80 mph speed limit. |
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MartinW 
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 Topic: 80 mph speed limit.Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 5:55pm |
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"Increasing the motorway speed limit to 80 MPH would generate economic benefits of hundreds of millions of pounds through shorter journey times." Yes indeed, that would tickle the fancy of a Conservative party, who care more about money than lives.
What about the huge increase in petrol burnt, a valuable and limited resource?
What about the burden on the health service as a result of more or greater severity accidents?
What about the increase in pollutants that cause asthma and lung disease?
Of course, if we burn more petrol the Conservatives would love that, because they would get more tax from the driver.
There's enough lunatics on the road as it is without allowing them to drive faster.
70 is enough.
More haste less speed.
 The pace of life needs to slow down not get faster. The stress of modern life, which takes it's toll on the NHS and lifespans, is perhaps partly as a result of the pace of modern life.
Transport Secretary Philip Hammond said the current limit, introduced in 1965, was out of date due to "huge advances in safety and motoring technology". Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
The Department for Transport says as many as 49% of drivers flout the current 70mph limit. So you enforce the speed limit, you don't increse it. I'm to a degree playing devils advocate, so don't attack in droves speed merchants.
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767nutter
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Joined: 09 Jul 2008 Location: Norfolk, UK Points: 1330 |
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Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 10:08pm |
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Yes indeed, that would tickle the fancy of a Conservative party, who care more about money than lives.
thing is though, what is the difference in chances that a person would surive a accident whether it is at 70 or 80. I remember the adverts with the little girl that say if you hit her at 30 there's a 80% chance she'll live, hit her at 40 there's a 80% chance she'll die. So i take the view that above 60 the chance is virtually zero. Are there any stats of the difference?
What about the huge increase in petrol burnt, a valuable and limited resource?
To be honest i myself notice more of a increase in fuel burn when i'm stuck in traffic, i'm not trying to defer the topic itself but i would prefer the government to try and lessen the time of peoples journeys by trying to avoid big build up in congestion.
What about the increase in pollutants that cause asthma and lung disease?
Of course, if we burn more petrol the Conservatives would love that, because they would get more tax from the driver.
I can see where you're coming from here, but cars nowadays are much more economical than 10 years ago, and i think that just because the limit will be raised to 80 most people will stick to 60. When i drive to work its about 4.30pm and i notice on the A47 and A11 alot of people do stay and 60-70, yet when i'm travelling home in the morning ( about 5.45am ) i see the few people on the road do go 80+ ( less chance off getting stopped by the police perhaps? )
To be honest i can't see ( if any ) much change in death rates if the limit was raised. Wasn't the 70mph limit introduced in 1965 because of accident rates due to fog?
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Hot_Charlie
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Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 10:41pm |
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No need to change it IMHO. You just give guidance as to how readily the police need to enforce the 70mph limit, and go from there. I quite happily cruise around 70-75mph depending on prevailing traffic conditions (if it's clear I just set the cruise control to 70), and have no desire to effectively be forced to go at 80 to fit in with other traffic. At 70 my car's quite economical. At 80, the mpg goes down by about 5mpg.
Tax, tax, tax... You never know, they may decrease fuel duty by 1% or so! |
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MartinW
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Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 10:46pm |
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To be honest i myself notice more of a increase in fuel burn when i'm stuck in traffic, i'm not trying to defer the topic itself but i would prefer the government to try and lessen the time of peoples journeys by trying to avoid big build up in congestion.
Extra speed won't stop congestion. You don't get stuck in traffic on a motorway that often. And you would still get stuck in traffic on a non motorway route anyway. Imagine the cars in their millions, that are all burning more petrol. If you give them a 70 limit, many will drive at 85 or more. Give them an 80 limit any many will drive at 95 or more.
i think that just because the limit will be raised to 80 most people will stick to 60
You think a motorway speed limit of 80 will result in people driving at 60? Me thinks not. The drivers that don't speed still won't, but the drivers that do will add the extra speed onto their already excessive speed.
I can see where you're coming from here, but cars nowadays are much more economical than 10 years ago,
We're not comparing an 80 limit now with a 70 limit 10 years ago. We are comparing a 70 limit now, with an 80 limit now. Same technology, same current engine efficiency.
To be honest i can't see ( if any ) much change in death rates if the limit was raised. Wasn't the MPH limit introduced in 1965 because of accident rates due to fog?
Any increase in speed limit reduces thinking time and increases impact severity. They will still drive up each others backsides, and the nutters won't increase the distance form the vehicle in front. Yes brakes are better, but that means little when you are up someones backside. You must have seen the ridiculously low driving standard on the motorway. Why make it worse.
Keep the speed limit to 70 and strictly enforce it. Save loads of petrol, reduce pollution, and make it easier to avoid an accident.
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kessler
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Joined: 02 Apr 2008 Location: Manchester Points: 745 |
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 6:45am |
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those same 49% will still continue to 'flout' the new speed limit! The limit is currently 70 and so those idiots routinely do 80 or more. Increasing the limit to 80 will only mean thos same people will then routinely do around 90 or more. In my experience, the majority of drivers are incapable of keeping to the speed limits. It never ceases to amaze me that the vast number of speeding drivers - and I mean speeding with regards to breaking the speed limits, wherever they are - are family people, usually with children. My, but how they would jump up and down if one of their own was mown down by another speeder! And yet they hurtle along with no thought about who they themselves might kill or seriously injure due to their negligence.
Rant over!
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MartinW
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 9:08am |
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Good post Kessler!
Another ill thought out move by the government in my opinion.
On the one hand they tell us they are fighting climate change, pollutants etc, and then they say they will increase the motorway speed limit.
On the one hand they agree that petrol is a finite resource and should be concerved, and they they tell us they will increase the speed limit to 80.
 Nuts the lot of them.
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767nutter
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 10:18am |
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Extra speed won't stop congestion. You don't get stuck in traffic on a motorway that often. And you would still get stuck in traffic on a non motorway route anyway. Imagine the cars in their millions, that are all burning more petrol. If you give them a 70 limit, many will drive at 85 or more. Give them an 80 limit any many will drive at 95 or more.
Sorry i think you misunderstood that bit, what i was saying was i would prefer they wouldn't discuss the idea of raising the limit and instead concentrate on lowering congestion, im not just talking about A/M roads, to get to work i do have to go through my town to get onto the A47/A11, and sometimes the traffic is rediculous. One of the culprits is roadworks, they take a stupid amount of time to do even the simple things. Imagine the reduction in pollution if there wasnt so many cars just waiting in traffic unnecessarily.
You think a motorway speed limit of 80 will result in people driving at 60? Me thinks not. The drivers that don't speed still won't, but the drivers that do will add the extra speed onto their already excessive speed.
I didnt say 'all' did i? i said most and as i said in the next sentence i mostly see people speeding when its in the early hours of the morning. of course i know it isnt the same everywhere else and it doesnt excuse the fact.
Any increase in speed limit reduces thinking time and increases impact severity
wouldnt this relate more to a stationary/slow moving object? just off the top off my head but if someone is tailgating another person at 70 or 80 how much of a difference would there be in the difference of speed when the person knocks into the person in front?
also i hope you dont think i am on the side of raising the speed limit by what ive said, im actually in the middle. im just trying to see it from both sides as i can see where youre coming from but as a motorist that uses every type of road i also see it from a different point of view |
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MartinW
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 1:08pm |
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Pot holes are the thing that annoys me, rather than road works. Round here, the council haven't got the money for road works or pot holes. A while back, I had to take my car to Kwikfit to have an enormous dent in the wheel hammered out. I was amazed the tyre stayed on. Good news was Kwikfit didn't charge me.
wouldnt this relate more to a stationary/slow moving object?
Don't think so. If you are zooming down the motorway, and an incident happens up ahead, you are better off at slower speed than faster. More time to brake, evade, whatever is appropriate.
just off the top off my head but if someone is tailgating another person at 70 or 80 how much of a difference would there be in the difference of speed when the person knocks into the person in front?
I don't know. But 70 might give you time to evade, whereas 80 might not.
but as a motorist that uses every type of road
Me too, have done for 30 years.  |
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VulcanB2
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 2:44pm |
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The argument that increasing the speed limit will result in more injuries is nonsense! Germany has UNLIMITED speed limits, with people regularly driving at 120+ MPH on the Autobahn, and they have 30% fewer accidents than we do!!!
I'm sick and tired of this crap that "speed kills". No - speed does NOT kill - poor driving does! I'm all in favor of increasing the limit, and IMHO I'd go to 100 as most cars can achieve this safely. Best regards, Vulcan. |
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MartinW
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 3:01pm |
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Not true, it's only "some" stretches of the Autobahn that have no restriction.
In addition, Germany's speed limits are "rigorously" enforced...something we don't do here. In Germany there are very heavy on the spot fines and radar traps are frequent. If you break the speed limit in Germany you pay the price. Hence the better safety record.
As you can see, lowering the speed limit in Germany resulted in 20% less crashes.
 You'll also see significant reductions in crashes in other nations.
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MartinW
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 3:06pm |
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Not true at all...
This is what happens when you increase the speed limit.
It's also interesting to note, that when you increase the speed limit, people break the speed limit more. In blue below.
'20 mph speed limit zones' which use self enforcing traffic calming achieved average speed reductions of 10 mph, child pedestrian accidents were reduced by 70% and child cyclist accidents by 48%.
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VulcanB2
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 6:37pm |
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OK - let me re-phrase that - increasing the speed limit does not increase the number of crashes. I do agree that when a crash occurs, faster will mean worse injuries. I'd suggest people need to avoid crashing more then.
The speed limits on sections of the autobahn are a recent thing - prior to this change they had 30% fewer accidents than us. The enforcement on speed is not the reason they have fewer crashes either. We have speed cameras all over the place, but crashes did not reduce. Best regards, Vulcan. |
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Hot_Charlie
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 7:09pm |
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Yep, but the problem is that just 5 minutes on any British road or motorway shows that the standard of driving is not up to it, be it the underconfident driver doing less than 50 on a motorway, or the idiots on the motorway and other roads who either tailgate or simply drive too close to the car in front. Secondly, comparing the stats from us and from countries such as France and Germany is quite false; apart from urban/suburban routes, comparing our motorways with the autobahns and autoroutes doesn't work. Generally the latter don't have anywhere the same volume of traffic. |
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MartinW
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 8:48pm |
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OK - let me re-phrase that - increasing the speed limit does not increase the number of crashes
Did you not read the statistics above?
The enforcement on speed is not the reason they have fewer crashes either. We have speed cameras all over the place, but crashes did not reduce.
Probably is, people behave themselves, if they don't they are likely to be in trouble. I saw the same thing when I went to New Zealand many years ago. People drove at the speed limit, if they didn't, the law came down very hard on them, they were likely to be caught and severely dealt with. Here due to politics and lack of police manpower, we don't enforce the speed limits as much as we could. The radar traps in Germany are precisely that "traps". Hear, we warn people they are about to encounter a speed camera, by painting it bright colours, so you slow down and then speed up again after.
Hotty has a good point regarding the density of traffic also.
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767nutter
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Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 3:15pm |
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A while back, I had to take my car to Kwikfit to have an enormous dent in the wheel hammered out
last year i had to replace my whole front suspension due to potholes. It angers me that our roads are in this state.
I was going to mention the autobahn had Vulcan not beaten me to it!Having unrestricted limits, accident rates are low due to the strict laws in Germany. If we had the same laws applied here, with the limit at 70 or 80 the rates would be lower than what they are now. We need the goverment and police to enforce the law and deal harsher punishments for offenders, not just a slap on the wrist. In Germany if you are caught tailgating on the autobahn you lose your licence for upto 3 months.
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VulcanB2
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Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 3:46pm |
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Please quote numbers and not percentages - percentages are meaningless on their own.
25% increase - so it increased from 4 to 5 crashes? Also, over what period? 1 year, or 10 years? I'll re-quote myself: despite Germany having unlimited speed limit on the Autobahn (and this statistic is prior to the introduction of speed limits on some sections) they have 30% fewer crashes than us (in the UK last year there were 222,146 casualties of all kinds of which 24,690 were deaths, but I can not find any stats for the number of cars actually crashed). Assuming all vehicles were 5 seat cars and were fully loaded, that is 44,429.2 vehicles. On a side-note, 4/5 of all fatal crashes in 2010 involved drivers of both vehicles who were both 30 or older. 1/5 involved at least one driver who was under 30, and 1/500th where both drivers were under 25. Despite this, they claim that young drivers are more of a risk!  The statistics do not support this claim.
Best regards, Vulcan. |
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MartinW
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Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 4:14pm |
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Please quote numbers and not percentages - percentages are meaningless on their own.
The research has been done, many time's over in many nations, seven nations mentioned above. You are wrong. Just accept it. Seven different nations aren't trying to con you.
I'll re-quote myself: despite Germany having unlimited speed limit on the Autobahn (and this statistic is prior to the introduction of speed limits on some sections) they have 30% fewer crashes than us
Got a link to that statistic?
Got a link to your UK statistics?
you can't compare one country to another like that, when countries have differant traffic density, different degrees of enforcement, different regulations, etc etc.
And again, the reason you have a good safety record in Germany is because the speed limits are very strictly enforced. Not to mention the fact that cars aren't packed together like sardines on the road. The German's even have unmarked cars on the road, monitoring tail-gating. If they see you driving to close you cop it.
In addition, your 30% fewer crashes in Germany statistics is meaningless. To quote you...
Vulcan >"Please quote numbers and not percentages - percentages are meaningless on their own"
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VulcanB2
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Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 4:26pm |
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No. Only an ignorant fool "just accepts" things. Quote actual figures. I can't find the link at the moment, but I posted here a short while ago. Best regards, Vulcan. |
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MartinW
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Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 4:28pm |
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You accept nothing, from anybody, any time, as a matter of course. It's your way.
The proper balance is somewhere in the middle.
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VulcanB2
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Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 4:29pm |
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You're absolutely right!
Best regards, Vulcan. |
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