This forum is in read-only mode for archive purposes, please use our new forum at https://community.justflight.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Just Chat > Just Chat - General Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 80 mph speed limit.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

80 mph speed limit.
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
767nutter View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot


Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Location: Norfolk, UK
Points: 1330 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 767nutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2012 at 10:27am
And what about speedometer inaccuracy? the whole point of allowing some leeway is to compensate for instrument inaccuracy and minor human error rather than deliberate speeding.

thats what i am confused about, they have a leeway now, but not when they are raising the limit, they should have a leeway, especially as speedos are supposed to become less accurate the fast you go. I can't help imagine that traffic cops shall be sitting at the bottom of a very steep hill, so if some poor sod is going at 79mph and ends up going over slightly , bingo! money in the bag.
Back to Top
Hot_Charlie View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot


Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Points: 1839 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hot_Charlie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2012 at 10:28am
Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

That scenario already applies.

The speed limit is 70, however if you are 10 over [your hard limit] you are usually okay. Above that you usually get fined.



You're usually ok - abd therefore the scenario doesn't apply - it's open to discretion and judgement of those "in the law". Therefore it is not a "black and white" scenario.

Quote Your hard 80 doesn't work in terms of speedometer inaccuracy, you could have those who drive at 78 and shouldn't be fined, but because of instrument inaccuracy were. Makes more sense to have a 70 limit that you must aim for, but you can't be fined unless you are a percentage above that... as we have now. 


It does work, because you are suggesting that people still use 70, maybe 75 as a suggested driving speed. If they want to go faster than that on their speedo, that's their risk. If their speedo's that bad then maybe their car shouldn't be on the road. All it does is says if you're going 10mph faster than the speed limit (which is probably quite a way outside any instrument tolerance error %age, you will be fined, and removes any ambiguity of policeman "x" deciding not to stop driver "y", and policman "m" stopping driver "n", which is far fairer on the motorist. At the end of the day, it all about the dreaded "R-word". Unfortunately people are averse to being responsible for their actions these days...

Quote If you have a hard 80 you aren't protecting motorists from the instrument inaccuracy they probably aren't even aware of.


If they're that thick you question whether they should be driving a car.
Back to Top
767nutter View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot


Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Location: Norfolk, UK
Points: 1330 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 767nutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2012 at 10:55am
If they're that thick you question whether they should be driving a car.

that's a bit harsh isn't it? i bet if you ask a few people whether they know speedos are inaccurate some will say they didn't
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2012 at 10:56am

 It does work, because you are suggesting that people still use 70, maybe 75 as a suggested driving speed. If they want to go faster than that on their speedo, that's their risk. If their speedo's that bad then maybe their car shouldn't be on the road.

 

"Suggesting" meaning you don't have to. Minor inaccuracies in speedo's aren't an MOT failure. They don't test for accuracy.

 

Imagine this scenario...

 

Magic Man’s hot girlfriend is racing to Primark to buy some suspenders and stockings. Magic is depressed because his motherboard has exploded. She wishes to cheer him up with some kinky underwear, and Primark have a sale on.

 

She knows the government say to aim for 75, but she wants to get there before the rush. She also knows that the maximum she can drive before getting fined is 80, so she drives a bit faster, 78mph.

 

But what Magic a Man’s sexy girlfriend doesn't know, because she isn't technically minded, is that even a brand new car isn’t guaranteed to have a super accurate speedometer. It could read up to 10% over by law [overestimating her speed] or read under to a degree due to a fault. [Underestimating her speed] Allegedly, they intend to fine for just 1mph over.

 

The police stop her and she gets a fine for driving at 81mph. She then has the hassle of complaing in court that her speedo was innacuarte. The court won't accept this as a defence and she has to pay the fine.

 

Wouldn’t it be better [as it is now] that the speed limit is 70, and the law specifies a given percentage to allow for inaccuracy of instrumentation and minor unintended transgressions?

 
P.S in reality correctly functioning brand new speedometers usually overestimate speed,  putting the driver on the safe side of the speed limit... It's faulty speedometers that can underestimate.
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2012 at 10:57am

Quote It does work, because you are suggesting that people still use 70, maybe 75 as a suggested driving speed. If they want to go faster than that on their speedo, that's their risk.
 
Then don't suggest, make that speed the official limit. As it is now.
Back to Top
767nutter View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot


Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Location: Norfolk, UK
Points: 1330 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 767nutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2012 at 11:02am
Magic Man’s hot girlfriend

he has a hot girlfr.....  sorry he has a girlfriend?Shocked

Wink
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2012 at 11:11am
It's just an adult play thing, that's what he calls his wife.
Back to Top
VulcanB2 View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Points: 13365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2012 at 8:34pm
I'd like to see 80 for motorways but much faster is pointless as most cars won't do it anyway (not to mention falling the other-side of the fuel economy curve).

Best regards,
Vulcan.
Back to Top
UberAegis View Drop Down
Ground Crew
Ground Crew
Avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Points: 85 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UberAegis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2012 at 9:13pm
Absolutely 100% with martin on this one. When riding i like to keep my eyes on the road and not always on my speedo. It s incredibly easy to slip over the speed limit by a couple of mph, after a while at high speed your brain starts to process information faster, if the road is wide and empty 70 can seem slower then on a busy or narrower carriageway.the idea being that when i periodically look down i ease back to 70. the idea of having a speed limit which no one can do for fear of going 1mph over is frankly ludicrous, so no real surprise its coming from this government. in terms of having an eighty limit with a realistic margin of error after much thought i really don t think it would be a good idea. car technology may have increased massively in the last 30 years but have driving standards. no matter how good the car if theres an idiot behind the wheel its an accident waiting to happen and ironically the safety features will probably protect the idiot behind the wheel. i know there are a lot of good drivers but some of the driving i see quite frankly beggars belief..
If the wings are moving faster than the fuselage you`re in a helicopter and therefore unsafe
Back to Top
VulcanB2 View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Points: 13365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2012 at 5:25am
If I ignore my speed, my driving is safer because I can actually concentrate on the road and other users, but as it is, I spend too much time making sure I'm not speeding, which actually increases my risk of a collision. Unfortunately those with the power to do anything are too stupid to understand.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2012 at 10:06am

Yes, as I said earlier, we aren't robots. Fining for just 1mph over 80 is bonkers.

70 with a safety margin is fine.
 
I find it ironic that this government is cutting left right and centre, making the poor suffer, [while at the same time giving tax breaks to the rich] and simultaneously introducing these stupid schemes that waste money.
 
 
Back to Top
kessler View Drop Down
P1
P1
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Location: Manchester
Points: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kessler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2012 at 10:27am
A good driver is one who not only knows the roads speed limits, but also adheres to that speed limit!  I believe that knowing its an 80 mph speed limit is just an invitation to all the idiots on the road to crank it up by yet another 10 mph or more! I find it equally incomprehensible that Vulcan says ignoring the his speed makes him a safer driver?? Maybe thats another way of saying you're keeping up with the flow of traffic, but it wouldnt wash if you were pulled for speeding and gave that as an excuse ( at least in my force) My risk of a collision comes from  morons constantly speeding when they shouldnt!  Can you imagine the chaos around airports if pilots had the freedom to taxi around as they pleased and at whatever speed - above the max?
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2012 at 10:43am
 
Quote I believe that knowing its an 80 mph speed limit is just an invitation to all the idiots on the road to crank it up by yet another 10 mph or more!
 
Precisely!
 
If I had my way, it would be reduced to 60, with a reasonable percentage to allow for instrument inaccuracy and minor human error, after all, we are all fallible human beings.
 
Reducing the limit would be safer [see statistics posted earlier] and cut down the amount of rubbish we pump into the air.
Back to Top
VulcanB2 View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Points: 13365 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VulcanB2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2012 at 6:36pm
Quote I find it equally incomprehensible that Vulcan says ignoring the his speed makes him a safer driver??

Which would you prefer - that I was looking out the window, looking at the road for bloody great holes, obstructions, and other items that could be flicked up by my vehicle or take out a tyre and monitoring other traffic, or have me distracted from all that to ensure I don't exceed the speed limit? Ironically I could drive faster if I didn't watch my speed because I would see a situation developing sooner and could react sooner, but you'd prefer I be distracted to keep to the speed limit and as a result react later because I saw something later? At 60 MPH you are travelling at 88 ft/sec. At 70 MPH you are travelling at 102.666 ft/sec. It takes approx. 523 ft to stop from 70 MPH.

Quote Maybe thats another way of saying you're keeping up with the flow of traffic

Not at all! It is a common occurrence that traffic leaves me behind (GOOD - increased stopping distance to allow for the idiot tail-gating me).

As I have stated before, I'd be quite happy to have cameras fitted to my vehicle watching everything I do.

Best regards,
Vulcan.
Back to Top
kessler View Drop Down
P1
P1
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Location: Manchester
Points: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kessler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2012 at 8:19am
I have to drive looking out for all the same things as you do and yet I manage to drive within the speed limits.  But I'm with you on the fitting of cameras to my car - it would've caught the prick who overtook me in a 30 zone doing about 50 just last night on the way home!
Back to Top
767nutter View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot


Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Location: Norfolk, UK
Points: 1330 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 767nutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2012 at 9:31am
If I had my way, it would be reduced to 60

i can honestly and truthfully say that i see almost everyone drive below 70 nowadays, the price of fuel is the obvious guess. The only vehicles i see mainly driving above 70 are by people who have fuel paid for them by their company, ie delivery drivers, business taxis etc, even with the car i have now i have been driving at 60 most of the time,
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2012 at 10:32am
Originally posted by 767nutter 767nutter wrote:

If I had my way, it would be reduced to 60

i can honestly and truthfully say that i see almost everyone drive below 70 nowadays,
 
You must be driving on different motorways then me then. I see many cars over 70, some well over.
 
.
Back to Top
Matt N View Drop Down
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Location: Hertfordshire
Points: 2287 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt N Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2012 at 11:52am
Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

Originally posted by 767nutter 767nutter wrote:

If I had my way, it would be reduced to 60

i can honestly and truthfully say that i see almost everyone drive below 70 nowadays,
 
You must be driving on different motorways then me then. I see many cars over 70, some well over.
 
.
 
On our local motorways (M1 and M25), everyone seems to do over 70mph too. Then they reach the speed cameras and slam the breaks on.
 
Does anyone know if they're still in talks about linking motorway speed cameras?
 
I heard a couple of years back that the government wanted to bring out cameras which would calculate the average speed cars travel between cameras. It would stop those who fly down motorways at 100mph.
Originally Posted by MartinW

I use mine for spare knickers when I'm traveling.
Back to Top
kessler View Drop Down
P1
P1
Avatar

Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Location: Manchester
Points: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kessler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2012 at 11:57am
Same up here in Manchester, regularly see loads doing over the limit on the motorway.
Back to Top
MartinW View Drop Down
Moderator in Command
Moderator in Command
Avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2012 at 3:17pm
Quote I heard a couple of years back that the government wanted to bring out cameras which would calculate the average speed cars travel between cameras. It would stop those who fly down motorways at 100mph.
 
They already have that system on some stretches of the motorway, it's not widespread though.
 
What they need to do, is get away from that stupid notion of painting speed cameras bright colours, so everyone knows when to slam on their brakes. I say they should all be hidden, that way we would have to drive at the speed limit.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down