Tornado Launched

Strange that the superior Eurofighter does nothing but attend airshows, do PR and fly around not doing much.

Why isn't it out along side, or instead of, Tornado? It's supposed to be more capable? I don't think a Eurofighter anywhere has dropped or fired anything in anger?

Apparently Tranche 2 is a weapons computer upgrade, but for some inexplicable reason requires a whole new airframe and we are going to scrap it?

Is the weapons system the reason it hasn't seen action yet? i.e. it doesn't work, isn't installed, or isn't capable? I'll bet by the end of the Libyan deal it still won't have shot or killed anything - just flown around a bit.

Don't forget who was in power when it was ordered, either.

I just read several articles, whilst trying to find out if it ever fired anything in its life, that it is supposed to be stealth? Whatever! I hear its RCS rivals a 747 from the front... It doesn't even have a gun because the weight was an issue...

It must rank as one of the worst MoD procurements ever, and must be up there with the cancellation of TSR2.

Why didn't we just go buy Rafale, or better yet, the F-16? We are supposed to be so buddy-buddy with the US, maybe they'd give us US spec aircraft and not the export version?

Best regards,
Vulcan.

VulcanB2 wrote: Strange that the superior Eurofighter does nothing but attend airshows, do PR and fly around not doing much. Why isn't it out along side, or instead of, Tornado?

You must've blinked. It is - the deployment of the Typhoon was covered live on the news yesterday from Coningsby.

At an early stage, using stand off weapons and cruise missiles, for which we have the proven GR4 and submarines, there isn't necessarily a need for Typhoon or other (primarily) air to air assets.

I'm not sure but I think the main difference in ground support is that the Tornado has the 27mm guns whereas the Typhoon doen't have any guns.  My source is Wiki but I'm not sure how much you can rely on what you find on Wiki.

allardjd wrote: I state this as a question, not a fact...   Doesn't the Tornado have a more flexible air-ground capability than the Typhoon?

John,

Yes your right, the Tornado is far more capable than an unproven Typhoon in air-ground.  Infact, the Tornado is one of the best strike platforms in the world - also I dont think the Typhoon is cleared to launch Storm Shadows yet - but I may be wrong about this.

Not sure if the crux of this discussion has turned to Typhoon-bashing or if it's an intelligent discussion of the assets being used in Libya.  Assuming the latter, I don't think radar cross section is going to be much of an issue for very long in that theatre, if at all.  If it goes anything like it did in the protracted no-fly situation in Iraq, anything that emanates a search or lock signal is going to get a guided weapon headed its way pretty quickly.

Low RCS is mainly important when facing a robust, effective AA capability and/or when air supremacy has not been established.  Barring that, it really doesn't mean all that much.  It's never a bad thing to have, but isn't always vital either.

 

I think it's just more Vulcan style entertainment John. I especially like the cross section of a 747 bit.

This incident is sounding more and more like the Suez Crisis all over again, only this time we havn't got any carriers, Royal Navy strike aircraft or Canberra bombers. The only reason we finished up with Typhoon was because we would have incurred massive penalties for pulling out of the programme once we had committed to it. There are many, myself included, who think we should have gone for the F16 or F18 when they first became availiable, We could even have got the Saab Gripen which was being marketed by BAe at the time with a view to licence production. Currently one of the best aircraft in the Libyan ToO at the moment is the Rafale which is A, very much a current superfighter and B, CAN operate in both A2A and GA roles with equal ease. Typhoon is good, but its not as good as the RAF had hoped. It is however still better than the Tornado F3 which was always a compromise.

allardjd wrote: ...we havn't got any carriers... Your friends do.  So do the French.

Surely a contender for post of the day

I am missing the point slightly (sometimes do!) but surely laser-guided bombs *should* be able to hit Gadaffi's compound with minimum/no civilian loss.Is it just a too greater risk?