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Callsigns incorrect?

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forzamo View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 4:22pm
Hey all,

I'm still pretty new to Traffic X, so please bear with me. I have installed editvoicepack, although I'm not sure that has anything to do with this problem. Unfortunately I couldn't figure out how to link a screenshot so I'll do my best to explain.

While I'm sitting at PHNL (it's the same for all other airports too), this is the list of aircraft I have, with their callsigns to the right:

737-800 - N6707A
757-200 - N553UA
757-200 - N590NW
767-200 - N592HA

These are just a few examples, but they are pretty much identical.

So, my question is, are these callsigns normal? I mean, for example UA, should it be UALXXX? I'm just having a hard time figuring out why these callsigns are like this.

Thanks for any help!


EDIT: I also just found a bunch of assorted airliners with all the same callsigns, but different liveries (westjet, air canada, jazz). They all had C-GFJK as their callsign.. sounds a little odd to me. I should also add, ATC seems to be giving the correct callsigns, it's just not showing in the 'right click -> Air Traffic' menu.

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freddy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 11:49pm
Traffic X does TAIL NUMBERS badly.  The "Tail Number" (aircraft registry number) is what you see when you use the FSX right-click menu to get up the Traffic list showing all the aircraft.  That list also shows the aircraft type as well.

A "tail number" is different from a "callsign".  A callsign is what controllers use to talk to an aircraft, such as "Delta", "Qantas", "KLM", "Speed Bird", etc.  So, ATC communicates with a plane using the callsign first, followed by the designated "tail number" or the flight number ... as in "Speed Bird 468" (where "Speed Bird" is the callsign, and "468" is the flight number).  Other examples might include "Beach Alpha Juliet Lima" ("Beach AJL"), where the Beach Baron aircraft does not belong to an airline and therefore there's no callsign to use.  But, the tail number (in this case "AJL") is used.

Note that in real-life some (all?) airlines not only use tail numbers, but there is also a sub-category which allows distinctions between each FLEET of aircraft. Often, but not always, the fleet number corresponds to the second, third, and fourth characters of the tail number. In other cases, the fleet number has little or no correlation to the tail number at all.  An example might be "N844AA" with the "AA" part indicating the aircraft belongs to the American Airlines fleet.

See here for more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_registration

OK, that's the definition ... you're talking about the TAIL NUMBERS in Traffic X being strange/incorrect.

(Note that EditVoicepack deals with "callsigns", amongst other things, but it does not deal with "tail numbers".)

As I stated at the beginning of my post, Traffic X does TAIL NUMBERS badly.  Traffic X does get most (the majority) of the CALLSIGNS right for the relevant airlines.  But it doesn't do tail numbers very well at all.

I am not really an expert in what designations I should be seeing on tails at overseas airports ... But it does seem that the tail designations in Traffic X are correct ... as in planes in North America use the "Nxxxx" designation, planes in Australia use the "VH-xxx" designation, planes in the United Kingdom use the "G-xxxx" designation etc.  Traffic X does seem to follow these correctly.  But, like I said, I am no expert on what I should be seeing at each airport in each country for each and every airline.

Where Traffic X lets you down is in the randomisation of the NUMBERS and LETTERS.  Traffic X simply does not handle the randomisation of the numbers and letters very well at all.  So you might end up with the same, repeated, "G-96321" designation appearing on nearly ALL the aircraft at a British airport.  The 96321 number being repeated on aircraft after aircraft.  Or the same, repeated, "Beach AJL" designation appearing on all the general aviation Beach Baron aircraft.  Traffic X fails miserably in this area.  It's randomisation is pathetic. Traffic X excels in many areas, but the randomisation of tail numbers is not one of them.

The Traffic X Service Pack 1 apparently improved the randomisation of aircraft tail numbers.  But, to be honest, I saw no improvement at all after applying the Service Pack.

FSX ATC, thankfully, conforms to the correct way of talking to the aircraft.  So, even though the tail numbers applied by Traffic X are not very random, ATC does talk to airliner aircraft as "Speed Bird 468" ... so, for airliners, you don't need to concern yourself with the non-random tail number.  You never really hear it used.  And even if the designations are incorrect, maybe "G-xxxx" incorrectly being used for a North American airline, it isn't such a big deal because you don't hear it from ATC.  So, for airliners, errors are only really noticable on the right-click Traffic list menu in FSX.  Unfortunately, the same "ignorance is bliss" scenario is not true for the general aviation planes.  When FSX ATC talks to those, you will hear "Beach Alpha Juliet Lima" (ATC correctly calls the GA aircraft using the tail number).  But, because the tail numbers for GA aircraft are not very random with Traffic X, you might hear "Beach Alpha Juliet Lima", "Beach Alpha Juliet Lima", "Beach Alpha Juliet Lima" over and over from the FSX ATC even though ATC is talking to DIFFERENT GA planes in your skies.  If the general aviation plane has a flight number (maybe it is flying IFR) then that is good though, because you will hear "Beach 169" (169 being the flight number) and the randomness of the flight numbers does seem to be OK with Traffic X (maybe that is what they were talking about with the Service Pack).
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Chuck Morse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chuck Morse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 2:29am
I would just like to add a little bit to Freddy's very excellent post.  FSX ATC will identify aircraft in only one of two ways.  The first, used most often with commercial aircraft, is by callsign and flight number.  The second, used most often for GA aircraft, is by aircraft type and tail number.  You should never hear ATC identify an aircraft with other combinations.  The decision on which form to use is based on a field in the flight plan itself.  If the flightplan calls for identification by flight number then FSX will obtain the callsign from the aircraft.cfg file and use the flight number specified in the flightplan.  If the flightplan calls for identification by tail number then FSX will obtain the aircraft type from the aircraft.cfg file and the tail number from the flightplan. 
Chuck Morse
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freddy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 7:25am
And now following Chuck's post, as if to further complicate things ...
 
When it comes to spoken FSX ATC calls, the settings inside aircraft.cfg files only get used by FSX depending on certain circumstances and conditions.  Most often as a fall-back where no other overriding settings exist for the particular aircraft in question.  The settings for each plane in Traffic X's flight plans will (usually) therefore take precedence over the fall-back details in the aircraft.cfg files.
 
OK, with that in mind ... talking about general aviation planes ... if you use Traffic X's Traffic Control Centre (TCC) and look at the general aviation flight plans, the planes set as "IFR" will be called by ATC as "Beach 864" (using the IFR flight number)** and the planes set as "VFR" will be called by ATC as "Beach Alpha Juliet Lima" or whatever their so called randomly assigned tail number is set to (which as we know, with Traffic X, is not really all that random at all).
 
So, when it comes to hearing the spoken calls by FSX ATC, it is Traffic X's VFR planes that are the problem here ... you will always hear "Beach Alpha Juliet Lima", "Beach Alpha Juliet Lima", "Beach Alpha Juliet Lima", repeated over and over. 
 
It follows that spoken FSX ATC calls for airliners are not a problem because they should all be set by Traffic X as IFR flights.  And, it has been established that Traffic X does appear to randomise the IFR flight numbers; it's the tail numbers which it doesn't do well.  So, for those, you hear "Speed Bird 468" (468 being the flight number). 
 
However, despite what you hear from FSX ATC, the fact remains with Traffic X that the right-click traffic list shown by FSX obviously and annoyingly still displays lists of the same, repeated, extremely non-random, tail numbers.  Grrr!  And that is of course, regardless of whether the planes are flying IFR or VFR.
 
 
** Note that if a plane is set in Traffic X as IFR but has no flight number assigned to it, then it will be referred to by FSX ATC as 0 ("zero").
 
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forzamo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote forzamo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2011 at 6:18pm
Thank you very much for clearing this up! I really appreciate all the info you guys have given me, and I completely understand. I did notice that when the AI aircraft are talking to ATC, the callsigns are correct. I definitely didn't realize that in the right-click menu that those are the tail numbers.

Again thank you guys, now I can stop thinking there is something wrong with my FSX!
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freddy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2011 at 11:45pm
I am sure I speak for Chuck as well when I say, "Glad to have helped".
 
I know what it is like when you think there is a problem with your setup ... it can put a thorn in you that keeps nagging away.  But it is good to finally discover the reasons behind what is going on and whether or not there is an actual problem with the setup (and even better to discover that what you are seeing is NOT due to your setup).
 
Traffic X does have a few issues here and there, the tail number issue being an example, but I am sure other packages have their own quirks and issues as well.  But, issues aside, Traffic X is certainly a great addition to FSX.
 
Happy flying.
 
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