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Slopey View Drop Down
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Points: 8280 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slopey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

If the army aren’t going to be allowed to assist, then at least give the police the tools they need… plastic baton rounds, and tear gas.


Absolutely - but even if you augment the police with the army - it's unlikely to be a deterrent, there'll just be more personnel available to deal with the aftermath.

Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

They aren’t conducting guerrilla warfare. The thugs are in large groups, three nights running in London, openly trashing shops and burning buildings.


Yes, and then vanishing into their houses etc - they're not milling around waiting to be picked up - they're trashing/burning/stealing, then legging it. So it is almost like guerilla warfare. They're not stupid enough to hang around when the rozzers turn up, but unless the police are there in the first place, there's nothing to stop them committing the act.
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Quote I hope you mean with rubber bullets.

Yes, sorry.

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Magic Man View Drop Down
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Points: 5336 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Magic Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 12:46pm
Agree with Martin and Pointy here. We need more bodies on the streets, the police can only do so much and there are only so many of them - we need another large force to compliment them and that means the army.
 
Introduce curfews in the affected areas and the same anywhere that looks likely to copy these thugs.
We haven't got enough jail space unfortunately to jail them if we started taking groups but we could impose serious fines. Name, shame and fine them, severly.
 
Unfortunately, the thug/lout/gang mentality has been growing and bubbling under the surface for many years in this country and is concentrated in many major city areas. Very little has been done about it so it only takes some incident in some part of the community to spark off the initial reaction which quickly escalates elsewhere.
 
We've been too soft and accomodating for too long. This is a wake up call...
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 12:48pm
Absolutely - but even if you augment the police with the army - it's unlikely to be a deterrent,
 
I disagree. There is no deterrent at the moment because the police are in insufficient numbers and powerless to act. They were literally sitting back and allowing the thugs to loot and burn last night.
 
 
And no Slopey, they have not been vanishing into their houses. They are on the streets, and have remained on the streets all night. As I said, in many areas the police have literally sat back and watched the criminal activity.
 
 
 
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 12:49pm
Quote
Unfortunately, the thug/lout/gang mentality has been growing and bubbling under the surface for many years in this country and is concentrated in many major city areas. Very little has been done about it so it only takes some incident in some part of the community to spark off the initial reaction which quickly escalates elsewhere.
 
We've been too soft and accomodating for too long. This is a wake up call...
 
 
Precisely!
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Slopey View Drop Down
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Points: 8280 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slopey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 12:53pm
Well, they're not going to use the army - so, will 16,000 police be enough?
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MartinW MartinW wrote:

Quote
Unfortunately, the thug/lout/gang mentality has been growing and bubbling under the surface for many years in this country and is concentrated in many major city areas. Very little has been done about it so it only takes some incident in some part of the community to spark off the initial reaction which quickly escalates elsewhere.

 

We've been too soft and accomodating for too long. This is a wake up call...


 

 

Precisely!

+1

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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Slopey Slopey wrote:

Well, they're not going to use the army - so, will 16,000 police be enough?

Yes, if they're armed and use tear gas, and make it known that rioting will not be tolerated. A lot of these people wouldn't do what they're doing if they thought there was a REAL threat of being suppressed by the authorities. They KNOW the Police will do NOTHING to stop them, which is why they're out there with impunity.

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MartinW View Drop Down
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Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 12:57pm
Well, they're not going to use the army - so, will 16,000 police be enough?
 
But unfortunately they are coming from Scotland, so Slopeys plane might get nicked by the Scottish copy cat rioting kids. Wink
 
Although Scottish chavs all wear kilts and carry claymore's apparently. You may need to call in the immortal Highlanders Slopey! Big%20smile
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Slopey View Drop Down
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Quote Although Scottish chavs all wear kilts and carry claymore's apparently.


Replace Kilts with "Kappa tracksuits", and claymores with "Buckfast" and you're nearer the mark.

I think nobody is rioting in the central belt up here simply because they can't be arsed!

(I'm in a pedantic mood today - must be the impending collapse of the markets and the rising up of the unwashed handfuls, hence http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe )
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MartinW View Drop Down
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Points: 26722 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartinW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 1:06pm
So where are these 16,000 police coming from?
 
Who are they leaving unprotected?
 
 
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Slopey View Drop Down
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Likely just called a load of shift workers in at the same time, and taking others from nearby forces who are not experiencing any issues.

And that's 16,000 total, not an additional 16,000. For all we know, there might have been 14,000 out last night (but that's maybe unlikely), so it might not be that many more in real terms.

According to wikipedia, the Met has 32k police officers (all ranks), so it's likely one half of the force (on the basis they'll need the other half for the day shift).
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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WHAT???????????????

SOME IDIOT WAS JUST SAYING THAT WE SHOULD NOT PROSECUTE "YOUNG OFFENDERS" AS THEY WILL GET A CRIMINAL RECORD!!!!

** THEY SHOULD NOT BE BREAKING THE LAW IF THEY DO NOT WANT A CRIMINAL RECORD!!!!!!!!! **

Whilst we have these idiots running things we have no chance!!!!!!!

THROW THE BOOK AT THEM!!!!!!!!

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Slopey View Drop Down
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Classic - Brixton girl in Currys uniform arrested for looting the shop she works for. Pic here

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FSaddict View Drop Down
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They had to call in forces from the surrounding areas last night to assist. Sounds like there understaffed to me.
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Slopey View Drop Down
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Originally posted by FSaddict FSaddict wrote:

They had to call in forces from the surrounding areas last night to assist. Sounds like there understaffed to me.


More likely it's the way the shift rotas work out. With all those personnel, you're going to stagger shift patterns across multiple shifts, so you'll only have a certain percentage available as standard - even if you call in the other shifts, there'll be some who won't be available as they're asleep etc.

Whether 32,000 is enough in a city of 8.2 million is another argument, even if the vast majority are law abiding.
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Slopey View Drop Down
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Quote Whilst we have these idiots running things we have no chance!!!!!!!


Who said it though? Was it someone who is "running things" or a random punter/oppo backbencher? (Although I agree they're nuts).
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VulcanB2 View Drop Down
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They didn't identify them. They were talking to people who work with these people, so I guess someone from some charity or something.

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Slopey View Drop Down
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So they're not "running things" then.
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UberAegis View Drop Down
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I think it s time to stop trying to understand these people and come down hard on them. the police should stop worrying whether or not their actions might cause one of these luvvies to get a bump on their head. if it was me i would tell the drivers of those armoured cars to just keep driving. in a middle of a recession these morons are costing decent people their jobs.
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