd sign it if you wanted signatures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote George Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2012 at 7:19pm
Oh, and my joystick's throttle doesn't have any effect. Had to control it manually with F2,3,4, and who does that when they paid for throttle imput?
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